Is Baptism an Ordinance or Command?

[Corn Pop]

I'm still not understanding if you think it's good or bad? It can't be good and bad right? Gods command to Adam had to be good or bad, not both. So what do you believe? If you don't want to answer that's fine.

Do you believe God is a tyrant?. A master who must be served, obeyed, worshipped. Do you believe God is a feirce judge and exalts himself above humanity?.

Can you see the rainbow and read the parable underneath the ink?.

 

[Corn Pop]

Who has faith in Christ

John 3:16

Hebrews 2:14

Do you believe you have to put on your armor and fight the devil?, or do you believe in Christs works that the devil is destroyed?

Hebrews 9:26

Revelation 21:5

Mark 1:15

Colossians 2:14

Romans 10:4

Romans 5:13

Hebrews 8:7

Hebrews 8:13

Hebrews 8:10 (Spiritual law/Love)

Matthew 11:15

 

[Nathan]

Do you believe God is a tyrant?. A master who must be served, obeyed, worshipped. Do you believe God is a feirce judge and exalts himself above humanity?.

Can you see the rainbow and read the parable underneath the ink?.

I'll answer your questions if you answer mine.

I do find it odd that you cannot say whether God's command to Adam was either good or bad. I have never met anyone who would not answer it one way or the other. Very interesting to me it is.

 

[stovebolts]

I'll answer your questions if you answer mine.

I do find it odd that you cannot say whether God's command to Adam was either good or bad. I have never met anyone who would not answer it one way or the other. Very interesting to me it is.

He is feeling you out.
If you say no, God is not a tyrant, then the command was good, as it was from a loving God who cared for his creation.
If you say God was a wrathful God, then the command was bad, for it would have served to inflict punishment from a tyrant dictator who sees his creation as a means to bolster himself with little to no regard for his creation.

The issue isnt, "was this a good or bad commandment". I believe he is trying to show you that there are no bad commandments... thus, your question lacked an understanding of the very essence of who God is, and why he created us. If not you, it was an attempt for you to expose a possible weakness in his understanding.

And so the games continue...

 

[Nathan]

He is feeling you out.
If you say no, God is not a tyrant, then the command was good, as it was from a loving God who cared for his creation.
If you say God was a wrathful God, then the command was bad, for it would have served to inflict punishment from a tyrant dictator who sees his creation as a means to bolster himself with little to no regard for his creation.

The issue isnt, "was this a good or bad commandment". I believe he is trying to show you that there are no bad commandments... thus, your question lacked an understanding of the very essence of who God is, and why he created us. If not you, it was an attempt for you to expose a possible weakness in his understanding.

And so the games continue...

Interesting. I would find it so much easier to say "the commandment is good" or "the commandment is bad" - rather than a whole bunch of other stuff. If I were asked the question. I would answer it straight forward. Its not a trick question at all. Very open.

I am trying to be careful in my approach to understanding him. I think that you have known him longer than I, so you probably know that its very difficult to get a straight answer with single questions, much less with a whole post full.

So, I was simply asking a singular question so I can make an assessment of the situation. Its not to expose weakness for the cause of harm, but rather expose the infection for the sake of cleaning. Some look to harm others, while others look to help.

 

[Corn Pop]

Interesting. I would find it so much easier to say "the commandment is good" or "the commandment is bad" - rather than a whole bunch of other stuff. If I were asked the question. I would answer it straight forward. Its not a trick question at all. Very open.

I am trying to be careful in my approach to understanding him. I think that you have known him longer than I, so you probably know that its very difficult to get a straight answer with single questions, much less with a whole post full.

So, I was simply asking a singular question so I can make an assessment of the situation. Its not to expose weakness for the cause of harm, but rather expose the infection for the sake of cleaning. Some look to harm others, while others look to help.

Its just what it is. Its good for God but not good for man, but it was needed to teach man, but its a curse. The law and commandment is the Serpant. As Moses raised the serpant, a serpant bites and it heals. blessings and curses, good and evil, light and darkness. As soon as the first commandment come dont eat from the tree Adam had the knowledge of good and evil. If God didn't say that he would not have had the knowledge of what is right and what is wrong.

The true God is behind the commandments but people keep looking up to the commandments and worshiping the serpant, the god who exalts himself above humanity and demands people serve him and worship him, and obey his commands.

Christ raises people up to sit on thrones with God.

 

[Nathan]

Its just what it is. Its good for God but not good for man, but it was needed to teach man, but its a curse. The law and commandment is the Serpant. As Moses raised the serpant, a serpant bites and it heals. blessings and curses, good and evil, light and darkness. As soon as the first commandment come dont eat from the tree Adam had the knowledge of good and evil. If God didn't say that he would not have had the knowledge of what is right and what is wrong.

The true God is behind the commandments but people keep looking up to the commandments.

I would say that something cannot be good and evil. You cannot have something that is pure, if it is not 100% pure. So if you have something that is 99.999% good - it is therefore .001% evil. Making it, unpure.

God's commands are either good or bad. They cannot be both.

 

[Corn Pop]

The are Holy but man does not need them if they have faith in Christ because Christ raises people up to sit on thrones with him. Christ raises people up, he does not exalt himself above anyone.

People need to let Christ reveal himself. Christ is inside man but man keeps a veil over him and keeps worshipping the commandments, and a god and a image of christ who exalts himself over humanity, and wont let Christ reveal himself in his full glory.

Thats Christ. Come sit with me on my throne, i will walk with you and you walk with me.

God dwells with his people.

Praise the Lord. Faith in Christ. Sit on his throne with him, some people afraid to sit on Christs throne with him hes too Holy, afraid of Christ because the commandments are the stumbling block. No faith. Christ says come I give freely.

"To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne."

If one has true belief in Christ they are victorious.


"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you."

People don't believe in Christ, they are still waiting for him to be glorified.

Christ died in vain to alot of people.

 

[stovebolts]

Interesting. I would find it so much easier to say "the commandment is good" or "the commandment is bad" - rather than a whole bunch of other stuff. If I were asked the question. I would answer it straight forward. Its not a trick question at all. Very open.

I am trying to be careful in my approach to understanding him. I think that you have known him longer than I, so you probably know that its very difficult to get a straight answer with single questions, much less with a whole post full.

So, I was simply asking a singular question so I can make an assessment of the situation. Its not to expose weakness for the cause of harm, but rather expose the infection for the sake of cleaning. Some look to harm others, while others look to help.

I understand.
I also know jockeying for the upper hand, ascto drive the conversation when I see it... and as an observation, I see it on both sides.

If you wish to clean, may I suggest leading through following, and don't try to be right. Seeds are planted, but God causes the increase...

 

[Corn Pop]

No one loses in the end. Many people just follow the Serpant, walk in the fire, until they have been refined and the man of sin is revealed and taken out he way and Christ opens the gates with the breath if his mouth, and they understand the true full revelation of Christ.

Baptised into Jesus death, walk through the fire of hell, the belly of the whale, the wilderness, trials and tribulation, babylon, refined, Christ opens the gates.

People are either looking up to God from below serving, worshipping, obeying, and following his commandments, or sitting on thrones with him above and have faith in Christ that he is glorified and raises people up to his throne and they dwell with God and God with them. No need to serve and obey and follow any commandment from God.

How can someone say ' i know christ' if they don't believe he is glorified, and are seperated from Christ waiting for his return. Thats makes everyone a false prophet.

"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you."

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


Where is iniquity found.

"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."


Christ is that Spirit and where the Spirit is there is Liberty.

 

[Corn Pop]

Who believes Christ?

"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you."

He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

[Nathan]

Who believes Christ?

"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you."

He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Do you believe Christ is going to come again, in the flesh? As in actually physically going to see Him with our physical eyes?

 

[Corn Pop]

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

"For Christ also suffered once for sins the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit."

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

 

[Corn Pop]

Do you believe Christ is going to come again, in the flesh? As in actually physically going to see Him with our physical eyes?

I think his return is raising people up in Spirit. I dont think he is going to literally going to come flying down from heaven like superman and land in Jerusalem.

As the world gets darker the light gets brighter.


"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Matthew 24:40-42

 

[Nathan]

I think his return is raising people up in Spirit. I dont think he is going to literally going to come flying down from heaven like superman and land in Jerusalem.

As the world gets darker the light gets brighter.


"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Matthew 24:40-42

Interesting. Do you believe this world(earth) is just going to keep on going forever?

 

[Corn Pop]

Interesting. Do you believe this world(earth) is just going to keep on going forever?

I believe earth will fade away.

Remember Christ said his Kingdom is not of this world, so i believe he will not return and rule on this earth, but people can walk in his Kingdom, the new heaven and earth now while on this earth. His Kingdom is Spiritual and as he said not of this world.

"In the world not of the world."


"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

People get stuck with Paul and can't see past him, its all Paul, Paul, paul, but he is not the Alpha and the Omega. The full revelation of Christ has been revealed.

 

[Corn Pop]

Many like to follow doctrine in the bible and the letter, but its also contrary to what Jesus taught.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Mankind had to be taught and learn right?.

Hi kiwidan, It is claimed by men that you can not legislate righteousness, which is another lie by Satan and his minions. But that was the whole purpose of the law, to condemn sin in sinful man. For with out the Law, man had no guilt, but did as he pleased (Gen. 6:5-7) (Rom. 5:13, 20) (Rom. 6:7-14)

 

[Corn Pop]

There is alot of doctrine but Christ fullfilled everything. As Elijah come saying the time is fullfilled the Kingdom is at hand.

"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John."

Christ said not one jot of the law will pass away until all things are fullfilled, and the law failed, the book and the Law failed at that moment on the cross, and Christ fullfilled it, it is finished, the old heaven and earth passed away and he usher a new heaven and earth, new covenant, there was a great earthquake, the veil was torn, and all sorts of things.

"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you."

The great and dreadful day has ended, there is no more judgement. By Jesus Christ we are now all declared innocent. He took away the sin of the world. He was successful, but some people don't believe Christ.

The judge is powerless. Christ wont judge because there is no sin or law to judge against.

The Father judge not but give judgement and all authority to Christ.

Praise the Lord. Shout for joy. Praise God.

"To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne."

"Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it."

"The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life."

 

[Nathan]

There is alot of doctrine but Christ fullfilled everything. As Elijah come saying the time is fullfilled the Kingdom is at hand.

"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John."

Christ said not one jot of the law will pass away until all things are fullfilled, and the law failed, the book and the Law failed at that moment on the cross, and Christ fullfilled it, it is finished, the old heaven and earth passed away and he usher a new heaven and earth, new covenant, there was a great earthquake, the veil was torn, and all sorts of things.

The great and dreadful day has ended, there is no more judgement. By Jesus Christ we are now all declared innocent. He took away the sin of the world. He was successful, but some people don't believe Christ.

The judge is powerless. Christ wont judge because there is no sin or law to judge against.

The Father judge not but give judgement and all authority to Christ.

Praise the Lord. Shout for joy. Praise God.

Christ says come I give freely. Who is victorious come sit on my throne.

So do you think that all of Jesus followers were crazy or insane for thinking the judgement was still to come?

John, the one that Jesus loved, wrote the book of Revelation many years after Christ had died. At the beginning he writes;

Rev 1:1-6
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
6 and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.