2nd Timothy Group
Member
Yeah, so . . . you selectively remember what I've written, and since I don't care to waste my time with senseless repeats, you'll have to move onto the next question.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Yeah, so . . . you selectively remember what I've written, and since I don't care to waste my time with senseless repeats, you'll have to move onto the next question.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
You are a very confused person regarding what I believe, and that's amazing, considering that I am right here to clarify before you judge my heart.
But then again, I enjoy people misjudging me. Unlike most who are offended, I am entertained.
God on the other hand, He may not be so thrilled with such false judgments. Like I said, it's ok with me, though. Have fun!
Okay so you believe in salvation by works, by what you do.Yeah, so . . . you selectively remember what I've written, and since I don't care to waste my time with senseless repeats, you'll have to move onto the next question.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
That's a pretty weird assessment. But . . . have it your way. If you want to be known for misunderstanding what has been clearly presented to you, that would be up to you.
Enjoy your day!
Jethro Bodine
Member
You do not need to have the Spirit in you for the Spirit of truth to solicit faith in a person. In fact that's exactly what the Holy Spirit does when He testifies to the world about the truth of Jesus. He does that so that lost people can then place their trust in that which the Spirit has proven to them is true about Jesus.
But even if you don't want to accept that, as I'm sure you won't, most interpretations interpret the fruit of the Spirit as FAITHFULNESS, not faith.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Since when is trusting in Jesus a work that can not justify??????????
Paul makes it clear that trusting in Jesus is the very thing that DOES justify! That is how Abraham was justified. He believed God. But you have him and the rest of us being justified by NOTHING for fear that ANYTHING you do is you trying to save yourself in a works gospel, even believing in God. That's not the definition of the works gospel! I'm not aware of a single scripture that says justification is by NOTHING. I know several that say it is by BELIEVING. And I'm not aware of a single scripture that says the works gospel is when you do ANYTHING to be justified.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
That's what my Bibles teach . . . all of them.
John 6:44 NIV - 44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."
Of course, I believe that the Spirit is God, for the Lord sends His Spirit to His Elect.
Acts 2:17 NIV - 17 "In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."
No im having it your way, the way you told me.That's a pretty weird assessment. But . . . have it your way. If you want to be known for misunderstanding what has been clearly presented to you, that would be up to you.
Enjoy your day!
2nd Timothy Group
Member
I think that I understand what is happening, and so I will extend to you all Grace within me, should I be allowed to give it.
May our Powerful, Almighty God give you the most incredible of Blessings. I sincerely mean these things.
All respect,
David
I believe the scripture teaches that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, now if you believe otherwise, thats on you.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
So Faith is the same thing as faithfulness? I don't think so, but I'll take a look at how other translations represent.
Since trusting is something, you do. If you believe you are saved by what you do, its works
Both are the fruit of the Spirit, its the same greek word.So Faith is the same thing as faithfulness? I don't think so, but I'll take a look at how other translations represent.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
So Faith is the same thing as faithfulness? I don't think so, but I'll take a look at how other translations represent.
The KJV says "Faith" . . .
Galatians 5:22 KJV - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith . . ."
brightfame52 wins!
2nd Timothy Group
Member
I believe that I am saved by four basic elements, or Works of Christ.
1) The Spiritual Circumcision of Christ, the removal of the Curse of the Lord.
2) Jesus grants the ability to turn and Repent and the Elect cry out "Abba Father", thus they [will] turn and change.
3) Jesus sends the Indwelling Holy Spirit to lead and guide, to interface between the Elect and God.
4) Jesus paid the penalty for my sin and the fact that I was Cursed by the Father, and also because I believe in Christ and the Power that raised Him from the grave.
None of that has anything to do with me.
It is absolutely amazing how you formulated, in your own little space, that I believe in works/salvation.
Next time . . . stop yourself and reconsider before you write.
Friend its not about me trying to win anything, but to speak the truth in love. Now the NT phrase " The Just shall live by Faith" is actually out of the OT Prophets Hab 2:4The KJV says "Faith" . . .
Galatians 5:22 KJV - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith . . ."
brightfame52 wins!
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Now several translations have rendered the verse as so:
Look at the proud; his soul is not straight or right within him, but the [rigidly] just and the [uncompromisingly] righteous man shall live by his faith and in his faithfulness. AMPC
“Look at the proud person. He is not right in himself. But the righteous person will live because of his faithfulness.GW
Look at the proud person. He is not right in himself. But the righteous person will live because of his faithfulness.NOG
4 Lo, a presumptuous one! Not upright is his soul within him, And the righteous by his stedfastness liveth.YLT
So the point is this, Gal 5:22 means both Faith and faithfulness, see Faithfulness is the extended habit of living by Faith. Its still the fruit of the Spirit.
2Tg
But you are inconsistent since you turn around and say, no one is saved until they place their trust in Christ, which is something you did.
And you flat out deny that Christs death for one in and of itself Justified/saved them. So that's inconsistent
But you are inconsistent since you turn around and say, no one is saved until they place their trust in Christ, which is something you did.
And you flat out deny that Christs death for one in and of itself Justified/saved them. So that's inconsistent
2nd Timothy Group
Member
I have told you more than once that I was empowered to believe. This is the Effect of Christ. The Effect is crying out Abba Father. But this is not from the self . . . this is caused by God.
I'm sorry, but I don't know how to express these things in a way that will allow you to understand.
Galatians 4:6 NKJV - "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"
Those who are Powerfully Indwelt by the Holy Spirit will cry out, "Abba, Father!" for they cannot help it. Anyone who has felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God, which is Peace and Love, they cannot deny Him. It is impossible to deny God when He has allowed His Elect to Know Him, or, should I say, Known [by] Him.
2tg
Understood, but you say one isnt saved until after you have done the believing. So you admit out of your own mind that getting saved ultimately depends on on what you have done.
At best ones believing is a work of righteousness and scripture clearly says Titus 3:5
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Understood, but you say one isnt saved until after you have done the believing. So you admit out of your own mind that getting saved ultimately depends on on what you have done.
At best ones believing is a work of righteousness and scripture clearly says Titus 3:5
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
2nd Timothy Group
Member