Is Corporate Worship Important or Necessary?

[Alabaster]

Re: What is your church like?

alabaster he isnt aware that to be ordained by God is done by fasting and prayer and that a true man of God doesnt run to the pulpit but from the PULPIT. and God crushes them to the point that they must return to do his will,
ie jonah and the big fish style.

that burden is so great that you have to lay all that your dreams aside to be that pastor. and your flesh cries out NOOOOOO!and you run even leave town or family.

that calling is way out long before you actually perform it

and to a degree that is in within me as i have calling to teach the word.

Yes sir--very true.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

lol. do you think that i havent been there? uh afghanistan i then started a small group but the point being you cant learn online only you have to go where others are and learn from them. and trust me its much better when i had lord raised these persons up

I've learnt loads online. I've learnt how the falling away is happening.

and he called pastors over these peoples if you doubt kindly look at revalation one to 4 and what the lord would do wit the pastors? and or church?

So you think John was talking about 7 actual church buildings when he addressed those at the start of Rev?

and what of the five fold ministry?
that cant be done online? the apostle,pastor, prophet,evangelist.

those when in use are way different.

In you're head they are way different. But not to me. To me they are all different words for teachers. If you think that certain members of you're congregation are recieving direct inspired prophecy from God then thats you're business. I'll take my inspired prophecy from scripture thanks.

i would work closely as a prophet when i would be used like that as will take scripture and make it point people out and call men to repent.

and evangelist doest something similiar but he or she would preach with exhortation to reach the lost and aslo exhort the lost to repent with out nailing a sin that the prophet would do.

the pastor can teach and lead the flock.

Do you mean lead by example? Or have authority?

and doesnt your wife not speak in your language? you english and she vietnamese?

and uh what if you are the problem or she is and you are at a deadlock? whom they shall you go to?

My wife speaks English just fine.

Whats my personal life got to do with this?

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

Your jaded view does not line up with reality.

You mean my reality doesn't line up with you're 'vision'.

I guess if I was in one of you're cell groups I would have been ejected by now for not conforming to the social consensus right?

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

alabaster he isnt aware that to be ordained by God is done by fasting and prayer and that a true man of God doesnt run to the pulpit but from the PULPIT. and God crushes them to the point that they must return to do his will,
ie jonah and the big fish style.

that burden is so great that you have to lay all that your dreams aside to be that pastor. and your flesh cries out NOOOOOO!and you run even leave town or family.

that calling is way out long before you actually perform it

and to a degree that is in within me as i have calling to teach the word.

Oh and just per chance you're particular brand of teaching the Word is not possible online so theres no way to show us your skills. How conveniant.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

alabaster he isnt aware that to be ordained by God is done by fasting and prayer and that a true man of God doesnt run to the pulpit but from the PULPIT. and God crushes them to the point that they must return to do his will,

So not only are you a teacher and a prophet, you're also an apostle now???

Dude, you're proffesion is to control people by force.

Know them by their fruit?

 

[Chris]

Re: What is your church like?

We are representatives of what we believe, what we believe represents itself in us.
More flies have been caught with honey than vinegar.


God is love!

A rabbit will never come to you unless you treat it gently! (non believers)
​

 

[Alabaster]

Re: What is your church like?

You mean my reality doesn't line up with you're 'vision'.

I guess if I was in one of you're cell groups I would have been ejected by now for not conforming to the social consensus right?

Probably, but it isn't a social consensus we are concerned about, but spiritual health is what is important. We would pray with you and over you and love you and offer you godly counsel. After that, you'd probably leave of your own accord. It sure isn't comfortable to share life with people who are going one way while you go another. Like our pastors say, "You either grow or you go."

 

[Vince]

Re: What is your church like?

The Bible teaches in several places that SERVANTS, not rulers, are the greatest Christians. Yet, twice in Hebrews 13, it tells us to obey those who have the rule over us.

Notice that neither verse names a church office, such as "pastor," "bishop," district superintendent, "elder," etc.

It describes those who have the rule over you as those who watch for your souls, and who have taught you the word of God. If they don't meet those two descriptions, they don't have the rule over you.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: What is your church like?

So not only are you a teacher and a prophet, you're also an apostle now???

Dude, you're proffesion is to control people by force.

Know them by their fruit?

no. did i say that i was and no i am NOT a pastor , i am not in that office. God will often tell you what he wants you do then waits yrs to mature to that level to put you there.

what i mean is this. i have told my pastor that i was called. he takes note and when he prays and the lord answers with a nod yay or nay. he will place me after prayer where i need to go.

with being ordianed it works like this. i go to the chruch elders they groom me to preach and show me the ropes and what not. they pray by fasting i am asked questioned, others in the church will testify via word of mouth or they take note that when work is needed on the church i am there ,and then ordain me a minister.

that is how its done. you are watched for fruits to see if you have that serveants attitude.

you start small and work your way up. I wouldnt tell my pastor that i'm to replace him. no i will go and tell him this where do you NEED me to help.

once there i do whatever menial task is at hand then when the lord wills he will place me in the position to be used in my calling

that hasnt happened yet.

but i intend to be more involved in my church.

we have reached 85 souls to the lord in the last month.

can you say the same?

 

[jasoncran]

Re: What is your church like?

Oh and just per chance you're particular brand of teaching the Word is not possible online so theres no way to show us your skills. How conveniant.

because i cant work it up. if he bids it it happens.

that doesnt happen all the time.

yes i can break down the word but that is more to it.

i can say this as i knew this by simple thinking and expercience you never went to a church. and also that you read the bible for yourself and think you know it when you have much to learn

theres the realisation of the these things for YOU? that you alone have to take hold off and sometimes it only comes by trials and suffering and loss.

sorrow is the best teacher not the pastor.

but the pastor has his place as you dont know where you or what the lord will tell you.

you many not get exicited over 1 cor 16:15 that says the house of stephanias addicted themselves to the ministry. i do! that is powerful and where i need to be.

hooked on doing the lord's will.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

Probably, but it isn't a social consensus we are concerned about, but spiritual health is what is important.

Really...so you never talk about social issues in yer cell groups then?

Would you mind posting some of your cell group itineraries so we can have a look at some of the issues you talk about? Maybe I can find them on your church website?

We would pray with you and over you and love you and offer you godly counsel. After that, you'd probably leave of your own accord. It sure isn't comfortable to share life with people who are going one way while you go another. Like our pastors say, "You either grow or you go."

Thats interesting. Isn't it rather easy to agree on the essential doctrines of Christianity? I mean....I'd say that me and you do Alabaster no? Justification by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ? Would we be going in the same direction there?

So if we're not going in split directions there, then why would you think that I would probably leave you're cell group....if all you talk about are spiritual issues? What have you and I clashed on in the forums? Spiritual issues? Doctrinal stuff?

Or is it more like if you don't grow into our vision of what the church 'community' should be like then you have to go? Hmmmmm? Is your church making social issues into salvation/doctrinal issues?

I seem to remember you telling me that if I'm not under the authority of a pastor and don't go to a church building then I'm not IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Are you still standing by that in light of MATT 20:25?

 

[Nick]

Re: What is your church like?

Strangelove, have you ever been to a church post you being saved?

 

[Alabaster]

Re: What is your church like?

Really...so you never talk about social issues in yer cell groups then?

Would you mind posting some of your cell group itineraries so we can have a look at some of the issues you talk about? Maybe I can find them on your church website?

Perhaps I can post a sample cell lesson for you:

Prayer- 5 min - Prayer for personal needs within the group

Key Thought: A part of connection in the body of Christ is being accountable to others!

Only in this way do we have the protection of divine order to keep us walking in the ways of the Lord. Accountability is necessary for all of us. No one is so insignificant that he doesn’t need it, and no one is so important that it doesn’t apply to him. Order and accountability are principles from God’s Word that must be set in place if the body is to accomplish its God-given purpose of

Discussion - 30 min Read - Titus 2

It is just as important to have your life in order as it is to be in a church that is in order. No matter your age or gender, you are always called to reflect Christ in all situations and seasons of life.

Read Titus 2:1–5 and discuss the role of older men and women in the body of Christ. Why are these traits especially applicable to older people?

Have you ever been influenced by an older man or woman in the body of Christ? What did you learn from that person?

Have you ever been a mentor to a younger man or woman? How were you able to help him or her? How did you personally benefit from being a mentor?

What are the roles of the younger man and woman in the body of Christ? What kinds of qualities should they be developing?

In what areas do men particularly need each other for accountability? What areas are applicable to women? Do you have someone you can be accountable to and with?

Application - 10 min - Application & prayer regarding topic
End the meeting with a time of encouragement to the group to strengthen the ties between members. Reiterate that all things shared in the group are confidential. Help your members grow in openness and transparency, showing them how this helps them conquer sin and overcome bondage. Pray for any areas in which your cell members express particular struggles.

Thats interesting. Isn't it rather easy to agree on the essential doctrines of Christianity? I mean....I'd say that me and you do Alabaster no? Justification by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ? Would we be going in the same direction there?

So if we're not going in split directions there, then why would you think that I would probably leave you're cell group....if all you talk about are spiritual issues? What have you and I clashed on in the forums? Spiritual issues? Doctrinal stuff?

Or is it more like if you don't grow into our vision of what the church 'community' should be like then you have to go? Hmmmmm? Is your church making social issues into salvation/doctrinal issues?

Nope.

I seem to remember you telling me that if I'm not under the authority of a pastor and don't go to a church building then I'm not IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Are you still standing by that in light of MATT 20:25?

There are no lone rangers in the Body of Christ. We are all parts of one Body. If you want to be on the outside looking in, then the Body cannot use you, as it cannot use independent, rebellious people.

1 Corinthians 12:20-21
Yes, there are many parts, but only one body. The eye can never say to the hand, “I don’t need you.†The head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t nee you.â€

 

[Chris]

Re: What is your church like?

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength;
3. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

do that no problems at church

 

[Alabaster]

Re: What is your church like?

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength;
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

do that no problems at church

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

Strangelove, have you ever been to a church post you being saved?

I've never been to church in my life. Pre or post Salvation.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

Perhaps I can post a sample cell lesson for you:

Prayer- 5 min - Prayer for personal needs within the group

Key Thought: A part of connection in the body of Christ is being accountable to others!

Accountable to others? Hmmmm....the only time I would say I would be accountable to a Brother in Christ is if I sin against him. If I transgress a brother I must apologise and offer an explanation. You wouldn't be much of a brother if you transgressed you're brethren and didn't confess when confronted. In fact the good thing to do would be to confess you're fault to the victim before anyone has called you on it.

Is that what this cell group session is gonna be about? Let's read on:

Only in this way do we have the protection of divine order to keep us walking in the ways of the Lord. Accountability is necessary for all of us. No one is so insignificant that he doesn’t need it, and no one is so important that it doesn’t apply to him. Order and accountability are principles from God’s Word that must be set in place if the body is to accomplish its God-given purpose of

Ok um....certainly making a big case for 'accountability'.

God-given purpose of.....?.....?.....? Can you complete the sentence for us Alabaster so I can see what the purpose of the body is accorcing to you're church?

Discussion - 30 min Read - Titus 2

It is just as important to have your life in order as it is to be in a church that is in order. No matter your age or gender, you are always called to reflect Christ in all situations and seasons of life.

Read Titus 2:1–5 and discuss the role of older men and women in the body of Christ. Why are these traits especially applicable to older people?

Have you ever been influenced by an older man or woman in the body of Christ? What did you learn from that person?

Have you ever been a mentor to a younger man or woman? How were you able to help him or her? How did you personally benefit from being a mentor?

What are the roles of the younger man and woman in the body of Christ? What kinds of qualities should they be developing?

Interesting the red part. Slipping in an ever so subtle 'church order'. This obviously means hierarchy. Important to have a top down system of control?

Andyway, Titus 2:1–5 talks of elders being an example. To live godly lives. Great. and the questions in the study are honest and ask for the members to reflect on those verses and see if they have learnt from the example of elders and have been an example to others. Nothing wrong with that. Although theres nothing about 'accountability' there. Just plain old teaching by example.

Whats next?

In what areas do men particularly need each other for accountability? What areas are applicable to women? Do you have someone you can be accountable to and with?

Ok....big red flag. :help.

I'm accountable (but I wouldn't use that word) to someone if I transgress against them. But this paragraph seems to imply that we need to find an 'accountability buddy'? Is that the correct interpretation of this Alabaster? We should find someone in the church who we can go to and.....what??.......be 'accountable' to and with?

What does that mean? We need to explain our actions to a particular church member even though those actions have nothing to do with them. So that....what?...that member can judge us?......they certainly can't forgive us....that would be the victims job no?

I'll tell you what I think this is. I think this is the church trying to FUSE it's members one to another. To keep them in a tight network. Accountability, in this case means...'hey what happened to you last week? you wern't at the meeting..so wassup?'. This is social issues. This is not spiritual. This is designed to keep the church order tight and it's members in line. It means, if you don't agree with something thats going on in church, then you take that first to you're 'accountability partner' specially selected for you maybe as a mentor so he can 'convince' you to conform to the group-think.

It's just another way of splitting the church up even further to enforce the 'vision'. First into cells and then into partners.

Theres nothin' wrong with having a mentor, I have a very wise one myself who I consult daily and I love her dearly, but thats got nothing to do with accountability for you're life actions. Advice....teaching....counsel....etc....fine.

Application - 10 min - Application & prayer regarding topic
End the meeting with a time of encouragement to the group to strengthen the ties between members. Reiterate that all things shared in the group are confidential. Help your members grow in openness and transparency, showing them how this helps them conquer sin and overcome bondage. Pray for any areas in which your cell members express particular struggles.

Notice the Orwellian double-speak here. strengthen the ties /// overcome bondage. Absolutely classic. The system fuses the members together whilst telling them that it is helping to overcoming bondage. Very clever psychological trick indeed.

Is your church making social issues into salvation/doctrinal issues?

Nope.

So what was your answer to this question?:

In what areas do men particularly need each other for accountability?

There are no lone rangers in the Body of Christ. We are all parts of one Body. If you want to be on the outside looking in, then the Body cannot use you, as it cannot use independent, rebellious people.

I agree. And I'm not a lone ranger. I have Christ. I have my elder mentor for edification and advice. And I have the forums for fellowship. I'm independent in that I am accountable only to God. That doesn't make me rebellious. It makes me a Biblical fundamentalist.

12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,
they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.​

Give account to whom? To their 'mentor'?​

21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted
worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to
stand before the Son of man.​

Accounted worthy by whom? Their 'mentor'? Their cell group? I don't think so.​

14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

​

1 Corinthians 12:20-21
Yes, there are many parts, but only one body. The eye can never say to the hand, “I don’t need you.” The head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t need you.”

I say to the church buildings and apostate false teachers....I don't need you!

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength;
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

do that no problems at church

Do that no problems out of church too.

 

[Mike]

Re: What is your church like?

God-given purpose of.....?.....?.....? Can you complete the sentence for us Alabaster so I can see what the purpose of the body is accorcing to you're church?

SL, you're making it sound like Alabaster needs to answer questions for a group of people, but from what I've seen, only you feel you have no need for a church community. Consider this...

Hebrews 13
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30249">7</sup> Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30250">8</sup> Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
[later in the chapter on the same topic]
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30259">17</sup> Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you."

Earlier in Hebrews

Hebrews 10
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30157">23</sup> Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30158">24</sup> And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30159">25</sup> not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

I can't comprehend how you can read these words and not see the call to congregate with other Christians whenever it is possible. If you were on an island all by yourself, that would be one thing. But you're "putting yourself on your own island" by your own decision. You can't replace true fellowship with a discussion board. It's one thing to sit on your own behind your keyboard. It's another to look a brother in the eye and both encourage and be encouraged. This isn't just a fabricated notion. Hebrews tells us specifically to do this!

1 Cor 14
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-28705">26</sup> What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up."

Not "if" we come, but "when" we come.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

SL, you're making it sound like Alabaster needs to answer questions for a group of people, but from what I've seen, only you feel you have no need for a church community. Consider this...

Hebrews 13
"<SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-30249>7</SUP> Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-30250>8</SUP> Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
[later in the chapter on the same topic]
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-30259>17</SUP> Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you."

Thers no mention of AUTHORITY in the KJV or Greek.

Tell me does you're pastor have authority over you Mike? If he does then he is going against Jesus' direct teachings. Or do you deny that?

Earlier in Hebrews

Hebrews 10
"<SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-30157>23</SUP> Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-30158>24</SUP> And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-30159>25</SUP> not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

I can't comprehend how you can read these words and not see the call to congregate with other Christians whenever it is possible. If you were on an island all by yourself, that would be one thing. But you're "putting yourself on your own island" by your own decision. You can't replace true fellowship with a discussion board. It's one thing to sit on your own behind your keyboard. It's another to look a brother in the eye and both encourage and be encouraged. This isn't just a fabricated notion. Hebrews tells us specifically to do this!

1 Cor 14
"<SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-28705>26</SUP> What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up."

Not "if" we come, but "when" we come.

You're wrong friend. Hebrews does NOT specify the location or the method of assembling. How many times do I have to say that?

If you don't think the forums are real then what are you doing here?

If I assemble with Christians in the market or the library or on a street corner or in my place of business (which I frequently do) would that be ok? Or must I go to 'church'?