IS DEMONIC POSSESSION REAL ?
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What I noticed in some of the comments on this subjects is a circular reasoning that really isn't reasoning at all.
I asked what are demons and evil spirits and the answer comes back "Legion."
I ask where they come from, and the answer comes back "the demonic realm."
Some say demons and evil spirits are fallen angels.
But no one has been able to answer me that if demons and evil spirits are fallen angels why the Holy Spirit did not just use the Hebrew "makek" and the Greek "angelos" which are the words translated "angel" respectively in the Bible.
In the Old Testament, evil spirits appear in the book of Judges and in Kings. In the Septuagint, made for the Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria, the Greek ángelos (ἄγγελος, "messenger") translates the Hebrew word mal'akh, while daimónion (δαιμόνιον; pl. daimónia (δαιμόνια)), which carries the meaning of a natural spirit that is less than divine (see supernatural), translates the Hebrew word shedim as well as the word se'irim in some verses and words for idols (foreign deities), and describes the being Asmodeus in the Book of Tobit. The use of daimōn in the New Testament's original Greek text caused the Greek word to be applied to the Judeo-Christian concept of an evil spirit by the early second century AD.
Wiki.
So, what believers have been taught since the second century comes from Platonic thought and from the Apocrypha. There is no original thinking among believers in that they have been ingrained with belief's that may not even be Scripture for so long that genuine study of this subject is practically non-existent.
Christians believe demons/devils/evil spirits are angels but cannot explain why the Hebrew "malek" and the Greek "angelos" is not used to define "angels." So, if "angels" are not being identified then there must be something else that is being identified.
But not "angels."
I asked what are demons and evil spirits and the answer comes back "Legion."
I ask where they come from, and the answer comes back "the demonic realm."
Some say demons and evil spirits are fallen angels.
But no one has been able to answer me that if demons and evil spirits are fallen angels why the Holy Spirit did not just use the Hebrew "makek" and the Greek "angelos" which are the words translated "angel" respectively in the Bible.
In the Old Testament, evil spirits appear in the book of Judges and in Kings. In the Septuagint, made for the Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria, the Greek ángelos (ἄγγελος, "messenger") translates the Hebrew word mal'akh, while daimónion (δαιμόνιον; pl. daimónia (δαιμόνια)), which carries the meaning of a natural spirit that is less than divine (see supernatural), translates the Hebrew word shedim as well as the word se'irim in some verses and words for idols (foreign deities), and describes the being Asmodeus in the Book of Tobit. The use of daimōn in the New Testament's original Greek text caused the Greek word to be applied to the Judeo-Christian concept of an evil spirit by the early second century AD.
Wiki.
So, what believers have been taught since the second century comes from Platonic thought and from the Apocrypha. There is no original thinking among believers in that they have been ingrained with belief's that may not even be Scripture for so long that genuine study of this subject is practically non-existent.
Christians believe demons/devils/evil spirits are angels but cannot explain why the Hebrew "malek" and the Greek "angelos" is not used to define "angels." So, if "angels" are not being identified then there must be something else that is being identified.
But not "angels."
Every Christian that is half knowledgeable knows that an angel is a messenger.
I haven't replied yet to your other post to me which represents quite a conflict in the character of God.
I'll get to that let today.
I fell upon this and just want to say that you like words and are a scholar of words.
I don't think words interest Christians too much. Most of them try to stay away FROM THE GREEK...
We tend to think that perhaps it's better to concentrate on Jesus and what He taught and try to move that teaching to how we live our lives.
There is NO WAY for us to understand WHY evil is here or how it could be that God allows it.
All we know for sure is that there are two systems operating in this world paradigm...
one is good
and one is evil.
The important thing, I believe, is to honor the good force, or whatever you want to call it, I call it God,
and do our best to keep away from the evil force, which I call satan ---a real being.
Everything else is just talk to pass the time of day.
Unless you can explain WHY it's so important to have the exact meaning of Angel or Demon or where they come from and what they are.
My question to you is why are you trying to hide the devil and his demons with your blatant denial?
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:10-12
- against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
rulers of darkness —
Strong's G2888 - kosmokratōr
- lord of the world, prince of this age
- the devil and his demons
For G3754 we G2254 wrestle G3823 not G3756 against G2076 G4314 flesh G4561 and G2532blood, G129 but G235 against G4314 principalities, G746 against G4314 powers, G1849against G4314 the rulers G2888 of the darkness G4655 of this G5127 world, G165against G4314 spiritual G4152 wickedness G4189 in G1722 high G2032 places.
- spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places
Jesus and His followers cast out demons and evil unclean spirits.
And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Matthew 10:1
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them. And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. And there was great joy in that city. Acts 8:5-8
Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” And this she did for many days.
But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour. Acts 16:16-18
Wake Up!
JLB
Messenger is the definition of the Greek word "angelos" as per Strong's. Agreed.
Yes, you have difficulty with Isaiah 45:7 which says among other things that God created "evil."
"Scholar" comes from the English word "scholastic." (Greek: "skholastikos") which means a person who devotes his time to learning.
The original manuscripts/texts of the Bible as a whole are inspired of God. The Old Testament is written in Hebrew and Chaldee. The New Testament in Greek and small parts of Aramaic. In the beginning the Churches of Asia Minor circulated these manuscripts of epistles, etc., among themselves. Knowing the Greek and Hebrew is important to study the bible because it is the WORD of God and it is very, very important to understand what God has said in the language of the original. It is important also especially today to have a good translation. BUT we cannot get good doctrinal learning from a translation. God says what He means, and He means what He says. It is our responsibility to know and understand what He's said in Scripture.
There is more in Scripture than what Jesus taught. Although I agree it is important to know and understand what Jesus said, it is also important to know what Scripture says about Him and these things are found everywhere in Scripture:
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Jn 5:39.
We are commanded to know and understand the whole of Scriptures and not only apply it to our daily living but also that once we see the same Jesus and say the same thing as God THEN we can have true fellowship:
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 2:42.
Only through seeing the same Jesus (doctrine/teaching) can we then have fellowship, union in breaking of bread, and our prayers being unhindered. When Christians are not united in seeing the same Jesus (many doctrines and denominations, etc.) our fellowship is broken and division and schism occurs.
There IS a way to understand why evil is here and why God allows it: Scripture.
Those questions are answered in Scripture. But Scripture can only be unlocked and understood through the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit our understanding of God and this "so-great salvation" is flawed. However, there are things unbelievers without the Holy Spirit can understand from the Bible. Here's a simple example: "Jesus wept" (Jn. 11:35.) It's not hard to understand this with unsaved eyes and understanding. But the whole of God's Redemptive history with man is more than one passage of Scripture. And God not only commands us to know and understand His Word, but He also expects it.
And you're right, there are two ways in this life: Life and death. Good and evil.
I agree. But we are in constant battle with our flesh and the vanities of our mind. Our thought and attitudes can be controlled and influenced by God, or our thoughts and attitudes will be controlled by our carnal mind (ourselves.)
Nope.
On all the threads I post I have done that. I have posted what I know about demonic possession and sub-topics like devils and evil spirits. And knowing the exact meaning God gives us on these words is important in becoming an overcoming conqueror in Christ. It is the great general in warfare that knows more about his enemy than the enemy knows of themselves. God has given me a love and desire for His Word. He does this with every believer. But not every believer is committed or once saved they fall in with a bad or false church. Personal sin also blunts our love for God and His Word. Or time interferes. Or family and other involvements we have in life take up our time to study. Or a Christian doesn't know how to study or doesn't have good references and sources to bolster his or her studies. Or a believer simply has a corrupt bible translation they use. Many reasons influence our choices in life. And our sin nature unrestricted drives our Christianity and devotions to God. I'm sure you know these things.
Our faith in God is founded on our knowledge of God's Word. The more knowledge we possess, the more faith (trust) we are to have in God. And it is God who determines how much faith one of His people shall have, and how much faith founded on knowledge a generation of Christians shall have for God gives light and He darkens minds. And that's where all our battles are fought: in the mind.
Yes it’s all Real, the issue is that they didn’t have Neuroscience before and Diagrams of the Brain, but so there are many different ways this can all happen but let’s get into 2. If we look at Arts, or Machines and things, everything comes from the Sky. Books and then like Cell Phones or Computers are obvious examples, but it could be like any kind of Video Games, TV, it could be Drugs, or something with other People you do, but it brings your Head kind of Down in Study or even Reverence of the Sky without even looking at the Sky, and all of it leads back to the Sun, and the Planets, and the Order of everything, but it can seem to pull you away. And then if someone gets into lying you can see someone be different People just walking into different rooms and things, sometimes it’s like an Undercover Cop type thing where the Person is thrust into this or that situation, responding to things they didn’t really choose for themselves, and something comes up in them to meet the Challenge. This happens in all kinds of different ways, and we can start to talk about what it is in the Brain.
I'm not trying to hide these subjects. I'm trying to understand them.
"against the wiles of the 'devil.'"
The Greek word is "diabolos" and it means "to traduce: an accuser, slanderer, false accuser."
This can be ANYONE we deal with. Even ourselves.
I believe God is Sovereign over His creation. I reject the theology that any angel, fallen or elect has free will to do as they please, especially since Peter says God has reserved them in chains of darkness, the fallen angels, that is. So, if all we have to contend with as Christians in this world is the sin nature in man, then Ephesians 6:10-12 makes perfect sense given that Paul is expressing all these antagonists being "rulers of the darkness of this age," or the Church Age. Taking this [sin nature] as the only thing we have to deal with we come to the carnal mind. This includes our attitudes. Our attitudes before God are important. When we come to God in prayer, we must have a good attitude. Our worship is affected by our attitudes. Everything we do in this life is affected and influenced by our attitudes. We can say a good attitude is a good 'spirit.' And that a bad attitude is a bad 'spirit.' Every person Christ dealt with either had a good 'spirit' (Nicodemus), or a bad 'spirit' (the two demoniacs in Mark 5.) Since Jesus Christ was the Son of God it was His business to reveal Himself to His people. Having a person screaming and calling out He was the Son of God disturbed Him because He wanted to reveal Himself to His people and in His way. And there were times He just told them to "Shut up!" But He was dealing with people of bad disposition or attitude not Lucifer, or Satan, or fallen angels. There is no 'demonic realm.' There is only sinful man and all that entails. If any angels interact in our world (and I don't necessarily mean a person), it will be an elect angel. And if God wants to give them a body He can. But fallen angels don't have creative powers. Neither do elect angels. They cannot of their own will create a body and appear on the planet. Especially since God has all the fallen angels chained up.
As above.
As above.
As above
As above
I woke up at 4:30 MST.
How about you?
The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’s;
But the earth He has given to the children of men.
Psalms 115:16
Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion…
Genesis 1:28
Jesus demonstrated what man is supposed to do on earth.
He is our pattern.
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Acts 10:38
…For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
JLB
God gave me spiritual gifts, but He is still Sovereign over its use.
Only in obedience do they work. Same with the earth. But do we REALLY have dominion over the earth and everything in it?
We can't make fish get in the net using our dominion the way Christ did.
HE was the One to whom God gave the earth to. But it still belongs to God and His Christ.
The earth is God's footstool.
HIS footstool. And Christ is God. Makes sense to me if the earth was given to man. One Man. Jesus Christ. It's His footstool.
HIS footstool. Not ours.
Do you understand a "pyschic" is a person who uses their God given gift for financial profit, by the power of a spirit of divination.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Romans 11:29
JLB
The gift(s) of God are genuine.
Human ability - not from Satan or any 'evil one' - is a false gift. A deception.
Peter says the angels that sinned God has chained up.
All of them. All one-third.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment. 2 Pet. 2:4.
Not a few. Not many. But ALL of them.
So, now all we have to deal with in this world and in this life is our sin nature and the sin nature of others.
The Father is set against the world:
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 Jn 2:15–16.
The Son [the Word of Truth] is set against the devil [Greek: "devil" diabolos meaning traducer, false accuser, liar]:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 Jn 3:7–8.
The Spirit is set against the flesh:
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Gal. 5:17.
The world, the flesh, and the devil [liars] are all that we as Christians have to contend with.
ALL the angels that sinned are locked up in chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment.
The Catholic Church released a Document about Gifts among the Laity.
Letter Iuvenescit Ecclesia to the Bishops of the Catholic Church Regarding the Relationship Between Hierarchical and Charismatic Gifts in the Life and the Mission of the Church (15 May 2016)
Letter Iuvenescit Ecclesia to the Bishops of the Catholic Church Regarding the Relationship Between Hierarchical and Charismatic Gifts in the Life and the Mission of the Church (15 May 2016)
www.vatican.va
There is a kind of Pentecostal thing. Where everyone can start to understand each other around the World, we are using the Sky to do it this Time. But there are People that like have Angelic Languages they say they speak, in Tongues and things, and there is a Pentecost happening now where like different Countries are all kind of understanding each other. But it’s not happening maybe the right way, but it is happening.
If you look at Azazel and the others they come in Enoch 6-8 and Breed with Human Women, in 9 the Archangels ask God for help, and in 10 the Flood. Then in 15 it’s wash, rinse, repeat and the Angels are making Watchers and Giants.
Azazel gave Humans Blades and Perfume, his Brothers taught the Humans Astrology and Witchcraft, Roots, Enchantments, all kinds of Arts and Sciences, the Humans were supposed to be untouched by Knowledge of Good and Evil, the Serpent gave them Knowledge, and the Angels gave them War, Ego, Weapons, Flowers and Scents, like a Kama Sutra, this is what happened with the Angels, and the Humans learned War and Heroism, they had Homer (which means “Hostage”) explain everything for them about themselves.
So the Breastplate that’s what I’m getting to, the Angels gave the Humans all that and the Breastplate the Jewish Priests Wore forever after, Azazel gave them that. And I point out this to say that the Human Fall happened, the Angelic Fall happened, Fallen Angels are in chains awaiting Judgement, see Jude and Enoch 2. This also gets to Nephilim and things and not assuming they are all Evil as Natural Born People who thought they were full Blooded Humans. We have to accept it happened, and like Knowledge, the Breastplate and our Angelic Heritages are of extreme importance. Like a Creation event, like Adam and Eve happening again, but it was the Angels and God said “Clean it up” in Enoch 10, but it happened and we can’t all just think all our Gifts are from Satan.
JLB, I am a true-born-of-God believer since 1977. July 7.
I been water baptized, spoke tongues, had prophecy spoken over me, had hands laid on me, know my place in the Body of Christ, know my spiritual gifts, heard the voice of God, and God has spoken inspirationally to me several times through Scripture. I use the KJV. So, for me the KJV being called the Authorized Version, God speaking to me through that translation settles that question for the Spirit of Truth will not use corruption or lies to grow one of God's kids.
How about you?
God created a sinful man?
That's interesting...
Genesis 1 states that everything God created was good.
Genesis 1:31
31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good.
If God made man sinful, how could that be good?
You've made up some kind of theology all your own and are causing MANY conflicts in scripture.
If God said everything He made was very good....
And He had already created man in verse 27...
Does this mean:
1. God was lying in verse 31
2. He doesn't know the difference between good and evil.
Again, I repeat, you're teaching the reformed faith here.
What you're saying is that GOD WANTS EVIL.
If the devil is obeying God, and He continues to do evil,
then it is God that is CAUSING EVIL.
Another conflict.
You don't believe a person could be possessed by an evil spirit?
That's sweet.
I'm not responding to statements of nonsense.
All I'll say is that the devil does not make anyone sin.
His INFLUENCE makes persons sin.
Our sin nature, pre being born again, tends to hear the words of satan.
Romans 5:12
12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
The above does not mention satan causing persons to sin.
Ephesians 2:3
3Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Ditto
If God created evil, then you're again causing a big conflict found in the bible.
There is one verse stating that God caused chaos and this by REMOVING HIMSELF from a situation.
Now let's look at other verses that state that God is good.
Big conflict, I'd say.
Psalm 34:8
8Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good! Blessed is the man who takes refuge in him!
Psalm 107:1
1Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever!
James 1:17
17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.
1 John 4:8
8Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Nahum 1:7
7The Lord is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble; he knows those who take refuge in him.
John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
2 or 3 verses would be sufficient to cause the conflict.
But I posted more and there are plenty more...
let me know if you need to read them.
I don't know what you're talking about.
You throw phrases around loosely without taking heed of what you post.
If you're controlled by satan, you're possessed by satan.
I'm happy that you know.
At least one person knows.
This is great.
