IS FREE WILL AN ATTRIBUTE GOD GIFTED TO MAN?

[GodsGrace]

I understand your concerns.

Before I believed the Reformed teaching, I knew about election, predestination and the like. I have heard many people mention about God making men robots but never thought anything of it.

Now that I fully embrace the Sovereignty of God and the doctrines of grace, I do not see myself at all like a robot.

As I have stated earlier, anything I do good comes from God, all the wrong I do is from self.

I understand this does not make sense to you and does not answer your question. The whole purpose of the existence of Gods people, is to bring Him glory.

God decreeing all things that come to pass, even the lint that falls of my pants, is mind boggling to me. Just like the Trinity and Jesus being fully human and fully God.

The Bible teaches all this, I cannot deny it.

I'm going to stop discussing this because it gets to a point where I feel like I'm fighting with a person's faith and I dislike how this feels.

I just want to say that God can only receive the glory that He can appreciate if we ourselves do the good of our own free will. Not because God so determined that we do it.

Next time around!

 

[GodsGrace]

Free will is a concept in philosophy and science that refers to the ability of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or state of the universe12. Free will is often associated with moral, philosophical and psychological responsibility for one's actions23. Free will implies that people can do different things and have different outcomes in their lives34. Some use the term “free will” loosely to reflect the role of conscious decisions in shaping one's life.

from my computer

Wow.
How many times do I have to repeat that we're not discussing philosophical free will ?

Do you have the free will to fly?
Hmmm. I don't think so.

So who cares what philosophy thinks of free will ??

 

[GodsGrace]

This statement is false.

Things that we do not understand will always rub us the wrong way.

Truth is very hurtful to human pride.

Thanks for posting the videos of Macarthur, he is spot on.

I know what the man teaches. I have been reading his books and listening to his sermons daily for years amongst the other greats.

So have I.

But we come to different conclusions.
Just in the above 3 videos he contradicts himself....

But no matter.
We'll move on - unless you want to discuss something specific.

 

[electedbyHim]

I'm going to stop discussing this because it gets to a point where I feel like I'm fighting with a person's faith and I dislike how this feels.

I just want to say that God can only receive the glory that He can appreciate if we ourselves do the good of our own free will. Not because God so determined that we do it.

Next time around!

I just want to say that God can only receive the glory that He can appreciate if we ourselves do the good of our own free will. Not because God so determined that we do it.

I understand you have good intentions with the above statement. However what you are saying is not Biblical.

God in no way needs us to do anything to receive glory. With or without us, He will get His glory.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[electedbyHim]

So have I.

But we come to different conclusions.
Just in the above 3 videos he contradicts himself....

But no matter.
We'll move on - unless you want to discuss something specific.

I have never seen contradictions.

Nevertheless, we are all sinners and prone to mistakes.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I just want to say that God can only receive the glory

God can "receive" nothing for to receive is to "add to" and to "add to" God is the change God which is impossible.

Job 35:7 “If you are righteous, what do you give God, Or what does He receive from your hand?
8 “Your wickedness affects only a man such as you, And your righteousness affects only a son of man [but it cannot affect God, who is sovereign].​

​

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD; that is My name! I will not yield My glory to another

 

[Iconoclast]

Wow.
How many times do I have to repeat that we're not discussing philosophical free will ?

Do you have the free will to fly?
Hmmm. I don't think so.

So who cares what philosophy thinks of free will ??

The origen of free will is philosophy

 

[Hopeful 2]

I have never seen contradictions.

Nevertheless, we are all sinners and prone to mistakes.

Grace and peace to you.

If you choose to repent of sin, you won't be a sinner anymore.

 

[GodsGrace]

electedbyhim

YOUR POST HAS BEEN DELETED.
YOU'VE BROKEN TOS 1.1, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5

PLEASE FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH THE TOS.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST IN THIS THREAD.
USE TALK WITH STAFF IF NECESSARY.

DO NOT REPLY TO A MODERATOR IN AN OPEN THREAD.
THIS IS GROUNDS FOR AN IMMEDIATE THREAD BAN.

 

[GodsGrace]

The origen of free will is philosophy

The origin of Free Will is the Garden of Eden.

 

[Iconoclast]

The origin of Free Will is the Garden of Eden.

No mention of it.

 

[Iconoclast]

The origin of Free Will is the Garden of Eden.

The origin of sin and death was in the garden....They were not "free" to sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

The origin of sin and death was in the garden....They were not "free" to sin.

1. Then Why did God issue a command He knew they could not keep ?

2. Then it was God that made them sin?
Then why did He warn Caine that sin was crouching at the door?

 

[Iconoclast]

1. Then Why did God issue a command He knew they could not keep ?

Here once again we have a post from those who are in the blame God for man's sin crowd. God is a covenant making, Covenant keeping God. God as creator tells man what life is about. God establishes His law. We are never "free" to break God's law. It was satan who questioned God and His law/word....hath God said?
The command s were very clear.

2. Then it was God that made them sin?

Reformed believers do not have a God who makes anyone sin. Reformed believers worship the Holy God revealed in scripture, not a fabricated god from carnal philosophy, so this observation is unbiblical.

Then why did He warn Caine that sin was crouching at the door?

Where did Cain get his wife? lol. fallen men are faced with sin everywhere they turn, because they are in Adam's image now.

 

[Iconoclast]

I have never seen contradictions.

Nevertheless, we are all sinners and prone to mistakes.

Grace and peace to you.

I saw one or more of your posts was censored. I do not like when people hide behind so called rules, when it benefits them. You must have posted truth once again.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here once again we have a post from those who are in the blame God for man's sin crowd. God is a covenant making, Covenant keeping God. God as creator tells man what life is about. God establishes His law. We are never "free" to break God's law. It was satan who questioned God and His law/word....hath God said?
The command s were very clear.

Reformed believers do not have a God who makes anyone sin. Reformed believers worship the Holy God revealed in scripture, not a fabricated god from carnal philosophy, so this observation is unbiblical.

Where did Cain get his wife? lol. fallen men are faced with sin everywhere they turn, because they are in Adam's image now.

Nice comments, but you NEVER reply to my posts.
You just post what you believe.

How about replying to my questions?

I'm not speaking about blaming God.
And, BTW, IF God decreed everything, of course He's to blame.
If God made you want to choose to sin, then why would He NOT be to blame?

Genesis 2:16-17
16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

God gave Adam a command.
Adam could eat freely from any tree.
BUT Adam could not eat from the tree of good and evil.
God COMMANDED Adam NOT to eat from that tree.

Now...
Either God is a very weak God and could not keep Adam from doing what God had decreed him to do...
OR
Adam had free will and ate of the fruit of his own free will.

Which do YOU believe it is?

 

[Iconoclast]

Nice comments, but you NEVER reply to my posts.
You just post what you believe.

How about replying to my questions?

I'm not speaking about blaming God.
And, BTW, IF God decreed everything, of course He's to blame.
If God made you want to choose to sin, then why would He NOT be to blame?

Genesis 2:16-17
16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

God gave Adam a command.
Adam could eat freely from any tree.
BUT Adam could not

Adam could eat of it, under penalty of death. He was warned not to eat of it, He did not obey, He died.

eat from the tree of good and evil.
God COMMANDED Adam NOT to eat from that tree.

God warned Him.

Now...
Either God is a very weak God

The biblical God is all powerful. You should not refer to Him in this way.

and could not keep Adam from doing what God had decreed him to do...

God was not obligated to Keep Adam from disobeying. This happened in real time. You still do not understand the word decree. You are using it as if God caused it to take place. God never causes sin. Reformed believers would never suggest such a thing.

OR
Adam had free will and ate of the fruit of his own free will.

Free will does not exist.

Which do YOU believe it is?

 

[GodsGrace]

Adam could eat of it, under penalty of death. He was warned not to eat of it, He did not obey, He died.

God warned Him.

The biblical God is all powerful. You should not refer to Him in this way.



God was not obligated to Keep Adam from disobeying. This happened in real time. You still do not understand the word decree. You are using it as if God caused it to take place. God never causes sin. Reformed believers would never suggest such a thing.


Free will does not exist.

Since free will does not exist...

It means God decreed, predestinated absolutely everything man does.
SINCE HE HAS NO FREE WILL.

This means, by necessity, that GOD CAUSED ADAM TO EAT OF THE FRUIT BY DECREE, PREDESTINATING THIS TO HAPPEN.

Your above comments are conflicting.

Either we have free will
OR
God is decreeing everything that happens.

Which, BTW, is what the reformed believe.
I think you may be inventing your own religion, maybe.
Since you do not agree with either the bible OR Calvin (and others in that camp).

 

[Iconoclast]

Since free will does not exist...

It means God decreed, predestinated absolutely everything man does.

No it does not mean that at all. The Christian world is not limited by your flawed narrow understanding. Man has "self will" that is bound by His nature. Man is responsible for his own choices and sin.

SINCE HE HAS NO FREE WILL.

No he does not have free will , which does not exist. The bible says men are self willed....it is not free.
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

This means, by necessity, that GOD CAUSED ADAM TO EAT OF THE FRUIT BY DECREE, PREDESTINATING THIS TO HAPPEN.

No it does not. This has been explained to you several times. You keep repeating this like a stunad.

Your above comments are conflicting.

Either we have free will
OR
God is decreeing everything that happens.

No...you just refuse to look.

Which, BTW, is what the reformed believe.

let the reformed say what they believe as you do not know.

I think you may be inventing your own religion, maybe.
Since you do not agree with either the bible OR Calvin (and others in that camp).

That is a false accusation, but you are welcome to post it if it makes you feel better

 

[Fastfredy0]

It means God decreed, predestinated absolutely everything man does.
SINCE HE HAS NO FREE WILL.

You can't even define Free Will save in an obtuse manner and yet it is at the heart of your understanding of God.