Is Christ divided?

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes. It starts out as a teaching from Christ, then it becomes a fruitful lifestyle. It starts with a seed.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:12-15



Are you aware that wrong doctrine can cause you to depart from the faith?



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1



JLB

Yes, I am well aware of it.
I see it happen all around me.
They want mans' law to rule the day.
I personally have seen it in several denominations.

 

[Edward]

Just what do people believe or understand by unity?

Is it uniformity in belief and practice?

Or could it be a similarity or conformity to a central belief?

Many different secondary issues have been mention, but nothing about what is common to All branches of Christianity.

The NT take about being saved through faith in Jesu, it says nothing about churches or about theological beliefs.

The unity in Jesus is just that a unity in a saving faith.

It's uniformity in belief of truth. There is one truth. One relationship. But the problem is the age old problem. Sin. The flesh and carnal mind can never receive the spiritual things of the Kingdom of God, because they are spiritual and must be spiritually discerned.

I've got an idea! So let's open a Christian talk forum and try to understand this all logically and carnally, lol. A carnal talk forum probably perpetuates division.

But at the same time understanding will come because of the Holy Spirit because He is not slack in His work.

 

[Who Me]

You sound so harsh.
You can sit on the other side of the church.

Can you answer the question?

 

[Who Me]

Unity is coming into the faith of Christ as we all believe in what He taught. That unity brings us to love one another and destroys the barriers of division.

How do you see this in your town/district?

 

[Who Me]

It's uniformity in belief of truth

In that I and you and him and her over there despite there strange church practices also share and believes in the same faith.

As you say sin, or bias or church prejudice often gets in the way of our being United with other Christians.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Can you answer the question?

Unity is when all people involved agree that they love Jesus and therefore can worship together, get along together, and don't let any differences stand in the way.

 

[Who Me]

Unity is when all people involved agree that they love Jesus and therefore can worship together, get along together, and don't let any differences stand in the way.

Wouldn't say they have to worship together, as some people are wedded to there churches form of worship but otherwise would agree.

 

[Walpole]

To say we are all Christians and hence should be unified is a fallacy. The very term Christian now has to be qualified. For example, are you a Catholic? Orthodox? Protestant? Within Protestantism, you then have...

- Free will vs. predestination Christians
- Credobaptists vs. paedobaptist
- Sacramentalist vs. antisacramentalist
- Acceptable with icons vs. iconoclasts
- Real presence vs. symbolic presence
- Episcopacy vs. congregational
- Restorationalists vs. preservers
- Liturgical vs. free-style worshiper
- Speaking-in-tongues vs. cessationists
- Credalists vs. anti-credalists
- Sola scriptura vs. Scripture + tradition
- OSAS vs. non-OSAS
- Pre-tribulation vs. post-tribulation

The list goes on and on and on. The reality is if you don't have an authoritative body, organ or mechanism that has authority to declare what is or is not the faith, you cannot have unity, only chaos.

Christianity is a religion of revelation, whereby man discovers truth and conforms his will to it. It is here where true unity is found.

 

[for_his_glory]

How do you see this in your town/district?

We just moved a couple months ago and I haven't met anyone here yet so I don't know other then there is a different church on every corner as they teach their own doctrines. Now, concerning the body of Christ with He being the head of the body this is what needs to be bringing us into the unity of His Spirit as we are to be led by the Holy Spirit, not man.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This is speaking about the spirit of antichrist that teaches from the pulpit in many churches like that of the spirit of Jezebel in whom God warned us in Rev 2:18-29 to not have anything to do with her or else we will see God's wrath against us.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Wouldn't say they have to worship together, as some people are wedded to there churches form of worship but otherwise would agree.

Yes, I agree, but what I was thinking is that if someone wanted me to come to their old fashioned for of worship in a Presbyterian church, I would go for the sake of having fellowship with my fellow Christian.
This is exactly something I have done.

 

[Who Me]

there is a different church on every corner as they teach their own doctrines.

Do they, or do they major on minor issues like baptism, church government, type of litergy, which Bible to use etc etc etc.

 

[for_his_glory]

It truly doesn't matter what language each church uses as it should be only the doctrines of Christ being taught as each language has a translated Bible.

So many go to church just to feel good about themselves, but yet never learn much of anything as the Bible they carry never gets opened, but to only be put on a shelf and taken down and dusted off for the next sermon.

Many pastors were really never called to preach nor were they ever equiped and anointed by the Holy Spirit. The term for that is "wantabees". They teach the tradtional doctrines of man handed down by man in the government of the paticular denomination who tell the Pastor what they are allowed and not allowed to preach as they are anded written sermons. These doctrines of man become socially acceptable and tickle the congregations ears, but leave them Spiritually dead inside. Stand outside a church and ask a few when they leave what the sermon was about and they will say "I don't know, but it made me feel good". Ask your Pastor to explain what he just taught and you will find most can not. I have done this and very discouraging.

No one is coming to the foot of the cross anymore seeking God's true salvation through Christ Jesus as they are trying to climb in another way. Jesus says I am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, John 14:6. He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber, John 10:1-21.

I remember back in the 70's through the early 90's there was revival in the word Churches, but the revival has gone silent given over to doctrines of devils as are there even any good word churches left. I cry as I am sad what has happened to God's people who once knew Him, but have gone astray believing the doctrines of devils.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

 

[for_his_glory]

so a church that has a die hard pre tribher eschatology should allow you to teach your pov,and if not then you just shut up ?

I have been told here and elsewhere that I can't share my views on eschatology .

amil isn't welcome in some churches and vice versa ,its a grey area . some make it a heresy to believe other wise .

what of theistic evolution ?creationism ?

old or young earth and also gap theory?

I'm a yec myself but my,brother is oec. barbarian is a theistic evolutionist . I personally believe yec is correct but the others arent lost .
churches form over grey areas.

in,essentials unity ,in non essentials liberty ,and all else charity .

I can't be under a theistic evolutionist teacher .liberty I give .he may teach but I'm,not listening .

you nor I get to decide that on the gray areas whom is lost or not because they teach theistic evolution or gap theory etc

Simply put, where is the true word of God within all these different theories and doctrines of man. Man will always add to, take away and totally eliminate from the word of God in order to prove their point. Unity in Christ will only come when the truth sets you free from the ruling principalities of this world.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

 

[for_his_glory]

Do they, or do they major on minor issues like baptism, church government, type of litergy, which Bible to use etc etc etc.

It all boils down to adding to taking away or not even teaching the doctrines of Christ, but that of only a carnal understanding.

 

[GodsGrace]

To say we are all Christians and hence should be unified is a fallacy. The very term Christian now has to be qualified. For example, are you a Catholic? Orthodox? Protestant? Within Protestantism, you then have...

- Free will vs. predestination Christians
- Credobaptists vs. paedobaptist
- Sacramentalist vs. antisacramentalist
- Acceptable with icons vs. iconoclasts
- Real presence vs. symbolic presence
- Episcopacy vs. congregational
- Restorationalists vs. preservers
- Liturgical vs. free-style worshiper
- Speaking-in-tongues vs. cessationists
- Credalists vs. anti-credalists
- Sola scriptura vs. Scripture + tradition
- OSAS vs. non-OSAS
- Pre-tribulation vs. post-tribulation

The list goes on and on and on. The reality is if you don't have an authoritative body, organ or mechanism that has authority to declare what is or is not the faith, you cannot have unity, only chaos.

Christianity is a religion of revelation, whereby man discovers truth and conforms his will to it. It is here where true unity is found.

I agree about having an authoratative body....
but here's the problem I see with that:
All my friends now are Catholic because of where I live.
Some of them are born again.
When we're togther the discussion is always about what
the church is doing and the discussion never is pointed toward
some kind of spiritual talk. I try to mention Jesus or the bible,
but it just doesn't take.

It seems that they're more concerned with following church rules
than biblical rules. You may say they're the same...but I'm not sure.
They feel like they're being saved through the church (as one prayer says --
"do not look down upon our sins but on the faith of your church"...

This is an incredibly different message than scripture gives. It seems to me
that our salvation is a very personal matter.

I like the early church.
There was some talk some years ago of going back to that paradigm... but it has long
since been forgotten. (I speak for Italy only).

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, I agree, but what I was thinking is that if someone wanted me to come to their old fashioned for of worship in a Presbyterian church, I would go for the sake of having fellowship with my fellow Christian.
This is exactly something I have done.

How does a person have fellowship with Christians that believe in a different God than you do?

 

[Edward]

To say we are all Christians and hence should be unified is a fallacy. The very term Christian now has to be qualified. For example, are you a Catholic? Orthodox? Protestant? Within Protestantism, you then have...

- Free will vs. predestination Christians
- Credobaptists vs. paedobaptist
- Sacramentalist vs. antisacramentalist
- Acceptable with icons vs. iconoclasts
- Real presence vs. symbolic presence
- Episcopacy vs. congregational
- Restorationalists vs. preservers
- Liturgical vs. free-style worshiper
- Speaking-in-tongues vs. cessationists
- Credalists vs. anti-credalists
- Sola scriptura vs. Scripture + tradition
- OSAS vs. non-OSAS
- Pre-tribulation vs. post-tribulation

The list goes on and on and on. The reality is if you don't have an authoritative body, organ or mechanism that has authority to declare what is or is not the faith, you cannot have unity, only chaos.

Christianity is a religion of revelation, whereby man discovers truth and conforms his will to it. It is here where true unity is found.

Well scripture says that Jesus comes to being division, so we should keep that in mind too. I think a big division is coming to the church.

 

[Walpole]

I agree about having an authoratative body....
but here's the problem I see with that:
All my friends now are Catholic because of where I live.
Some of them are born again.
When we're togther the discussion is always about what
the church is doing and the discussion never is pointed toward
some kind of spiritual talk. I try to mention Jesus or the bible,
but it just doesn't take.

It seems that they're more concerned with following church rules
than biblical rules. You may say they're the same...but I'm not sure.
They feel like they're being saved through the church (as one prayer says --
"do not look down upon our sins but on the faith of your church"...

This is an incredibly different message than scripture gives. It seems to me
that our salvation is a very personal matter.

I like the early church.
There was some talk some years ago of going back to that paradigm... but it has long
since been forgotten. (I speak for Italy only).

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.


I like the early Church too, but seeds are meant to sprout and mature.

 

[JLB]

The very term Christian now has to be qualified.

A Christian is a person who has Jesus as their Lord, in which they follow and obey His commandments and teachings, because He dwells in them.


All the rest is just noise that distracts from the proverbial signal.





JLB

 

[Walpole]

A Christian is a person who has Jesus as their Lord, in which they follow and obey His commandments and teachings, because He dwells in them.


All the rest is just noise that distracts from the proverbial signal.





JLB

Would you then consider Mormons to be Christians?

"Jesus is the Son of God and our loving Savior. He lived to teach us, and He suffered and died to save us from sin and death. Because of Him, we can be forgiven, we can overcome challenges, and we can live with God again someday." - Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, What We Believe

Source



What about Jim Jones?

"I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and God is the Creator of the universe." - Jim Jones

"Well, I’m a disciple in my teachings, disciples, uh, Disciples of Christ teach that Jesus Christ is the son of the savior of the world. (Pause) And God is, is Love." - Jim Jones

Source