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Is Christ divided?

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Would you then consider Mormons to be Christians?

"Jesus is the Son of God and our loving Savior. He lived to teach us, and He suffered and died to save us from sin and death. Because of Him, we can be forgiven, we can overcome challenges, and we can live with God again someday." - Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, What We Believe

Source



What about Jim Jones?

"I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and God is the Creator of the universe." - Jim Jones

"Well, I’m a disciple in my teachings, disciples, uh, Disciples of Christ teach that Jesus Christ is the son of the savior of the world. (Pause) And God is, is Love." - Jim Jones

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You judge by what they say and do.
If Mormons still believe they will become the God of there own world then they are not Christian.

Jim Jones murdered his followers that is not the act of a Christian.
 

wondering

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Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.


I like the early Church too, but seeds are meant to sprout and mature.
The O.P. is: Is Christ Divided?

I don't think He was until after 325AD after the council of Nicea.
It was nice that Christianity was no longer outlawed...but the next
Caeser declared Christianity to be the religion of the state and I think
that's when the problems began.

I do wish the seeds hadn't sprouted and remained, IMO, "pure" with
no man-made ideas.

As to Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus...
It might be interesting to have a thread on this if you were willing....
I don't think there are other Catholics on here that are as knowledgeable
as you are....

I'll start a thread....it can be discussed very calmly on this forum.
 

JLB

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Would you then consider Mormons to be Christians?

I dont really like to make blanket statements about groups such as Mormons, JW's, Catholics, Baptists, SDA, Pentecostals, AOG, .... as their may be some in each group.

Those who are led by the Spirit are sons of God.


For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14




JLB
 

Walpole

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I dont really like to make blanket statements about groups such as Mormons, JW's, Catholics, Baptists, SDA, Pentecostals, AOG, .... as their may be some in each group.

Those who are led by the Spirit are sons of God.


For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14




JLB

You are making my point in that it's not as simple as saying someone is a Christian simply because
they believe Jesus is Lord and therefore we can all be united with one another.

There are so many qualifications to saying "I believe in Jesus" that unity is impossible.
 

Walpole

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The O.P. is: Is Christ Divided?

I don't think He was until after 325AD after the council of Nicea.
It was nice that Christianity was no longer outlawed...but the next
Caeser declared Christianity to be the religion of the state and I think
that's when the problems began.

I do wish the seeds hadn't sprouted and remained, IMO, "pure" with
no man-made ideas.

As to Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus...
It might be interesting to have a thread on this if you were willing....
I don't think there are other Catholics on here that are as knowledgeable
as you are....

I'll start a thread....it can be discussed very calmly on this forum.

I'm hardly the knowledgeable one!

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is not only a Catholic belief, as the progenitors of Protestantism also believed and taught it...

"For outside the Christian Church, there is no truth, no Christ, and no salvation. - Martin Luther, Sermon for the Early Christmas Service; Luke 2:15-20 (1521-1522). Luther's Works, American Ed., Hans J. Hillerbrand, Helmut T. Lehmann ed., Philadelphia, Concordia Publishing House/Fortress Press, 1974, ISBN 0-8006-0352-4 (Sermons II), vol. 52:39-40

"...beyond the pale of the Church, no forgiveness of sins, no salvation can be hoped for." - John Calvin, Institutes, Book IV, Ch 1:4
 

for_his_glory

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Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Titus 1: 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.



It Is Right To Name Names
Many mistakenly believe that it is wrong to expose error and to name the guilty teachers; but they are wrong according to the Bible.

Paul named Peter publicly. Peter was guilty of unscriptural practice. “But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed , But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of the Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?” (Gal. 2:11-14). T

Paul named Demas for loving the world. “For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world” (II Tim. 4:10). Those who forsake the cause of Christ for worldly living and pleasures should be named and exposed.

Paul named Alexander the coppersmith. “Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil. the Lord reward him “according to his works: Of whom be thou ware also, for he hath greatly withstood our words ” (II Tim. 4:14-15). It is clear that this is not a personality problem, but a doctrinal problem. Alexander had withstood the words and doctrine of Paul. He was an enemy to the truth. Godly pastors face the same problem every day. They stand and proclaim the truth, then their members go home and hear this truth disputed by radio and TV preachers.

John named Diotrephes. “I wrote unto the church; but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not” (III John 9). He related how this man had prated against him “with malicious words ” (v. 10). He further said, “Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God, but he that doeth evil hath not seen God ” (v. I 1). It is not wrong to name those whose doctrine and practice is contrary to the Word of God.

In fact, the whole Bible abounds in examples of false prophets being named and exposed. All this modern day talk about love, used as an excuse for not exposing error, is not really biblical love but is really sloppy agape.

Moses called the name of Balaam. (See Num. 22-25). Peter exposed “the way of Balaam , who loved the wages of unrighteousness ” (II Pet. 2:15). Balaam was a prophet that was in the work for money, just like some of the TV false prophets today. They beg for money and live like kings, while multitudes of innocent people send them their hard earned money. They are always building colleges, hospitals, TV network satellites, and amusement parks that have a water slide for Jesus. And then we are suppose to keep our mouth shut about these religious charlatans. How can we be silent and be true to God?

Jude exposed “the error of Balaam ” (Jude I 1). John exposed “the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication ” (Rev. 2:14). This gets right to the heart of the matter, concerning the doctrine of separation. Balaam never did curse Israel even though he wanted the wages that he was offered to do so.

False teachers are breaking down the barrier of separation between God’s people and false religion. There is too little preaching and teaching on the doctrine of separation. Balaam breached the doctrine of personal separation by causing the men of Israel to commit fornication with the Moabite women. He breached the doctrine of ecclesiastical separation by causing the men of Israel to bow down to Baal. This brought a curse upon Israel. Until we get back to teaching the truth about personal and ecclesiastical separation, we can expect the continued widespread havoc that we have today.

It seems to be believed by many that some people are too high and mighty to be named or exposed. Men in high places, pastors of large churches, and those with great radio or TV audiences, are supposedly above criticism. Whatever they may do or say, no matter how contrary to the Bible it may be, is supposedly all right. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Nathan identified the man. There was a man in a very high place who was a secret adulterer. Surely this man who held the highest office in the land could not be rebuked by a lowly unpopular prophet. Nathan went right into the presence of David, revealed the sin in a parable form, and then told the enraged David, “Thou art the man ” (II Sam. 12:7).
 

wondering

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I'm hardly the knowledgeable one!

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is not only a Catholic belief, as the progenitors of Protestantism also believed and taught it...

"For outside the Christian Church, there is no truth, no Christ, and no salvation. - Martin Luther, Sermon for the Early Christmas Service; Luke 2:15-20 (1521-1522). Luther's Works, American Ed., Hans J. Hillerbrand, Helmut T. Lehmann ed., Philadelphia, Concordia Publishing House/Fortress Press, 1974, ISBN 0-8006-0352-4 (Sermons II), vol. 52:39-40

"...beyond the pale of the Church, no forgiveness of sins, no salvation can be hoped for." - John Calvin, Institutes, Book IV, Ch 1:4
Will answer tomorrow for EENS.
On phone now.
 

wondering

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I'm hardly the knowledgeable one!

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is not only a Catholic belief, as the progenitors of Protestantism also believed and taught it...

"For outside the Christian Church, there is no truth, no Christ, and no salvation. - Martin Luther, Sermon for the Early Christmas Service; Luke 2:15-20 (1521-1522). Luther's Works, American Ed., Hans J. Hillerbrand, Helmut T. Lehmann ed., Philadelphia, Concordia Publishing House/Fortress Press, 1974, ISBN 0-8006-0352-4 (Sermons II), vol. 52:39-40

"...beyond the pale of the Church, no forgiveness of sins, no salvation can be hoped for." - John Calvin, Institutes, Book IV, Ch 1:4
I think I'll start a thread on this.
We need more Catholic ideas around here since everyone
is so far behind in what is taught.
 

for_his_glory

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I think I'll start a thread on this.
We need more Catholic ideas around here since everyone
is so far behind in what is taught.
What we need is more Biblical truth found in the doctrines of Christ for what He has already taught. Religion just gets in the way of truth.
 

wondering

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What we need is more Biblical truth found in the doctrines of Christ for what He has already taught. Religion just gets in the way of truth.
Every church one attends is religion.
Our personal relationship with God is faith.
There are many biblical truths found in Catholicism.
I did start a thread on this BTW.
I think I called it: Is there salvation outside the church?
It's probably in Theology.
 

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Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:10-13


  • I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.



I hear much discussion lately about the merits of Calvinism vs Arminianism, this doctrine verses that doctrine, this set of commentaries verses that one...


Why? So we can continue promoting the division the devil has devised with all of these different teachings?



  • each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided?


We must find the will and motivation to look to the scriptures and the leading of the Spirit as our source for doctrinal truth. The New Testament is the teaching of Christ through His apostles, for our benefit.


Claiming to be Calvinist, or Arminian, or Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, or Premillennialism or Dispensational Premillennialism, Historical Premillennialism, Amillennialism, Postmillennialism, and on and on.... referring to a plethora of different authors who one follows, only incites division.


This should not be brothers and sisters.


We are Christians, followers of Christ; children of God.




JLB
I've given up trying to figure out how I fit into any of the above. Only two things really matter and all else flows from them. Love God, love others. If you're doing that, you do well. The rest is for theologians to argue over. But to love God is demonstrated in action. Same is true in loving others. Action.

I could be a Calvinist and be wrong on many things. Likely they are. Same with Armenians. The list goes on. No one has a perfect theology. But we have a perfect Savior and the God we worship says to love our God and to love our neighbors. If we truly love God, loving others is easy.

Everything else is fluff. If we have not love we have nothing. Knowledge puffs but love binds wounds and builds. Love, true love as God intends, never fails. Ever.

I could be wrong on a few of these points but I'm not wrong about love. Because I read about it in the Book. ;)
 

JLB

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wondering

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I've given up trying to figure out how I fit into any of the above. Only two things really matter and all else flows from them. Love God, love others. If you're doing that, you do well. The rest is for theologians to argue over. But to love God is demonstrated in action. Same is true in loving others. Action.

I could be a Calvinist and be wrong on many things. Likely they are. Same with Armenians. The list goes on. No one has a perfect theology. But we have a perfect Savior and the God we worship says to love our God and to love our neighbors. If we truly love God, loving others is easy.

Everything else is fluff. If we have not love we have nothing. Knowledge puffs but love binds wounds and builds. Love, true love as God intends, never fails. Ever.

I could be wrong on a few of these points but I'm not wrong about love. Because I read about it in the Book. ;)
Well PZ....
If we didn't argue over theology...we could close down all forums!!
And some do come on these forums to argue...I think we're lucky
because I see here that we seem to discuss things instead of arguing
about them.

But, I agree whole-heartedly with you. Most don't know the bible at all and
yet you see love in them and they spread it to others. Instead some claim to
be Christian and yet I see hatred and vengeance in them....I'm speaking about
friends of mine and how different they are.

What I like to go by is what Jesus taught. If we read all the writers some problems
could come up because they each saw Jesus in a different light and wanted to show Him
in that way.

But the type of person He was and what He taught is something we could hang on to.
He left us with the two Great Commandments...
Love God --- without which we can do nothing.
Love your neighbor, as yourself --- we need to love ourselves before we could help love or help anyone else....
and then the love of neighbor will cover all the things He said to do.

BTW....the story is never finished...there would always be more.
 

Papa Zoom

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Well PZ....
If we didn't argue over theology...we could close down all forums!!
And some do come on these forums to argue...I think we're lucky
because I see here that we seem to discuss things instead of arguing
about them.

But, I agree whole-heartedly with you. Most don't know the bible at all and
yet you see love in them and they spread it to others. Instead some claim to
be Christian and yet I see hatred and vengeance in them....I'm speaking about
friends of mine and how different they are.

What I like to go by is what Jesus taught. If we read all the writers some problems
could come up because they each saw Jesus in a different light and wanted to show Him
in that way.

But the type of person He was and what He taught is something we could hang on to.
He left us with the two Great Commandments...
Love God --- without which we can do nothing.
Love your neighbor, as yourself --- we need to love ourselves before we could help love or help anyone else....
and then the love of neighbor will cover all the things He said to do.

BTW....the story is never finished...there would always be more.
well said as usual. I do like to discuss ideas and theological concepts. But I've given up on the labels and trying to fit into the "right one." Still, there is a lot to be gained by listening to the thoughts and ideas of others. It keeps us sharp and thinking. But in the end, only love endures.

I'm probably going to go to a Reformed church. But not because I agree with the Reformed position on all thing, I have friends there and it's close. Now that I have moved I'm 25 miles from the church I attended for nearly 30 years. So I'm looking. There are some churches close by here but they lean liberal on too many issues and I'm to set in my ways for that. But who knows, maybe this old dog can learn a new trick or two? ;)
 

Papa Zoom

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I agree


Everything hangs on these.




JLB
To me it's the simplicity of the Gospel and how to be like God (as in emulating His character). Love. Easier said than done. In fact impossible without the Holy Spirit in one's life IMO. I remind myself of this often. Loving God is a daily, moment by moment thing and all else can flow naturally from that.
 

JLB

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In fact impossible without the Holy Spirit in one's life IMO.

I have said this many times and in many different ways.

I couldnt agree more.



JLB
 
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jasonc

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well said as usual. I do like to discuss ideas and theological concepts. But I've given up on the labels and trying to fit into the "right one." Still, there is a lot to be gained by listening to the thoughts and ideas of others. It keeps us sharp and thinking. But in the end, only love endures.

I'm probably going to go to a Reformed church. But not because I agree with the Reformed position on all thing, I have friends there and it's close. Now that I have moved I'm 25 miles from the church I attended for nearly 30 years. So I'm looking. There are some churches close by here but they lean liberal on too many issues and I'm to set in my ways for that. But who knows, maybe this old dog can learn a new trick or two? ;)
probably way north of you,I have a friend in skagit,she attends a Russian church .not sure if its reformed .she visits here and our church is reformed
 

JLB

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You are making my point in that it's not as simple as saying someone is a Christian simply because
they believe Jesus is Lord and therefore we can all be united with one another.

There are so many qualifications to saying "I believe in Jesus" that unity is impossible.

Yes sir. Agreed.
 
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