You're PLAINLY contradicting Paul. The law IS the righteousness of God (for that's how he condemns the world as unrighteous). But you say a man can only be justified by doing God's righteousness.
Not me but Paul said "
a man can only be justified by doing God's righteousness" in Rom 10:3 when Paul said the Jews were lost for they "
have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God".
Paul says the exact thing you accuse him of not saying.
Blueletterbible defines "submitted" (
hypotassō) as:
1) to arrange under, to subordinate
2) to subject, put in subjection
3) to subject one's self, obey
4) to submit to one's control
5) to yield to one's admonition or advice
6) to obey, be subject
So it carries the idea of obedience. Obedience to what? Righteousness of God. What is the righteousness of God?
Psa 119:172 "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for
all thy commandments [are] righteousness."
So the Jews were lost but could be saved if they would just obey the commandments of God. SO obeying God's commandments is equivalent to working God's righteousness. As Paul said in Rom 6;16 "obedience unto righteousness"
So in Rom 3:10 Paul is
CONTRASTING "
going about to establish their own righteousness"
FROM "
submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God". So Paul is CONTRASTING works of merit FROM obedience to God's commandments. SO works of merit are completely different type of work than obedience unto God's righteous commands.
So nowhere ever as in Rom 4:5 did Paul exclude the work of submitting to God's righteous commandments from salvation which he
INCLUDED in Rom 10:3 and other passages. Since Paul was inspired and did not contradict himself then it is the faith only corwd creating the contradiction within Paul's writing when they try and exclude the work of submitting to God's righteousness in Rom 4:5 and anywhere else. This is too simple one would have to make effort not to understand it.
Jethro Bodine said:
...or before, or after...as both the Bible, and believer's testimonies confirm.
and the new birth/water baptism is for the remission of sins, Acts 2:38 meaning one has nothad his sins remitted/washed away in the blood of Christ till he has been water baptized.
The order of Mark 16:16 is belief is BEFORE baptism and baptism is BEFORE saved Jesus never said "he that beliveth only is saved and can be baptized later as a sign he was saved" Faith only theology utilates Mk 16:16.
Lastly, Peter said in Acts 2:41 "
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls."
So only those hearers that gladly received Peter's words (obeyed verse 38) were baptized and put into a saved position with the apostles in the church. Being baptized is the same as gladly receiving the gospel word.
Those hearers that were not baptized were rejecting the gospel word. So Luke's words of verse 41 implies
one is rejecting the gospel word and has not received it until he has been baptized.
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48130&page=1
Therefore faith is said to be a work because a saving faith
must, with no exceptions include repentance, confessing with the mouth and baptism. Unless anyone is willing to argue one living under Christ's NT can be saved unrepentant, be saved while continuing to deny Christ, be saved while still lost in his unremitted sins.
Jethro Bodine said:
No, it plainly says the agent of washing that regenerates and renews in Titus 3:5 is the Holy Spirit. You have to add to the passage to make it say water baptism is what renews and regenerates. Water doesn't have an ounce of regenerating power.
Rev 1:5 "
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"
It's the blood of Christ that washes away ones sins. And baptism is where sins are remitted or washed away. So logically and scripturally, Rom 6:3-7, water baptism is the only place that Christ's blood washes away sins. NO verse says one sins are washed away at the moment of faith only or when saying a sinners prayer.
You are ignoring "water" in Jn 3:5 and "washing" in Tts 3:5.
Jn 3:5-----------Spirit++++++++++++++
water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
Tts 3:5--------Holy Ghost++++++++
washing of reg.>>>>>>>>>>>>saved
1Cor12:13------Spirit+++++++++++++
baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>inthe body
All three verses say the same thing, they are all equvalent for there is just one way to be "saved", be "in the kingdom" be "in the body".
Water - washing of regeneration - baptized all refer to the role of water baptism has in salvation.
The Holy Spirit's role in one's salvation is His written word, the "engrated word that is able to save your souls". 1 Pet 1:23 "
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. " - Born again by the word of God. THe Holy Spirit authored the word that tells one how to be saved upon hearing that word. The Holy Spirit through His word tells one to be saved he must believe, repent, confess and be baptized.
Jethro Bdine said:
We know this. Where you err is trying to impress on believers that the work produced by faith is the actual agent of justification. That's nothing more than the Judaizer's argument which Paul says is damnable. For them, the act of circumcision was the compliance with the requirements of God that put you into the kingdom. For the church today it's believed by some that water baptism is the compliance with God that puts one into the kingdom, not knowing it no more does that than being circumcised could do that.
As it was for Abraham in regard to his circumcision, so it is for us in regard to water baptism--it is the FAITH that one has before they submit to water baptism that reckons one as righteous in God's sight. And like circumcision, water baptism really doesn't prove anything about whether the baptized person has saving faith or not. 'Love your neighbor as yourself' does that. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, and James all say this. Yet so many in the church cling to the false confidence of ceremonial procedures, even if they are indeed very much commanded by God.
You posted "
Where you err is trying to impress on believers that the work produced by faith is the actual agent of justification."
James said "Was not Abraham our father
justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"
"Ye see then how that
by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
So James said works justify. Works are said to justify for God has said He will justify those that obey Him, so in that sense works justify.
Just as Peter and Paul both said "save yourselves/thyself", did they mean one can save himself by himself? No, God has said He will save those that obey, Heb 5:9 so in that sense those that choose to obey are saving themselves.
1 Pet 3:21 Peter said baptism saves. But did he mean baptism alone and not God saves? No, for God saves those that have been baptized so in that sense baptism saves.
Jethro Bodine said:
We know this, but there you go confusing Paul's and James' arguments again. Only a faith that can be seen in a changed life can save, but it's still the faith, all by itself, that gives right standing before God.
Never did Paul or James say "faith only" saves. Again, in Rom 10:3 Paul said the Jews were lost for they did not have faith only? No, they were lost for they had not obeyed GOd's commandments.
