Is God Love conditional or unconditional?

[ozell]

There is no love outside of God either conditionally or unconditionally.

God is love. That is His condition.

I concur and add... unconditional. We mere humans can barely grasp the concept of agape, yet we restrain and box the Creator of All with our limited understanding. How sad! The Bible tells of HIS agape love and yes, it also reveals HE is just, but the greatest of His attributes is love!

One day the whole world will finally get it, but for some, it may be too late.

if the whole world don't get it then the Love of God is conditional because one day it may be to late.

 

[ozell]

I agree Vic. Our misunderstandings about whether or not God's love is conditional or unconditional stems from the fact that to thoroughly understand God's love is to claim to understand God Himself, for God is love. And, we mere, sinful mortals cannot fathom such things.

We can (and do) seek to fathom it though. In my own searchings on this issue, I've come down on the side of God's love being unconditional. While I do acknowledge that the texts shared thus far seem to indicate that God's love for us is conditional upon our obedience to Him, we need to remember just exactly what it is that enables us to even attempt such obedience. For this, we need to remember Romans 5:8:

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

That's the bottom line there. While we were yet sinners, wholly incapable of pleasing God or obeying Him in anyway, Christ died for us, opening to us that door to salvation, to obedience and to everlasting life. He loved us first, not because of anything we did or deserved, thus making it by definition unconditional, but because it is His very nature to love.

because we are sinners Jesus died for us, He died for our past sins as Paul states below

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

after we come into the knowledge of the truth what about those sins we commit afterwards?

Paul states

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

what happens?

27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[ozell]

Jesus died for us and out past sins

but we are still sinning

how long will God's love last if a person continue to sin?

Jesus has a cut off point!

 

[Vic C.]

Jesus died for us and out past sins

but we are still sinning

how long will God's love last if a person continue to sin?

Jesus has a cut off point!

Yes, there are believers who still get wrangled up in sin. For an understanding of how God deals with them, a study of 1 John 5:16 and it's related context may explain it.

I still believe God's love is unconditional, for Paul tells us that while we were still sinners, Jesus died for us! What a just and loving LORD we serve. :amen

 

[Mysteryman]

Jesus died for us and out past sins

but we are still sinning

how long will God's love last if a person continue to sin?

Jesus has a cut off point!

Yes, there are believers who still get wrangled up in sin. For an understanding of how God deals with them, a study of 1 John 5:16 and it's related context may explain it.

I still believe God's love is unconditional, for Paul tells us that while we were still sinners, Jesus died for us! What a just and loving LORD we serve. :amen

Hi Vic

I believe that God's love is conditional. Yes, even when we were yet sinners, God sent his Son to be a propitiantion for our sins. But there is still the race that needs to be run. Our inheritance is based upon how we run the race.

If God's love was unconditional, it would mean, in essence, that sin of mankind was never held against anyone for any reason because of the love of God. However, there are going to be some who will commit the unforgivable sin(s) and they will pay the price. Which means that God's love will not cover these sins. Which also means, that his love is conditional . We as christians can loose rewards, as well as gain certain crowns. Our stewardship with reflect upon our stance in eternity.

 

[Vic C.]

MM,

You already know we have different beliefs and will always be an impasse. You should know by now I honestly believe the unforgivable cannot be committed by Believers. That is the beautiful mystery of being on this side of the Cross (and chasm). What more price needs to be paid? We are incapabe of paying the price in the first place, hence the need for a Savior.

I'm certain we have opposing beliefs about a "sin unto death" also.

I also believe it is not me persevering to the end, but the Lord persevering in me! I truly want to give credit where credit is due. :amen

I honestly believe God's love is unconditional because we all had nothing we could possibly contribute to HIS Kingdom without being enlightened and justified by our Lord ans Savior.

Which means that God's love will not cover these sin

That's preposterous and doesn't really align with the whole of scripture.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

MM, we are the same coin; one side of the coin cannot go anywhere without the other side of the coin. However, one side of the coin sees a view that is 180 degrees apart from the other side.

We may just have to agree to disagree; I see my God as all powerful, whether it be through a continued process of sanctification or by simply saying,

"That's enough! You have believed but are contributing nothing to further the Kingdom. You are missing out on the many blessings in store for you. Therefore, I am taking you home, for your own good and for the good of others. You have sinned unto your very own physical death."

 

[Mysteryman]

MM,

You already know we have different beliefs and will always be an impasse. You should know by now I honestly believe the unforgivable cannot be committed by Believers. That is the beautiful mystery of being on this side of the Cross (and chasm). What more price needs to be paid? We are incapabe of paying the price in the first place, hence the need for a Savior.

I'm certain we have opposing beliefs about a "sin unto death" also.

I also believe it is not me persevering to the end, but the Lord persevering in me! I truly want to give credit where credit is due. :amen

I honestly believe God's love is unconditional because we all had nothing we could possibly contribute to HIS Kingdom without being enlightened and justified by our Lord ans Savior.

Which means that God's love will not cover these sin

That's preposterous and doesn't really align with the whole of scripture.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

MM, we are the same coin; one side of the coin cannot go anywhere without the other side of the coin. However, one side of the coin sees a view that is 180 degrees apart from the other side.

We may just have to agree to disagree; I see my God as all powerful, whether it be through a continued process of sanctification or by simply saying,

"That's enough! You have believed but are contributing nothing to further the Kingdom. You are missing out on the many blessings in store for you. Therefore, I am taking you home, for your own good and for the good of others. You have sinned unto your very own physical death."

Hi Vic:

I wasn't talking about believers. I was just talking about the love of God and whether or not it is conditional or unconditional.

God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son. God didn't just love believers. Thus , his love is conditional to all, for many different purposes. Believers are those who are his sheep. Christians are chosen from before the foundations of the world to be holy and without blame in Christ in love. None of us would have been called nor chosen if God foreknew that we would sin a sin unto death.

And because God did foreknow us, and he knew we would not sin a sin unto death, he called or chose us to be one of the fold (sheep). His love is still conditional to His set of standards. One standard that is mentioned and contingent upon mankind, is that no one sin a sin unto death.

A murderer hath no eternal life abiding in them. So God's love is conditional .

If God's love was not conditional, then there would absolutely be no need for a place called the "second death".

Bless

 

[Vic C.]

MM,

We were all unbelievers. God chose us; we didn't choose Him. I have only my personal experience in which I can relate. I don't ever remember a time in my life when I said, I'm going to go out and find God now. So, if the desire to draw closer to Him didn't come from me, then where did it come from?

I used to hold to the same understanding of foreknowledge as you, but my old belief of pre-ordination keeps creeping up on me. I used to fight it; just ask mondar, Lovely and some others here. I refuse to fight it anymore, because I feel I'm only wrestling with God.

I'm not the least bit afraid to admit I do not have the "free will" I though I once possessed. Free will is not really free. It is contingent upon the choices available to mankind. Now ask yourself; who is in control of the choices you have? Are you free to dive deep in the ocean without protection and expect to live? Can you exist in space without same protection? Why not? Can't you will yourself to do so?

It may seem like I'm going off on a tangent, but grasping who is really in charge and how sovereignty operates goes far in understanding the unconditional love of God.

A murderer hath no eternal life abiding in them. So God's love is conditional .

That's not entirely true. Are you saying this because you truly believe it or are you trying to convince yourself? Please consider the context of John's epistle and his target audience. Consider why he was telling them this. I don't believe the text is saying what you believe it to be saying. One must also consider the circumstances of the murder before one condemns them for all eternity.

Would you like me to find you some murderers in the Bible that were still found to be in God's good graces? There are several... many, if I knew where they all were.

Yes, that would be the unconditional love of the Lord. May I ask you what is your definition of agape?

If God's love was not conditional, then there would absolutely be no need for a place called the "second death".

This is all a matter of perspective and interpretation and your belief of what is the second death.

Peace,
Vic

 

[Mysteryman]

MM,

We were all unbelievers. God chose us; we didn't choose Him. I have only my personal experience in which I can relate. I don't ever remember a time in my life when I said, I'm going to go out and find God now. So, if the desire to draw closer to Him didn't come from me, then where did it come from?

I used to hold to the same understanding of foreknowledge as you, but my old belief of pre-ordination keeps creeping up on me. I used to fight it; just ask mondar, Lovely and some others here. I refuse to fight it anymore, because I feel I'm only wrestling with God.

I'm not the least bit afraid to admit I do not have the "free will" I though I once possessed. Free will is not really free. It is contingent upon the choices available to mankind. Now ask yourself; who is in control of the choices you have? Are you free to dive deep in the ocean without protection and expect to live? Can you exist in space without same protection? Why not? Can't you will yourself to do so?

It may seem like I'm going off on a tangent, but grasping who is really in charge and how sovereignty operates goes far in understanding the unconditional love of God.

A murderer hath no eternal life abiding in them. So God's love is conditional .

That's not entirely true. Are you saying this because you truly believe it or are you trying to convince yourself? Please consider the context of John's epistle and his target audience. Consider why he was telling them this. I don't believe the text is saying what you believe it to be saying. One must also consider the circumstances of the murder before one condemns them for all eternity.

Would you like me to find you some murderers in the Bible that were still found to be in God's good graces? There are several... many, if I knew where they all were.

Yes, that would be the unconditional love of the Lord. May I ask you what is your definition of agape?

[quote:15ynnesu]If God's love was not conditional, then there would absolutely be no need for a place called the "second death".

This is all a matter of perspective and interpretation and your belief of what is the second death.

Peace,
Vic[/quote:15ynnesu]


Hi Vic

I can get into another thread on Murder if you so desire. I did this about two months or so ago.

"agape" is definded in I Corinth. 13:4 - 7

I hold to the belief that nothing within scripture contradict itself in any way , form or manner. It boils down to how one reads the scriptures. We always need to check and double check our understanding with other parts of scripture. Never allowing our own private interpretations or influences to guide us in the wrong direction.

Sound simple ?

 

[ozell]

Yes, there are believers who still get wrangled up in sin. For an understanding of how God deals with them, a study of 1 John 5:16 and it's related context may explain it.

there is a sin unto death? will God forgive that sin?

I still believe God's love is unconditional, for Paul tells us that while we were still sinners, Jesus died for us! What a just and loving LORD we serve. :amen

and we still sin, so how many times must Jesus die for our sin?

 

[ozell]

Jesus said(God said)

Mk 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

is this unconditional love from Jesus?