Is Baptism an Ordinance or Command?

[Corn Pop]

Do you follow Jesus advice?. Read the version scriptures. Theres a stumbling block.

Revelation 1:3
"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

The time is at hand or the time is near.

Its the full revealing of Jesus Christ. The revelation of Christ, the Alpha and the Omega.

Half the versions say time is at hand and the other half say the time is near. Jesus warned about anyone who prophecies in his name saying the" time is near " and do not follow them.

"Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"

 

[Corn Pop]

The book of Revelation is the full revealing of Jesus Christ, but many Christians don't believe in Christ, they don't want Christs revealing, Christ revealing himself in his full glory but they deny Christ and dont believe he is yet glorified, and are decieved by thinking 'the time is near' and waiting for his return why following the commandments.

The very last chapter in the book of Revelation.

Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is at hand.


"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

Do people think the Spirit and the Bride say come in the future, the new heaven and earth is in the future. The time is now.


The great and dreadful day has ended, there is no more judgement. By Jesus Christ we are now all declared innocent. He took away the sin of the world. He was successful, but some people don't believe Christ.

The judge is powerless. The Father does not Judge and gave Christ all authority, and Christ cannot judge anyone because there is no sin or law for him to judge against.

People still think some God out there is judging them if they don't obey any of the commandments. If they stumble they feel guilty, convicted, still under there master the Serpant, there following the anti-christ.

If anyone feels guilty and convicted by the law/commandments of God, they dont have Christ and they dont know Christ because they dont believe in his works, they dont believe what he come to accomplish, in fact he died in vain.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The book of Revelation is the full revealing of Jesus Christ, but many Christians don't believe in Christ, they don't want Christs revealing, Christ revealing himself in his full glory but they deny Christ and dont believe he is yet glorified, and are decieved by thinking 'the time is near' and waiting for his return why following the commandments.

The very last chapter in the book of Revelation.

Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is at hand.


"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

Do people think the Spirit and the Bride say come in the future, the new heaven and earth is in the future. The time is now.


The great and dreadful day has ended, there is no more judgement. By Jesus Christ we are now all declared innocent. He took away the sin of the world. He was successful, but some people don't believe Christ.

The judge is powerless. The Father does not Judge and gave Christ all authority, and Christ cannot judge anyone because there is no sin or law for him to judge against.

People still think some God out there is judging them if they don't obey any of the commandments. If they stumble they feel guilty, convicted, still under there master the Serpant, there following the anti-christ.

If anyone feels guilty and convicted by the law/commandments of God, they dont have Christ and they dont know Christ because they dont believe in his works, they dont believe what he come to accomplish, in fact he died in vain.

May I ask who has influenced you in this line of thinking?

 

[Corn Pop]

May I ask who has influenced you in this line of thinking?

The bible and Christs teachings. Its just what scripture says. No one influenced me. Its just what the parables say.

Its an undeniable fact that whoever truely believes in Christ and his works have overcome. How else can someone overcome.

Are people going to keep believing there whole life they have not overcome. Christ says who has overcome o give the right to sit on my throne, i will give the hiden manna, and so on.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The bible and Christs teachings. Its just what scripture says. No one influenced me. Its just what the parables say.

Are people going to keep believing there whole life they have not overcome. Christ says who has overcome o give the right to sit on my throne.

Your interpretation.
No one to question you.
Therefore you are right, no matter what.
Is that what you are saying?
Jim Jones use to preach that way.

 

[Corn Pop]

Your interpretation.
No one to question you.
Therefore you are right, no matter what.
Is that what you are saying?
Jim Jones use to preach that way.

Not my interpretation, its what Jesus says.

 

[Nathan]

It's called universalism.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/universalism.html

Dangerous thought process. It's the belief that all are saved, although they might not know it yet. Since everyone is already saved, then the commandments of God are no longer needed - whether you think they are good or bad.

 

[JLB]

Not my interpretation, its what Jesus says.

Here's what Jesus says.

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:6-8

 

[Corn Pop]

People don't believe in Christ. They follow doctrine of the bible and not the truth.

 

[civilwarbuff]

People don't believe in Christ. They follow doctrine of the bible and not the truth.

Then they are not Christians; a Christian is a follower of Christ. The Bible is our guide not our god.......

 

[Corn Pop]

Then they are not Christians; a Christian is a follower of Christ. The Bible is our guide not our god.......

So why does everyone follow the letter and doctrine of the bible?. I mean, where has the bible lead Christians?. Many dont believe in Christ because they dont believe Christ fullfilled all things, they are waiting for a return and believing they are saved and doing good works and the world is full of sinners.

 

[civilwarbuff]

So why does everyone follow the letter and doctrine of the bible?. I mean, where has the bible lead Christians?. Many dont believe in Christ because they dont believe Christ fullfilled all things, they are waiting for a return and believing they are saved and doing good works and the world is full of sinners.

What doctrine(s) in the Bible do you feel we should not be following and why? If the Bible does not give a person a better understanding of who and what a Christian is/should be then they are reading it incorrectly or without the Holy Spirit guiding them. Just because a person calls themself Christian does not mean they are......
1 Corinthians 2
14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[stovebolts]

It's called universalism.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/universalism.html

Dangerous thought process. It's the belief that all are saved, although they might not know it yet. Since everyone is already saved, then the commandments of God are no longer needed - whether you think they are good or bad.

That's an interesting interpretation on universalism.
Just as there are many sects of muslims, there are many sects of Christianity.
Let's take what close to us. Christianity contains 2 major lines of thinking. Catholic and Protestant.
If you dwell down on either lines, you will find great diversity within each camp.

I knew a universalist here who did not fit in your description. Paul even said that if you keep on sinning so grace may abound, your condemnation is deserved.

There are even universalists who believe you can go to hell, but it is only temporal.

 

[stovebolts]

Not my interpretation, its what Jesus says.

Everything that enters your mind must be interpreted. Our own bias plays a huge role in how we interpret what comes in, as does life experience and yes, even culture.

Have you ever misunderstood another? If so, were you willing to admit you misunderstood them? Or do you insist that you understood them clearly and it was they that shifted position?

Jesus does not shift, but because we live with different influences in our life, such as culture etc, it is easy to misunderstand what Jesus is saying.

 

[Nathan]

That's an interesting interpretation on universalism.
Just as there are many sects of muslims, there are many sects of Christianity.
Let's take what close to us. Christianity contains 2 major lines of thinking. Catholic and Protestant.
If you dwell down on either lines, you will find great diversity within each camp.

I knew a universalist here who did not fit in your description. Paul even said that if you keep on sinning so grace may abound, your condemnation is deserved.

There are even universalists who believe you can go to hell, but it is only temporal.

I agree that there are different 'types' of universalism, but the main parts are the same.

There may be many sects of Christianity, but there can only be one true path. Where as, there are 'many' paths that are not the true one.

Something that is pure has to be 100% pure. But something that is unpure can be anywhere between 1% and 99.99%

I believe that what is being presented might have 'some' truth in it, but the rest is false and therefore unpure doctrine. The thing about a little poision is that it is slow to kill - but it does kill. The NT teaches that just a little leaven will corrupt the whole lump.

 

[stovebolts]

I agree that there are different 'types' of universalism, but the main parts are the same.

There may be many sects of Christianity, but there can only be one true path. Where as, there are 'many' paths that are not the true one.

Something that is pure has to be 100% pure. But something that is unpure can be anywhere between 1% and 99.99%

.

I'd caution you in this area... I know some folks that purify their doctrines so fine that if you don't believe like us, your not part of the true church. And sinse your not part of the true church, your not a brother, or your an apostate. Some even go as far as to say if you've not been baptized, your not saved.

Ill admit that I don't have Christianity nailed... and honestly I get the idea from scripture that to nail it down, means to set it free. About the best you or I can do is show love for each other ( 1 cor 13)

So it doesn't matter too much if somebody is preaching for their own gain because the gospel is getting preached. And it doesn't matter too much if somebody believes in annihilation, universalism or eternal torment. What matters is we show each other love, because that's how the world will know we are true deciples.

That being said, we can speak the truth in love, and we should. And this is a reminder more to myself than others.

 

[Nathan]

I'd caution you in this area... I know some folks that purify their doctrines so fine that if you don't believe like us, your not part of the true church. And sinse your not part of the true church, your not a brother, or your an apostate. Some even go as far as to say if you've not been baptized, your not saved.

Ill admit that I don't have Christianity nailed... and honestly I get the idea from scripture that to nail it down, means to set it free. About the best you or I can do is show love for each other ( 1 cor 13)

So it doesn't matter too much if somebody is preaching for their own gain because the gospel is getting preached. And it doesn't matter too much if somebody believes in annihilation, universalism or eternal torment. What matters is we show each other love, because that's how the world will know we are true deciples.

That being said, we can speak the truth in love, and we should. And this is a reminder more to myself than others.

I agree SB. We must do all things in love. I will never tell someone they are not apart of the body of Christ unless I know they are truly outside of it. I see what goes on around here, and what has happened to me, enough times to understand that taken too far a person becomes 'puffed up'.

In that, I am sure of the faith and will always contend for it when I see great error - even when I see small error. Paul did the same and Jude urged us to also. There is a difference between preaching the Gospel and preaching error in the faith.

The thing with our friend here, is that his thoughts are outside of what the faith is. I cannot say that it means he is without Christ - I have no knowledge of that. But to say that all mankind will be saved - regardless of if they have faith - is not only against the faith, it is misrepresenting God's justice.

God sacrificed His only Son. His only perfect Son. He did not do it so that mankind could do what they want - and end up with eternal life in the end. I cannot even begin to imagine the pain and suffering, not physical, but emotional, that Christ went through on the cross when the Father had to turn His back on Jesus. For what? So that we would know and believe.

Universalism goes beyond just being 'weird'. Were not talking about the color of the carpet, or the songs we sing - we are talking about the centrality of the Christian faith - Christs death on the cross, His resurrection, and His coming again. Outside of those faith issues I am a 'whatever' kind of guy.

 

[Corn Pop]

Everything that enters your mind must be interpreted. Our own bias plays a huge role in how we interpret what comes in, as does life experience and yes, even culture.

Have you ever misunderstood another? If so, were you willing to admit you misunderstood them? Or do you insist that you understood them clearly and it was they that shifted position?

Jesus does not shift, but because we live with different influences in our life, such as culture etc, it is easy to misunderstand what Jesus is saying.

I make sure everything is backed up by scripture. Not often is it my own interpretation. Scripture has to fit with scripture. But I post scriptures and people still don't believe it because they follow doctrine not the truth. That is why there is thousands of doctrines out there and debate. People follow doctrine not Christ.

 

[Nathan]

I make sure everything is backed up by scripture. Not often is it my own interpretation. Scripture has to fit with scripture. But I post scriptures and people still don't believe it because they follow doctrine not the truth. That is why there is thousands of doctrines out there and debate. People follow doctrine not Christ.

What do you think of Paul when he desired the church to follow his doctrine? Doctrine just meaning a teaching of the faith.

 

[Corn Pop]

What do you think of Paul when he desired the church to follow his doctrine? Doctrine just meaning a teaching of the faith.

Paul just preached the Gospel, Christ crucified, but people start following him. He was not Christ or knew everything. He did not give the revelation of Christ, he was just one part in the body of Christ who preached the Gospel.