IS DEMONIC POSSESSION REAL ?

[GodsGrace]

By creating a sinful man (Adam) God set in motion all the evil in the world past, present, and future. There is nothing in the universe that God did not ordain. But the universe is not eternal. Neither was Adam. Nor the angels. ONLY God is eternal. So, any creation of His could not be eternal. It was created to die and diminish into chaos. This is called the law of entropy.
Rightly dividing the Word of God will lead the true believer to the ultimate conclusion that God is Sovereign over ALL creation, whether a planet, comet, exploding star, black holes, angels, or man.

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Is 45:6–7.

Everything in creation is the result of God. Everything. And believing God is Sovereign over ALL things in creation fills me with such assurance as believer that all is well, that all will be alright in the end. And nobody wants all this to end more than God.

Ok. So you're reformed.
Even Sproul used Isaiah 45:6-7.

I don't know why there's evil in the world.
But the solution is certainly not that God created evil or uses evil to His own good pleasure/purpose.
If God created evil, I do not wish to serve that God.

Now I'll go back and reply to your post no. 86.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's an arrogant attitude to think when a Christian is undergoing some spiritual attack that Satan himself is involved. How can that be? He can be in one place at a TIME and I'm sure he's not even involved in such attack especially when man has a fallen, sinful nature that is STILL a part of the Christian. THINK. Satan could do nothing to Job without God's PERMISSION and when it came it was given with RESTRICTION.
BUT WHO was REALLY behind all the tribulation (evil?) Job experienced?
It was GOD.

We know where we both stand on God being behind evil.
If God is all-good, 1 John 4:8, He cannot be creating evil.
If He is, we have a big discrepancy caused in scripture.
God is either good, or He is not. He can't be both.
If He created evil...He is NOT good.

I do agree that satan could be in only one place at one time.
I know he cannot know our thoughts but only our spoken words.
I also know that all the angels that fell (1/3 of them) are demons living in the demon world with satan.

God allows evil....it's different than creating evil.
Why He allows it, I would think none of us knows, except the reformed, they have the mystery solved by
using the Sovereignty of God to mean that He causes everything. Including evil.

3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3.

Satan doesn't cause evil that befalls man. Man's sinful nature when expressed does all the damage that is self-afflicted on man and mankind. This is why the Ten Commandments and the other commands of God such as life for life, smite for smite, tooth for tooth were graciously given by God to control that sinful nature.

Sounds great.
But when Adam ate of the forbidden fruit he lost his rapport with God, other humans and nature.
The evil man does to himself might explain some types of evil,
but how do you explain evil in nature?
How do you explain the evil animals suffer?
Is a hurricane a good or an evil?
If an animal gets cancer, did he eat too much butter?
Romans 8:19-22
19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Left alone they would be nephalim (tyrants and bullies) like those offspring through unequally yoked sons of God (Covenant) with the daughters of men (non-Covenant) in Genesis 6.
When man is without restriction (power corrupts absolutely) he does great extensive damage. Ever been the victim of a crime? Was the person operating within the law or outside it?

Criminals operate under the influence of satan.
Our sin nature, if not born again, is controlled by satan.
Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Evil spirits .

11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

You're going in circles.
What are demons?
Ans: Evil spirits.
What are evil spirits?
Ans:
Where do they come from? Did God create them?
Ans:

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ok. So you're reformed.
Even Sproul used Isaiah 45:6-7.

I don't know why there's evil in the world.
But the solution is certainly not that God created evil or uses evil to His own good pleasure/purpose.
If God created evil, I do not wish to serve that God.

Now I'll go back and reply to your post no. 86.

If you don't know where evil spirits/demons come from then you have no position ("[you] don't know.)
You shouldn't be guessing which is what you are doing.
And no, I am NOT Reformed.

 

[jeremiah1five]

We know where we both stand on God being behind evil.
If God is all-good, 1 John 4:8, He cannot be creating evil.
If He is, we have a big discrepancy caused in scripture.
God is either good, or He is not. He can't be both.
If He created evil...He is NOT good.

I do agree that satan could be in only one place at one time.
I know he cannot know our thoughts but only our spoken words.
I also know that all the angels that fell (1/3 of them) are demons living in the demon world with satan.

God allows evil....it's different than creating evil.
Why He allows it, I would think none of us knows, except the reformed, they have the mystery solved by
using the Sovereignty of God to mean that He causes everything. Including evil.



Sounds great.
But when Adam ate of the forbidden fruit he lost his rapport with God, other humans and nature.
The evil man does to himself might explain some types of evil,
but how do you explain evil in nature?
How do you explain the evil animals suffer?
Is a hurricane a good or an evil?
If an animal gets cancer, did he eat too much butter?
Romans 8:19-22
19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Criminals operate under the influence of satan.
Our sin nature, if not born again, is controlled by satan.
Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

You said you don't know where evil spirits come from so the conclusion is you don't know and are guessing.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you don't know where evil spirits/demons come from then you have no position ("[you] don't know.)
You shouldn't be guessing which is what you are doing.
And no, I am NOT Reformed.

You should read posts carefully.
I didn't say I don't know where demons come from.
I said I DON'T KNOW WHY THERE'S EVIL IN THE WORLD.

And then I proceeded to tell you where demons come from
AND about the evil in the world...which you feel comes from man sinning.
Some does, but not all.

And, Jeremiah, we all have a position, whether you agree with it or not is another matter.

 

[GodsGrace]

You said you don't know where evil spirits come from so the conclusion is you don't know and are guessing.

I guess what I wrote to you is too much to take in?
Can't reply to it?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Evil spirits .

11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Seems clear to me. They were not casting out ideas or thoughts.

 

[hawkman]

What are evil spirits?
Ans:

Legion

Where do they come from?

The demonic realm .

Did God create them?
Ans:

God created them or allowed them I see no other choices .

 

[jeremiah1five]

You should read posts carefully.
I didn't say I don't know where demons come from.
I said I DON'T KNOW WHY THERE'S EVIL IN THE WORLD.

And then I proceeded to tell you where demons come from
AND about the evil in the world...which you feel comes from man sinning.
Some does, but not all.

And, Jeremiah, we all have a position, whether you agree with it or not is another matter.

If you don't know why there's evil in the world or where demons or evil spirits come from THEN you don't know and you're merely guessing.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Legion

That was the name of the demented man:

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. Mk 5:9.

The demonic realm .

What is the demonic realm?
How did it originate?

God created them or allowed them I see no other choices .

Now, you're getting closer to the truth.
Then, according to your answer above "the demonic realm" God created the demonic realm for these demons. Which takes us to my original question. What is a demon (and it is not "Legion.") That was the name of the man. Christ was speaking to the man.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Seems clear to me. They were not casting out ideas or thoughts.

Ideas or thoughts were not cast out if you read the text.
The man leap on them.
The MAN.

13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. Acts 19:13–16.

The man had a murderous attitude and leap on the seven sons of Sceva.

 

[jeremiah1five]

We know where we both stand on God being behind evil.
If God is all-good, 1 John 4:8, He cannot be creating evil.
If He is, we have a big discrepancy caused in scripture.
God is either good, or He is not. He can't be both.
If He created evil...He is NOT good.

Scripture is plain. You just don't receive the Word of God that God created evil and darkness and a sinful man.

I do agree that satan could be in only one place at one time.
I know he cannot know our thoughts but only our spoken words.
I also know that all the angels that fell (1/3 of them) are demons living in the demon world with satan.

The angels that fell including Lucifer (of whom the word Satan as adjective is attached to him and anyone who is "adversary" of God) are STILL obedient servants of God. They (the fallen angels) are not in the world possessing people - saved or unsaved. Where do you think the saying "the devil made me do it" comes from? It's an attempt to clear themselves of any sin or wrong-doing and justify their innocence. Well, think about that for a minute. If the "devil makes us do our sin" then upon what right does God have in condemning a person as guilty of sin if it was someone else who CONTROLLED the person to sin?
God could not judge anyone if the devil actually makes us do sin.

God allows evil....it's different than creating evil.
Why He allows it, I would think none of us knows, except the reformed, they have the mystery solved by
using the Sovereignty of God to mean that He causes everything. Including evil.

Evil and sin comes from creation. God created evil. You reject the Word of God for your own purpose. Still guessing.

Criminals operate under the influence of satan.
Our sin nature, if not born again, is controlled by satan.
Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Do Christians sin? Yes, they do.
Even born again believers sin. Taking your statement as above then this means according to you Christians are controlled by Satan.
But you see, in one single second when millions and millions of people on earth sin, where does the sin come from? Satan? He's in all those places in one second of millions and maybe billions of people sinning in one single second?
You see, God said that man's thoughts were evil CONTINUALLY, and this includes born again Christians. And Satan cannot be in all those places with men and women and children making them sin because he is controlling them all in that one single second.
You are still guessing. You don't know.

 

[Scripture Says]

The man had a murderous attitude and leap on the seven sons of Sceva.
And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them,

Scripture Says: Oh My.... the reason he was able to OVERPOWER multiple men was because a DEMON was in him... youll beat it till its dead carry on..

 

[Scripture Says]

Weve all seen the old time KungFu movies where the guy fights 7 guys at once, well one guy runs in and gets kungfu'ed, and one by one @ one at a time he defeats 7 men...ok

 

[hawkman]

That was the name of the demented man:

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. Mk 5:9.

What is a demon (and it is not "Legion.") That was the name of the man. Christ was speaking to the man.

No matter how you twist the English language in these verses I will share you can not make Legion the name of the man in question . Legion was the name of the devils that got cast out by Jesus .

Mark 5​

1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.

2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.

6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.

12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.

15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.

17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.

18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.

What is the demonic realm?

High places . We are told in this verse .
Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

How did it originate?

Like anything .
Colossians 1:16 - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him

 

[jeremiah1five]

No matter how you twist the English language in these verses I will share you can not make Legion the name of the man in question . Legion was the name of the devils that got cast out by Jesus .

Jesus asked the MAN "What is your name?"

High places . We are told in this verse .
Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

You said demons were from the 'demonic realm.'
Paul is talking about principalities, powers, and against the rulers OF THIS WORLD, not the demonic realm.

Like anything .
Colossians 1:16 - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him

So, explain how Colossians 1:16 applies?
You are implying that God created the 'demonic realm.' That would mean He created the demons to live/exist there, according to your understanding.
Scripture shows God creating the hosts of heaven (angels) in Genesis but where does it show where God created 'demons?'
I think you're mixing up angels and evil spirits/demons.
By the way, the Greek word for "spirit" is "pneuma."
Where it says evil "spirits" in Scripture the word "pneuma" is nowhere to be seen.

 

[hawkman]

jeremiah1five , If I can not show and make you understand the prima facie of what is written in Mark 5 about the name LEGION being without a doubt the name of the demons I know for a fact I can not make you understand the deeper things of God that you ask about .

jeremiah1five you are the first Christian I have ever heard deny demons exist and call them "attitudes" .

I can not help you jeremiah1five , all I can do is pray . Over and out .

 

[jeremiah1five]

jeremiah1five , If I can not show and make you understand the prima facie of what is written in Mark 5 about the name LEGION being without a doubt the name of the demons I know for a fact I can not make you understand the deeper things of God that you ask about .

jeremiah1five you are the first Christian I have ever heard deny demons exist and call them "attitudes" .

I can not help you jeremiah1five , all I can do is pray . Over and out .

Over and out.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

jeremiah1five , If I can not show and make you understand the prima facie of what is written in Mark 5 about the name LEGION being without a doubt the name of the demons I know for a fact I can not make you understand the deeper things of God that you ask about .

jeremiah1five you are the first Christian I have ever heard deny demons exist and call them "attitudes" .

I can not help you jeremiah1five , all I can do is pray . Over and out .

Hawkman, there is a motivator as to why Jeremiah1five wants to believe that demons are not real life forms in and of themselves. That motivation is divorced from scripture and from reason. I have now read enough of this posts to discern in the words what is behind this. We have laid out a good case for anyone else considering this position defending the faith. I am moving on as well. Nice joining ranks with you again!