Is belief "works"?

[savedbygrace57]

Your faith only theology has put in in a position where you cannot or simply refuse to answer a simple question Paul asked in Rom 6:16. I have no trouble answering the question, why do you? Your not anwsering is very telling, You may want to start rethinking your theology. Rom 5:19 has nothing to do with you not answering a simple questions...it's diversion from having to answer that question.

You have avoided this witness of scripture (edited) by staff

Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

You deny that and attribute it to the obedience of Two, Christ and the one being made Righteous !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

eb



Yes Many does refer to the same People both times and No I am not a Universalist ! So my Point prevails because the many in both instances were made sinners and made Righteous apart from their own disobedience and Obedience but by ONE ! That proves your phiosophy in error !

So you are saying many were made sinners unconditionally and not by their own choice in being disobedient. If that is true, then the implicaton is that same many will be made righteous unconditionally and that is Universalism. For Paul in Rom 3 said "all have sinned" and you say they were all made sinners unconditionally. Yet that same all then will be made righteous unconditonally and there is your Universalism.
For Paul has an if-then type statement - if A is true then B is also true...so if it's true many were made sinners unconditionally, then it's also true that same many will be made righteous unconditionally.

But again, nowhere did Paul ever say many were made sinners or made righeous uncondtionally apart from their own will but some people assume that into the context.


So, ready to answer if you serve sin unto death or obedience unto rightoeusness?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You have avoided this witness of scripture (edited) by staff

Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

You deny that and attribute it to the obedience of Two, Christ and the one being made Righteous !

I have shown twice now that your interpretation of Rom 5:19 creates Universalism.

You have avoided answering Rom 6:16 - are you a servant of sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness?

Of course you will not say you are a servant of sin, but yet your faith only theology has ruled out you being a servant of obedience unto righteousness.....leaving you in a quandry that you are 'avoiding like the plague'.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So you are saying many were made sinners unconditionally and not by their own choice in being disobedient. If that is true, then the implicaton is that same many will be made righteous unconditionally and that is Universalism. For Paul in Rom 3 said "all have sinned" and you say they were all made sinners unconditionally. Yet that same all then will be made righteous unconditonally and there is your Universalism.
For Paul has an if-then type statement - if A is true then B is also true...so if it's true many were made sinners unconditionally, then it's also true that same many will be made righteous unconditionally.

But again, nowhere did Paul ever say many were made sinners or made righeous uncondtionally apart from their own will but some people assume that into the context.


So, ready to answer if you serve sin unto death or obedience unto rightoeusness?

Yes Many does refer to the same People both times and No I am not a Universalist ! So my Point prevails because the many in both instances were made sinners and made Righteous apart from their own disobedience and Obedience but by ONE ! That proves your phiosophy in error !

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...Paul said "a man can only be justified by doing God's righteousness" in Rom 10:3 when Paul said the Jews were lost for they "have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God".

You define the righteousness of God as the commandments of God, yet you agree that a man is not justified by the law????

So it carries the idea of obedience. Obedience to what? Righteousness of God. What is the righteousness of God?

Christ's righteousness.

Christ is the only one who is righteous on the basis of law. Not because the law made him righteous, but because he is utterly righteous and kept the law perfectly. It is his right standing with God, his righteousness, that we are given as a gift when we are included in his holy body through the forgiveness of sins.

Psa 119:172 "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness."

So the Jews were lost but could be saved if they would just obey the commandments of God. SO obeying God's commandments is equivalent to working God's righteousness.

Ah, I see, so a man IS justified by the law: Deuteronomy 6:25

It's funny because I'm sure you don't want to say this, but if you want to make the 'righteousness of God' obeying the commandments of God you have no choice but to mean that.

As Paul said in Rom 6;16 "obedience unto righteousness"

Did you forget? This is referring to the righteousness of one's literal behavioral (sanctification), not their legal declaration of right standing with God (justification). The passage plainly says that.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You define the righteousness of God as the commandments of God, yet you agree that a man is not justified by the law????



Christ's righteousness.

Christ is the only one who is righteous on the basis of law. Not because the law made him righteous, but because he is utterly righteous and kept the law perfectly. It is his right standing with God, his righteousness, that we are given as a gift when we are included in his holy body through the forgiveness of sins.

In your last post you said "But you say a man can only be justified by doing God's righteousness."

Here you say "You define the righteousness of God as the commandments of God."

You keep crediting me with things the bible says.


Paul said in Rom 10:3 the Jews were lost for they had not submitted to the righteousness of God.

Psa 119:172 says all God's commandments are righteousness.


So do not credit me for saying it just accept what the bible says about it.

---------------------------------

A man today is not justifed by keeping the OT law but is justified by keeping Christ's NT law/Christ's NT gospel.


Psa 119:172 "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness."


So when Paul said the Jews were lost for they had not submitted unto God's righteousness, they were lost for they would not obey God's commands, as Paul said in Rom 10:16 they 'have not all obeyed the gospel" and 2 Thess 1:8 God has vengeance upon those that OBEY NOT the gospel of Christ. The Jews were lost for they would not believe in their heart or confess with their mouth, that is, they would not call upon the name of the Lord/not obey the gospel.

Ah, I see, so a man IS justified by the law: Deuteronomy 6:25

It's funny because I'm sure you don't want to say this, but if you want to make the 'righteousness of God' obeying the commandments of God you have no choice but to mean that.

Where in Rom 10 did Paul say the Jews were lost for not keeping the OT law?

Christ took (permanently) the OT out of the way by nailing it to His cross, so men today are not justifed by keeping an inactive OT law but by keeping Christ's NT gospel.

Did you forget? This is referring to the righteousness of one's literal behavioral (sanctification), not their legal declaration of right standing with God (justification). The passage plainly says that.

Paul said of the Romans they "obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." It was their literal behavior (obeying from the heart) that brought about their being freed from sins (justification)


James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. " Behavior (works) do justify

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Yes Many does refer to the same People both times and No I am not a Universalist ! So my Point prevails because the many in both instances were made sinners and made Righteous apart from their own disobedience and Obedience but by ONE ! That proves your phiosophy in error !

But your interpretation of the verse brings about Universalism even if you do not believe in it. If many aremade sinners unconditionally then that same many will be made righteous unconditionally. How many are sinners? "All have sinned" so this same all will be unconditionally be made righteous and you have Universalism. Unless you want to argue only a select few were uncondtionally made sinners and that same select few will unconditionally be made righteous? (But Paul did not say this)

Again, so you serve sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally Posted By Ernest T. Bass,

".....the verse brings about Universalism even if you do not believe in it. If many are made sinners unconditionally then that same many will be made righteous unconditionally. How many are sinners? "All have sinned" so this same all will be unconditionally be made righteous and you have Universalism"

Praise God Ernest, you do understand the Gospel, and the enormous magnitude of Christ's work on the Cross! ;) Amen! God removed the blinders, even if it was only for a brief moment

 

[Jethro Bodine]

In your last post you said "But you say a man can only be justified by doing God's righteousness."

Here you say "You define the righteousness of God as the commandments of God."

You keep crediting me with things the bible says.

And if you fully understood what those things meant you'd stop insisting a man is justified (made righteous before God) by keeping the righteous requirements of God. No one can keep those requirements perfectly, therefore, no one can be justified that way.

Paul said in Rom 10:3 the Jews were lost for they had not submitted to the righteousness of God.

Psa 119:172 says all God's commandments are righteousness.


So do not credit me for saying it just accept what the bible says about it.

Look at the whole passage and stop not rightly dividing up the Word of God.

The righteousness they did not submit to is the righteousness that comes from God, not the righteousness of law which Paul says is "“The man who does these things will live by them.” (vs.5). Instead, the righteousness that comes from God, which can not possibly be the righteousness of obeying the commandments of God he is contrasting that righteousness with, is the righteousness that comes by faith in the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ. THAT is the righteousness they did not submit to. They don't believe in God's forgiveness in Christ and, therefore, only have the righteousness of law, the righteousness of perfect righteous behavior, to depend on, which Paul has already shown no one is capable of doing.

A man today is not justifed by keeping the OT law but is justified by keeping Christ's NT law/Christ's NT gospel.

But, sadly, you think the things you say comprise Christ's law are somehow not works of the law, but I showed you there are.

The obedience of faith is what is not in the law. The law of faith is what justifies, if you want to put it that way.

Psa 119:172 "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness."


So when Paul said the Jews were lost for they had not submitted unto God's righteousness, they were lost for they would not obey God's commands, as Paul said in Rom 10:16 they 'have not all obeyed the gospel" and 2 Thess 1:8 God has vengeance upon those that OBEY NOT the gospel of Christ. The Jews were lost for they would not believe in their heart or confess with their mouth, that is, they would not call upon the name of the Lord/not obey the gospel.

Their lack of faith is what condemns them, not the legalism of not calling on his name. Just as faith is what justifies, not the legalism of behaviors that correspond with, and are even commanded to accompany, faith in Christ's blood. I'm convinced this is your sticking point. You think legalistically. It's amazing the similarities in thought between the law-keeping argument in the church and your argument. The bottom line of both is a person is justified (made to be legally righteous in God's sight) by their obedience, instead of what the Bible teaches that a person is justified (made to be legally righteous in God's sight) by having their unrighteousness removed through the forgiveness of sin and the righteousness of God--the righteousness of Christ--put in it's place. THAT is the gospel message.

Where in Rom 10 did Paul say the Jews were lost for not keeping the OT law?

Without looking I'm not sure it says it right there, or not. But as you should know, the wages of sin is death. That sentence is given out based on the evil that a person does as defined by the law. The law condemns. So the Jews most assuredly are condemned because of their disobedience to the law. And so is everyone else to this day. The fact that they don't have faith is why they can't be justified and therefore saved on the Day of Wrath. Understand?

Christ took (permanently) the OT out of the way by nailing it to His cross, so men today are not justifed by keeping an inactive OT law but by keeping Christ's NT gospel.

The gospel of Christ is that "through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39 Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses." (Acts 13:39 NIV1984)

What they did not submit to is the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ. That is the only way a man can be justified--through faith in the blood of Christ.

 

[Davies]

Good afternoon,

I wanted to put this under my thread The Pilgrim's Progress, but it directly related this thread, so I post it here.

Christian. "How doest thou believe?"

Ignorance. "I believe that Christ died for sinners and that I shall be justified before God from the curse through His gracious acceptance of my obedience to his law. Or thus, Christ makes my duties that are religious acceptable to His Father by virtue of his merits; and so shall I be justified."

Christian. "Let me give an answer to this confession of thy faith.

"1. Thou believest with a fantastical faith. for this faith is nowhere described in the Word.

"2. Thou believest with a false faith, because it taketh justification from the personal righteousness of Christ and applies it to thy own.

"3. This faith maketh not Christ a justifier of they person, but of thy actions, and of thy person for thy actions' sake, which is false.

"4. Therefore this faith is deceitful, even such as will leave thee under wrath in the day of God Almighty. For true justifying faith puts the soul (as sensible of its lost condition by the law) upon flying for refuge unto Christ's righteousness (which righteousness of his is not an act of grace by which he maketh for justification thy obedience accepted with God, but his personal obedience to the law in doing and suffering for us what that required at our hands). This righteousness, I say, true faith accepteth; under the skirt of which the soul being shrouded and by it presented as spotless before God, it is accepted and acquit from condemnation."

Even Bunyan recognized that people in his day found their obedience as justification before God and not Jesus' obedience alone. It is Jesus' life, and sacrifice that provides justification for the sinner which is given to the sinner through the gift of God's grace and righteousness. To say otherwise, as Bunyan puts it, is to deceive oneself.

- Davies

 

[savedbygrace57]

But your interpretation of the verse brings about Universalism even if you do not believe in it. If many aremade sinners unconditionally then that same many will be made righteous unconditionally. How many are sinners? "All have sinned" so this same all will be unconditionally be made righteous and you have Universalism. Unless you want to argue only a select few were uncondtionally made sinners and that same select few will unconditionally be made righteous? (But Paul did not say this)

Again, so you serve sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness?

The point confounds your false witness, for its by the Obedience of One that many shall be made Righteous. You reject that and say its the obedience of more than one !

Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again, so you serve sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness?

I am not here to discuss what I do !

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul said of the Romans they "obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." It was their literal behavior (obeying from the heart) that brought about their being freed from sins (justification)

No. I showed you that Paul said their obedience brought about their sanctification.

Being freed from sin guilt is justification (one meaning of it, anyway),

Being freed from sinful behavior is sanctification. That is how Paul is explaining their being set free from sin--being set freed from sinful behavior through their obedience, not freed from sin guilt through their obedience. That is impossible to do. If we could do that Christ died for nothing.

James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. " Behavior (works) do justify

Then you believe that a man is justified by works of the law, for he uses four laws to demonstrate the behavior--the obedience--that justifies. The only way to reconcile it with what Paul teaches and not have a glaring contradiction in scripture is to see right there in the context that James is using the word 'justify' as to it's other Biblical meaning which is to SHOW one to be righteous. IOW, when we uphold the law, specifically 'love your neighbor as yourself' we are justified as being one who has faith in Christ. It's impossible to justify yourself as having faith in Christ (show yourself to have faith in Christ) if that 'faith' has not changed you into a new creation that upholds the righteous requirements of God 'do not murder', 'do not steal', 'do not covet', 'do not show favoritism', 'do not neglect the brother in need', etc, all summed up in the command to 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Love is the signifying mark of the one who really is in covenant with God. Love, the fruit of the Spirit, the new creation, is how we know we have been justified by the blood of Christ and have right standing before God given to us apart from what we do. That's why we now do righteous things--we now have the righteousness of Christ.

Righteous work is how we know we have the righteousness of Christ given us apart from righteous work. This is foolishness to the undiscerning mind. This is the great stumbling block of the Jews and all the people who are sure salvation is based on the satisfactory performance of righteous work and not on the grace of God's forgiveness.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Good afternoon,

I wanted to put this under my thread The Pilgrim's Progress, but it directly related this thread, so I post it here.

Christian. "How doest thou believe?"

Ignorance. "I believe that Christ died for sinners and that I shall be justified before God from the curse through His gracious acceptance of my obedience to his law. Or thus, Christ makes my duties that are religious acceptable to His Father by virtue of his merits; and so shall I be justified."

Christian. "Let me give an answer to this confession of thy faith.

"1. Thou believest with a fantastical faith. for this faith is nowhere described in the Word.

"2. Thou believest with a false faith, because it taketh justification from the personal righteousness of Christ and applies it to thy own.

"3. This faith maketh not Christ a justifier of they person, but of thy actions, and of thy person for thy actions' sake, which is false.

"4. Therefore this faith is deceitful, even such as will leave thee under wrath in the day of God Almighty. For true justifying faith puts the soul (as sensible of its lost condition by the law) upon flying for refuge unto Christ's righteousness (which righteousness of his is not an act of grace by which he maketh for justification thy obedience accepted with God, but his personal obedience to the law in doing and suffering for us what that required at our hands). This righteousness, I say, true faith accepteth; under the skirt of which the soul being shrouded and by it presented as spotless before God, it is accepted and acquit from condemnation."

Even Bunyan recognized that people in his day found their obedience as justification before God and not Jesus' obedience alone. It is Jesus' life, and sacrifice that provides justification for the sinner which is given to the sinner through the gift of God's grace and righteousness. To say otherwise, as Bunyan puts it, is to deceive oneself.

- Davies

Good stuff.

 

[dadof10]

Good afternoon,

I wanted to put this under my thread The Pilgrim's Progress, but it directly related this thread, so I post it here.

Christian. "How doest thou believe?"

Ignorance. "I believe that Christ died for sinners and that I shall be justified before God from the curse through His gracious acceptance of my obedience to his law. Or thus, Christ makes my duties that are religious acceptable to His Father by virtue of his merits; and so shall I be justified."

How does this relate to this thread or anyone here? If I remember right, Ignorance is a Theist and not a Christian. I don't think anyone here holds this view, do you?

 

[Davies]

How does this relate to this thread or anyone here? If I remember right, Ignorance is a Theist and not a Christian. I don't think anyone here holds this view, do you?

It directly relates to those who think their righteousness, what they do not matter what kind of work you want to call it, will justify them before God. That's what Ignorance is saying. Ignorance says, "...I shall be justified before God from the curse through His gracious acceptance of my obedience to his law." Christian's refutation of Ignorance includes all a person's work, "This faith maketh not Christ a justifier of thy person, but of thy actions, and of thy person for thy actions' sake, which is false." When someone says, 'I put my faith in Jesus Christ,' the emphasis is on 'I.' A person doesn't justify himself by what he does. A person is justified by the deeds of Jesus Christ imputed to the person, the same way our sins are imputed to Jesus on the cross. Read what Ernest is saying. He is saying exactly what Ignorance is saying, "It was their literal behavior (obeying from the heart) that brought about their being freed from sins (justification)."

- Davies

 

[CORE]

Works righteousness vs faith in God alone is the only thing that separates true Christianity from the rest of all world religions.

Our election should humble us to the point of obedience unto death...because of this we should, in the least, never look "super-silly-ous" toward non-believers, let alone our own brethren and we can't even do that.

we can't even keep from fighting amongst ourselves and debating words.

We do not love God with all our heat, all our soul and all our mind...who can even grasp such a concept?

It amazes me that people have the gull to openly boast about their obedience to God....they certainly have no concept of human depravity and are in serious denial...almost to the point of damnation.

"He who loves a quarrel loves sin; he who builds a high gate invites destruction." - Proverbs 17:19

A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger quiets contention. - Proverbs 15:18

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Praise God Ernest, you do understand the Gospel, and the enormous magnitude of Christ's work on the Cross! ;) Amen! God removed the blinders, even if it was only for a brief moment

The verse does not teach Universalism. It simply teaches for the 'many' that have been affected by sin(made sinners), Christ has a remedy for that 'many's' sins (made righteous). The verse does not say many are made sinners unconditionally or made righteous unconditionally.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

And if you fully understood what those things meant you'd stop insisting a man is justified (made righteous before God) by keeping the righteous requirements of God. No one can keep those requirements perfectly, therefore, no one can be justified that way.

I know of no verse that says God expects man to be perfectly sinless/perfectly righteous. If man could be that way then there was no need for Christ to die. James shows how Abraham was justified by his obedient works yet Abraham was not perfectly sinless.

Look at the whole passage and stop not rightly dividing up the Word of God.

The righteousness they did not submit to is the righteousness that comes from God, not the righteousness of law which Paul says is "“The man who does these things will live by them.” (vs.5). Instead, the righteousness that comes from God, which can not possibly be the righteousness of obeying the commandments of God he is contrasting that righteousness with, is the righteousness that comes by faith in the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ. THAT is the righteousness they did not submit to. They don't believe in God's forgiveness in Christ and, therefore, only have the righteousness of law, the righteousness of perfect righteous behavior, to depend on, which Paul has already shown no one is capable of doing.

There is nothing in the context of Psa 119:172 that changes "all thy commandments are righteousness'.

The Jews were lost for they had not submiited themsleves to the righteousness of God" simply saying the Jews refused to obey God's commandments. The Jews refused to obey God by believing in their heart and confessing with the mouth, that is, they would not obey the gospel of Christ, Rom 10:16 They were very much capable of obeying God, obeying the gospel for many Jews did at Pentecost in Acts 2. Same for the Gentiles, Acts 10:35 cf Acts 10:47-48 Nowhere did Paul say the Jews were lost for they were not perfectly sinless but he said they were lost for not obeying God's commandments. Again, I know of no verse where God expects man to be perfectly sinless for if man were sinless then there was no need for Christ to die for man's sins when man has none.

But, sadly, you think the things you say comprise Christ's law are somehow not works of the law, but I showed you there are.

The obedience of faith is what is not in the law. The law of faith is what justifies, if you want to put it that way.

You have not shown me where belief in Christ as God's only begotton Son Who God raised from the dead is part of the OT law. Repentance of sins, confessing Christ with the mouth or being water baptized for remission of sins are not part of the OT law, but part of Christ's NT law, Christ's NT gospel which the Jews that Paul speaks of in Rom 10 refused to obey the gospel, Rom 10:16 and God has vengeance upon those the OBEY NOT the gospel of Christ. And I have people in this thread trying to tell me people can be saved apart from obedience when the bible says otherwise. Unti one obeys the gospel, he is in disobedience/sin where God will have vengeacne upon him and he remains in that condemned state until he obeys the gospel.

Their lack of faith is what condemns them, not the legalism of not calling on his name. Just as faith is what justifies, not the legalism of behaviors that correspond with, and are even commanded to accompany, faith in Christ's blood. I'm convinced this is your sticking point. You think legalistically. It's amazing the similarities in thought between the law-keeping argument in the church and your argument. The bottom line of both is a person is justified (made to be legally righteous in God's sight) by their obedience, instead of what the Bible teaches that a person is justified (made to be legally righteous in God's sight) by having their unrighteousness removed through the forgiveness of sin and the righteousness of God--the righteousness of Christ--put in it's place. THAT is the gospel message.

You say "Their lack of faith is what condemns them, not the legalism of not calling on his name."

Incredible. Here again I have someone telling me one does not have to obey by calling upon the name of the Lord to be sved when the bible says otherwise, Acts 2:21 Rom 10:13

Lev 17:11 says "For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood..."

James 2:26 says "...so faith without works is dead also."


Just as life is dead without the blood faith is dead without the works and a dead faith cannot save, cannot do anything for it is dead. Yet an obedient faith is one that works, it's alive and does call on the name of the Lord. So a saving faith includes calling on the name of the Lord. No one is first saved THEN calls on the name of the Lord AFTER they are saved. This is true because calling on the name of the Lord means one believes, repents confesses and is baptized and no one is saved in unbelief, unrepentant, saved while denying Christ, saved while still lost in their unremitted sins.

Without looking I'm not sure it says it right there, or not. But as you should know, the wages of sin is death. That sentence is given out based on the evil that a person does as defined by the law. The law condemns. So the Jews most assuredly are condemned because of their disobedience to the law. And so is everyone else to this day. The fact that they don't have faith is why they can't be justified and therefore saved on the Day of Wrath. Understand?

THe context in Rom 10 does not tell us the Jews were not saved for failing to keep the OT law. Col 2:14 Christ took all the OT out of the way making in inactive, ineffective and replaced it with His NT law Heb 10:9 which the Jews refused to obey.

The context does not tell us the Jews were not saved for they did not have faith only

THe context does not tell us the Jews were not saved for they had not said some sinner's prayer

But the context does tell us they were not saved for they had not obeyed God's righteous commands and Paul explains that by saying they would not obey by believing in their heart and confessing with their mouth which is the same as not obeying the gospel/not calling upon the name of the Lord.

The gospel of Christ is that "through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39 Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses." (Acts 13:39 NIV1984)

What they did not submit to is the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ. That is the only way a man can be justified--through faith in the blood of Christ.

And Acts 13:39 does NOT say "And by him all that believe ONLY are justified from all things," Adding the word "only" or "alone' to the verse perverts it and changes it from what it really says. As I posted in an earlier post one cannot just cherry-pick verses that mention the word "believe" and then erroneously declare belief only saves while ignoring all other salvic verses, I also mention in this thread that "believe" is sometimes used as a synecdoche where it stands for belief, repetance confession and baptism, see Acts 2:41 compared to verse 44 how "believed" in verse44 includes being baptized in verse 41.
Jesus never taught belief only saves for He taught repetance, confesson and baptism are jsut as important and essential to salvation as believing. That is why you cannot show me an exmpale of one living under Christ's NT who was saved while still unrpentant, saved while still denying Christ, saved while still lost in his unremitted sins.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Good afternoon,

I wanted to put this under my thread The Pilgrim's Progress, but it directly related this thread, so I post it here.

Christian. "How doest thou believe?"

Ignorance. "I believe that Christ died for sinners and that I shall be justified before God from the curse through His gracious acceptance of my obedience to his law. Or thus, Christ makes my duties that are religious acceptable to His Father by virtue of his merits; and so shall I be justified."

Christian. "Let me give an answer to this confession of thy faith.

"1. Thou believest with a fantastical faith. for this faith is nowhere described in the Word.

"2. Thou believest with a false faith, because it taketh justification from the personal righteousness of Christ and applies it to thy own.

"3. This faith maketh not Christ a justifier of they person, but of thy actions, and of thy person for thy actions' sake, which is false.

"4. Therefore this faith is deceitful, even such as will leave thee under wrath in the day of God Almighty. For true justifying faith puts the soul (as sensible of its lost condition by the law) upon flying for refuge unto Christ's righteousness (which righteousness of his is not an act of grace by which he maketh for justification thy obedience accepted with God, but his personal obedience to the law in doing and suffering for us what that required at our hands). This righteousness, I say, true faith accepteth; under the skirt of which the soul being shrouded and by it presented as spotless before God, it is accepted and acquit from condemnation."

Even Bunyan recognized that people in his day found their obedience as justification before God and not Jesus' obedience alone. It is Jesus' life, and sacrifice that provides justification for the sinner which is given to the sinner through the gift of God's grace and righteousness. To say otherwise, as Bunyan puts it, is to deceive oneself.

- Davies

I come away from reading this thinking the author of this piece does not understand what the bible taeches about obedience and righteousness.

The article does say "It is Jesus' life, and sacrifice that provides justification for the sinner which is given to the sinner through the gift of God's grace and righteousness."

Does this mean every single person will be justified? If not why?

If this does not mean every single person will be justified then how is it determined who will and will not be justified? ("I do not know" is not an acceptable answer)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The point confounds your false witness, for its by the Obedience of One that many shall be made Righteous. You reject that and say its the obedience of more than one !

Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.



I am not here to discuss what I do !

WHere does Paul say many are made righteous by faith only or by doing nothing? In Rom 6:16 [which you refuse to answer] Paul said "obedience UNTO righteousness.

Your refusal to answer a simple question from Rom 6:16 is a testimony to how false the faith only theology truly is.