IS DEMONIC POSSESSION REAL ?

[GodsGrace]

jeremiah1five are your thoughts evil CONTINUALLY ?

Agreed.
Even thieves must think about something other than stealing once in a while.

And I believe our new member has satan on the mind too much.

Didn't Paul instruct the Philippians to think of things from above?

 

[jeremiah1five]

jeremiah1five are your thoughts evil CONTINUALLY ?

After 46 years of dealing with my flesh as Christain my thoughts are not evil continually.
And I couldn't put a percentage on it as to how much is today. But the things that had me bound as baby do not have me bound today.
I have a new bondage.
This site!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Who was the authorized version authorized by?

Which version [English?] for there were translations that were written by others like Wycliffe, Luther, Tyndale, Calvin [Latin], Stephanus, Elzevirs, and others. But the line of English translations I use come by way of those people in small measure and others to a greater degree:
Tyndale, Matthew Coverdale, Bishops, The Great Bible, Geneva [these were also Authorized Versions in England], and finally King James.
For God's purpose He is the one to set man on thrones. He sets on UP, and He sets one DOWN.
And the man of the hour with regard to the KJV is King James I.
He was incidentally Head of both Church and State at the time in the Anglican Church trying to keep the Popes hands out of England, and Europe as a whole.

 

[hawkman]

After 46 years of dealing with my flesh as Christain my thoughts are not evil continually.

If the above is true then the statement below is not .

You see, God said that man's thoughts were evil CONTINUALLY, and this includes born again Christians.

 

[GodsGrace]

Messenger is the definition of the Greek word "angelos" as per Strong's. Agreed.

Yes, you have difficulty with Isaiah 45:7 which says among other things that God created "evil."

In my previous post I explained to you WHY it does not mean evil,
and WHY IF it does, we have a serious conflict regarding God's nature and character.

"Scholar" comes from the English word "scholastic." (Greek: "skholastikos") which means a person who devotes his time to learning.
The original manuscripts/texts of the Bible as a whole are inspired of God. The Old Testament is written in Hebrew and Chaldee. The New Testament in Greek and small parts of Aramaic. In the beginning the Churches of Asia Minor circulated these manuscripts of epistles, etc., among themselves. Knowing the Greek and Hebrew is important to study the bible because it is the WORD of God and it is very, very important to understand what God has said in the language of the original.

Where are the originals?
The WORD of God does not mean that God wrote every single word.
It means that the bible was inspired by God.
He inspired men to know what to write through the Holy Spirit.

verb (used with object),in·spired, in·spir·ing.

1. to fill with an animating, quickening, or exalting influence:His courage inspired his followers.
2. to produce or arouse (a feeling, thought, etc.):to inspire confidence in others.
   

It is important also especially today to have a good translation. BUT we cannot get good doctrinal learning from a translation. God says what He means, and He means what He says. It is our responsibility to know and understand what He's said in Scripture.

The bible is translated as well as could be.
It's translated well enough for anyone reading it, who so desires, to become familiar with God, His Son Jesus, and what He taught we must do to attain salvation.
No matter which version one reads, this information will be available to him.

There is more in Scripture than what Jesus taught. Although I agree it is important to know and understand what Jesus said, it is also important to know what Scripture says about Him and these things are found everywhere in Scripture:

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Jn 5:39

We are commanded to know and understand the whole of Scriptures and not only apply it to our daily living but also that once we see the same Jesus and say the same thing as God THEN we can have true fellowship:

Is this what John 5:39 states? Sounds like the opposite to me.
John 5:39 NASB
39“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 5:39 NLT
39“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! 40Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.

Jesus is stating that the scriptures to not save, but only point to HIM for salvation.
A written Word does not save...
Only Jesus can save us.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 2:42.

Only through seeing the same Jesus (doctrine/teaching) can we then have fellowship, union in breaking of bread, and our prayers being unhindered. When Christians are not united in seeing the same Jesus (many doctrines and denominations, etc.) our fellowship is broken and division and schism occurs.

There IS a way to understand why evil is here and why God allows it: Scripture.
Those questions are answered in Scripture. But Scripture can only be unlocked and understood through the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit our understanding of God and this "so-great salvation" is flawed. However, there are things unbelievers without the Holy Spirit can understand from the Bible. Here's a simple example: "Jesus wept" (Jn. 11:35.) It's not hard to understand this with unsaved eyes and understanding. But the whole of God's Redemptive history with man is more than one passage of Scripture. And God not only commands us to know and understand His Word, but He also expects it.
And you're right, there are two ways in this life: Life and death. Good and evil.

I agree. But we are in constant battle with our flesh and the vanities of our mind. Our thought and attitudes can be controlled and influenced by God, or our thoughts and attitudes will be controlled by our carnal mind (ourselves.)

Nope.

On all the threads I post I have done that. I have posted what I know about demonic possession and sub-topics like devils and evil spirits. And knowing the exact meaning God gives us on these words is important in becoming an overcoming conqueror in Christ. It is the great general in warfare that knows more about his enemy than the enemy knows of themselves. God has given me a love and desire for His Word. He does this with every believer. But not every believer is committed or once saved they fall in with a bad or false church. Personal sin also blunts our love for God and His Word. Or time interferes. Or family and other involvements we have in life take up our time to study. Or a Christian doesn't know how to study or doesn't have good references and sources to bolster his or her studies. Or a believer simply has a corrupt bible translation they use. Many reasons influence our choices in life. And our sin nature unrestricted drives our Christianity and devotions to God. I'm sure you know these things.
Our faith in God is founded on our knowledge of God's Word. The more knowledge we possess, the more faith (trust) we are to have in God. And it is God who determines how much faith one of His people shall have, and how much faith founded on knowledge a generation of Christians shall have for God gives light and He darkens minds. And that's where all our battles are fought: in the mind.

I agree with the above, except for the part that states the version of our bible is of extreme importance.
Unless it's the NWT or the NT commented by John MacArthur, I do believe they're all the same.

I don't know about knowledge making us more faithful.
In many instances it does.
But I also know persons that love God and have NEVER read the bible.
What do you make of that?

 

[GodsGrace]

Which version [English?] for there were translations that were written by others like Wycliffe, Luther, Tyndale, Calvin [Latin], Stephanus, Elzevirs, and others. But the line of English translations I use come by way of those people in small measure and others to a greater degree:
Tyndale, Matthew Coverdale, Bishops, The Great Bible, Geneva [these were also Authorized Versions in England], and finally King James.
For God's purpose He is the one to set man on thrones. He sets on UP, and He sets one DOWN.
And the man of the hour with regard to the KJV is King James I.
He was incidentally Head of both Church and State at the time in the Anglican Church trying to keep the Popes hands out of England, and Europe as a whole.

OK. So you know the KJV was authorized BY A MAN.
It wasn't authorized by God Himself.
I don't want to derail the thread, but I've never understood the facsination with the King James.
We have a lot more information today and new manuscripts have been found upon which to base translations.

I also believe, unless we're at a scholarly level of discussion, it does us little good to know the EXACT meaning of each word.

We need to know and love Jesus...that's my point.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If the above is true then the statement below is not .

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Rom. 12:2.

Our minds are renewed when we read and study the Mind of Christ which is the written Word of God. The more we dwell on spiritual things the more our minds are renewed, not perfected. I'm sure you've had a sinful thought now and then. Maybe you been angry, or impatient, or even looked upon a brethren with a judgmental attitude because if you say you have no sin you are a liar and the truth is not in you:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 Jn 1:8.

'Nuff said.

 

[jeremiah1five]

OK. So you know the KJV was authorized BY A MAN.
It wasn't authorized by God Himself.

You don't seem to grasp that God puts a man (or woman) on a throne. That God gives men (and women) authority in our governments and other forms of government. That at the time of King James ascension to the throne of England James authorized a new translation for his people. If you know anything about bibliology and the various factors God ordained to produce an English translation for the English-speaking people and the history of the Church you would see that God controls the times and the seasons, people and events, and that God's Promise to provide His Word to His people is a Promise He has kept.
The environment for a new English translation was ripe and God moved King James towards that very purpose. You should spend some time learning from good sources how we common folk got our bible, but I'm talking about the KJV because there is no one higher than a king in the realm of human governments.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I've never understood the facsination with the King James.
We have a lot more information today and new manuscripts have been found upon which to base translations.

The "information" you think you know come from two men in 1854 who got up and decided to "revise" the King James Version. In 1881 they finally published their Version except it wasn't a revision, it was a whole new translation. But the problem was they used two main manuscripts called the Alexandrian and Sinaiticus Greek texts. Texts that were corrupt, never used by the True Historical Church, and texts that came from Alexandria, Egypt (Egypt - that should be a clue), and in the Vatican library in a wastebasket (that should be another clue.)
From these texts came the American Standard Version (1901) and its own revision the New American Standard Version (NASB) in 1952. From there the Greek texts of these two men (Westcott and Hort) they developed are used to make every translation known to man, from The Living Bible (paraphrase) to the Jerusalem Bible (1966) to the NIV (1973 & 1978), the NKJV (1982) the NLT (1995) and every other English translation on the market today. And the market is flooded with all different kinds of versions for the English people - and that's only the English-speaking people. Talk about CONFUSION! But there were men like Scrivener and John W. Burgon who investigated what these two men (Scrivener was among the group of translators with Westcott and Hort and every time he challenged them he was out-voted by the rest of the translators.) Burgon challenged what Westcott and Hort did and in his studies found that they omitted entire verses, omitted thousands of words, added words, changed words, and every other tactic they used to make a translation in their image.
Who gave them the authority to change God's Word?

I also believe, unless we're at a scholarly level of discussion, it does us little good to know the EXACT meaning of each word.
We need to know and love Jesus...that's my point.

I have to go. I'll pick up this last statement later.

 

[JLB]

JLB, I am a true-born-of-God believer since 1977. July 7.
I been water baptized, spoke tongues, had prophecy spoken over me, had hands laid on me, know my place in the Body of Christ, know my spiritual gifts, heard the voice of God, and God has spoken inspirationally to me several times through Scripture. I use the KJV. So, for me the KJV being called the Authorized Version, God speaking to me through that translation settles that question for the Spirit of Truth will not use corruption or lies to grow one of God's kids.
How about you?

Thanks for answering the question I asked.

Who said anything about the Spirit of truth using corruption or lies to grow God's kids?



JLB

 

[jeremiah1five]

In my previous post I explained to you WHY it does not mean evil,
and WHY IF it does, we have a serious conflict regarding God's nature and character.

Let's look at "evil" in Isaiah 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7.

From Strong's:
Transliteration: raʿ
Phonetic Pronunciation: rah

English Words used in KJV:
evil 442
wickedness 59
wicked 25
mischief 21
hurt 20
bad 13
trouble 10
sore 9
affliction 6
ill 5
adversity 4
favoured 3
harm 3
naught 3
noisome 2
grievous 2
sad 2
miscellaneous translations 34
[Total Count: 663]
The majority of times [442 times or over two-thirds of the total] it is translated as "evil."

Here is the definition:
from <H7489> (ra`a`); bad or (as noun) evil (natural or moral)

So, yes, in Isaiah 45:7 the word means [morally or naturally] evil, or wicked, or wickedness.
Isaiah says that God says He created [morally] evil.

So, put that in your theology. God created evil.
But how?
By creating a sinful man (Adam.) That's the only way God can create a moral being. For there is ONLY ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE (not even Adam at his creation.)

And you're right. We would have a serious problem with God if He created a morally evil (sinful) man. It would impugn the Righteousness of God to create an unrighteous being. His character would be in question. But this is not hard to understand how God was able to do this.
A Lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world (Rev. 13:8.)

Where are the originals?

The Church today considers them lost.
But there are over 5,200 copies of the originals. Not exact copies. But copies, nonetheless. And there are writings of church fathers that contain Scripture passages, lectionaries that contain Scripture passages, and by carefully comparing all these copies 'we' are able to come to the truth of what the originals say.
The Old Testament is a different story. The "Jews" were the owners and possessors of their Bible/Scriptures otherwise known as the oracle of God. Their method of copying was very strict. If it wasn't word for word exactly like the copy before it, it was destroyed, and the copyist had to start again. If one jot or tittle was missed or not in the correct position all that work was scratched. Theirs was called the Masoretic Text.

The WORD of God does not mean that God wrote every single word.
It means that the bible was inspired by God.
He inspired men to know what to write through the Holy Spirit.

verb (used with object),in·spired, in·spir·ing.

1. to fill with an animating, quickening, or exalting influence:His courage inspired his followers.
2. to produce or arouse (a feeling, thought, etc.):to inspire confidence in others.

The originals were inspired. They were moved upon by the Holy Spirit. And the writers of the Scripture retained their cognitive faculties. But there is something also to be said of the KJV. God was also overseeing its production. And the KJV occurred at a time when everything was in place for a new translation for the English-speaking people. The theology of the time was purer (Puritans), and the linguists were incomparable to today's linguists. There was a more respectful attitude (there's that word again) towards what the translators were doing and held the Scriptures in highest regard. Heresy was almost non-existent as all those councils dealt with those various issues through the centuries and came up with the best translation in human history. The translators were devout men, and coming out of the dark ages and the Renaissance it was God's timing to publish His Word in English. The Greek Scripture texts they had used are called the Received Text. It's a fascinating subject to study and very important.

The bible is translated as well as could be.
It's translated well enough for anyone reading it, who so desires, to become familiar with God, His Son Jesus, and what He taught we must do to attain salvation.
No matter which version one reads, this information will be available to him.

No. It does matter which Version one uses. It all comes down to the Greek texts used and who is translating them. The KJV can very well be called the Word of God.

Is this what John 5:39 states? Sounds like the opposite to me.
John 5:39 NASB
39“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 5:39 NLT
39“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! 40Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.

Jesus is referring to the Old Testament Scriptures. Read it in the KJV. The wording is different and makes all the difference, from verbs and nouns, genitives, senses, inflection, syntax, and word definition. There is a great difference between the KJV and all these modern-day new-age translations. A BIG difference.

Jesus is stating that the scriptures to not save, but only point to HIM for salvation.
A written Word does not save...
Only Jesus can save us.

Peter says we are saved by the Word of God:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Pe 1:23.

Both written but originally spoken before God began to create.

I agree with the above, except for the part that states the version of our bible is of extreme importance.
Unless it's the NWT or the NT commented by John MacArthur, I do believe they're all the same.

They are not the same.

I don't know about knowledge making us more faithful.
In many instances it does.
But I also know persons that love God and have NEVER read the bible.
What do you make of that?

To them He would be "The Unknown God."
How can you love someone you know nothing about?
You can't.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Thanks for answering the question I asked.

Who said anything about the Spirit of truth using corruption or lies to grow God's kids?
JLB

I did. Can't happen. Impossible.

 

[hawkman]

The bible is translated as well as could be.
It's translated well enough for anyone reading it, who so desires, to become familiar with God, His Son Jesus, and what He taught we must do to attain salvation.
No matter which version one reads, this information will be available to him.

Yes , even The Message .

But I also know persons that love God and have NEVER read the bible.
What do you make of that?

English Standard Version
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Praise God !

 

[JLB]

I did. Can't happen. Impossible.

My question to you is…

Who said anything about the Spirit of truth using corruption or lies to grow God's kids?

What post number did someone say this?




JLB

 

[jeremiah1five]

My question to you is…
Who said anything about the Spirit of truth using corruption or lies to grow God's kids?
What post number did someone say this?
JLB

I said it.

 

[JLB]

I said it.

Why would you accuse the Spirit of truth of using corruption or lies to grow God's kids?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why would you accuse the Spirit of truth of using corruption or lies to grow God's kids?

I didn't.
I said He doesn't use lies in any form externally.
It is contrary to His Nature and Ministry.

 

[Scripture Says]

jeremiah1five said:
After 46 years of dealing with my flesh as Christain my thoughts are not evil continually.
If the above is true then the statement below is not .
jeremiah1five said:
You see, God said that man's thoughts were evil CONTINUALLY, and this includes born again Christians

Ya notice he didnt answer this one...

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ya notice he didnt answer this one...

Death is the penalty for sin.
We still die.
So, how do you explain that Christ died the penalty of our sin yet we still die?
And when one becomes born again they have to learn a new way of life.
They don't accomplish it all in one day.
I've backslid several times since my conversion bu this time I have been faithful for over 23 years.
My sins become less and less as I am transformed more and more day after day into the image of Christ.
The sins that caused me to backslide I don't commit anymore.
But that doesn't mean I don't sin.
Nor does it mean you don't sin either.
So, get off your high horse as though you don't sin.
Because you do.
Now what?

 

[Scripture Says]

Jeremiah you Still didnt answer Hawkman @post 164....


You referred to it twice but never answered it... why is it you can talk forever on here but when faced with something you said that is opposed to something else you said... you cant seem to put 2 and 2 together and get 4?

 

[jeremiah1five]

After 46 years of dealing with my flesh as Christain my thoughts are not evil continually.

If the above is true then the statement below is not .

You see, God said that man's thoughts were evil CONTINUALLY, and this includes born again Christians.

If a Christian does not read and study the Scripture continually their thoughts will not be of God but of the flesh.
And if their thoughts are of the flesh they will not be of God.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Rom. 12:2.

The evil and sin that Christians think will depend on how much they've allowed God to order their thoughts and when ANY Christian holds to false beliefs this is idol worship for they are not worshiping the One true God but a fallacy about Him. This, too, is evil continually until they bring their thoughts and theology in line with the truth of Scripture. So, there are various factors involved but the above is the main one.