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Bible Study Is Hell Eternal, Anhialation or temporary??

God created hell right? So why a torture chamber and why make it last trillions of years if God is all powerful. Why would a God that can predict the future allow those who he knew would reject him suffer? That's not all love that's a power trip.
Boyce,
When human beings try to figure out God's ways, it generally leads to more questions than answers. The real issue is that God does not desire to see anyone suffer in Hell. That's why He gave us Christ and His Gospel. That should be our primary focus.

God could have made humans and angels totally robotic. Which means they would always make the right choices under His control, and there would be no need for Hell. He chose not to do so, and since God is God, we accept His ways, because ultimately they are always righteous.
 
People can approach the Gospel in two ways. The first is from God's perspective, the second is from man's perspective. Man's perspective leads to humanism and a false concept of God. God's perspective leads to an overall plan and purpose to everything that has and will occur in this universe. It is only in eternity future that God's children will see things truly from God's perspective and praise Him for His decisions. Without the reality of Hell, there is no need for the Gospel, which is Good News only because there is also Bad News.
 
God created hell right? So why a torture chamber and why make it last trillions of years if God is all powerful. Why would a God that can predict the future allow those who he knew would reject him suffer? That's not all love that's a power trip.

We are God's creation. There will be those of us who will be part of his family. Jesus says there are those that have their "father" the devil. As I stated earlier, if the devil and this family mingled with God and his family.....it would be called earth.

Hell was made for the devil and his family. It just means the opposite of God has to be separated from God for eternity.
 
People can approach the Gospel in two ways. The first is from God's perspective, the second is from man's perspective. Man's perspective leads to humanism and a false concept of God. God's perspective leads to an overall plan and purpose to everything that has and will occur in this universe. It is only in eternity future that God's children will see things truly from God's perspective and praise Him for His decisions. Without the reality of Hell, there is no need for the Gospel, which is Good News only because there is also Bad News.
It's always interesting to me how people label their own perspective as "God's perspective," while others who disagree with them take "man's perspective."
 
Boyce,
When human beings try to figure out God's ways, it generally leads to more questions than answers. The real issue is that God does not desire to see anyone suffer in Hell. That's why He gave us Christ and His Gospel. That should be our primary focus.

God could have made humans and angels totally robotic. Which means they would always make the right choices under His control, and there would be no need for Hell. He chose not to do so, and since God is God, we accept His ways, because ultimately they are always righteous.
That last bit sounds awful humanistic, that God would value human agency?
 
It saddens me how much this doctrine has affected and in many cases alienated believers, because they actually employed their minds to thinking about it. Atheists sometimes lob attacks against Christianity via the doctrine of hell, and it's not like they don't have any foundation. This notion betrays all we know about the loving representation of God seen through Jesus our Lord. That a gracious God would perpetually torment and torture human beings created in His own image, beings whom he loved so much that he gave his only Son for. That a Just God would use torment and torture as a means of punishment, as if he had such an insatiable wrath that he could never satisfy his lust for violence that he had to punish beings born with a sinful nature perpetually for eternity. These are troubling thoughts, and while it does serve us well to put our focus on the cross, we can't just brush this issue aside as the thought of this reality is too grave to bear for those loved ones who do not know the Lord.

I personally disagree with this doctrine, and have been so outspoken on this forum on this matter because of negative impact the Eternal Conscious Torment doctrine has had on the Church, not only to outsiders, but also alienating those within. It is emotionally untenable, and Scripturally unsound and in my opinion an afront to the goodness of God.
 
It is emotionally untenable, and Scripturally unsound and in my opinion an afront to the goodness of God.

Hi Doulos. I haven't spoken to you directly, but I know where you are coming from on this. I might have thought this for a minute in my life, but I see how GOOD God is and how much the Devil lies. Just because God separated himself from evil, doesn't mean he is evil.......it means that he wants nothing to do with it. God gives us so many chances when we are evil to see the LIGHT that he is.

John 3:18-21 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

And speaking about eternal punishment......everything horrible that has ever happened goes into that darkness. I would/do watch crime shows and I watch the news and understand that justice is part of the GOOD in God.

Just because I believe in a literal eternal torment, doesn't mean that is how I realized who God is. He gave me revelation of his GOOD and I knew he had been with me my whole life. There are some people though, who need to know about this Hell, because maybe they would think twice about what they are going to do with their actions. (Anyone who causes harm to others, or Hate around the world.)
 
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I agree. God is not in the torture business, but in the love buisness. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life threw our Lord Jesus Christ." God knew us humans would fall, and I don't think 1,000 trillion ×1,000 trillion years of hell for around 60 years of sin is fair (hang on let's times that by another 900,000 trillion years of burning, maybe do that another thousand times... ) I don't think we are forced into this life then forced to choose eternal life or eternal hell. That sounds a but absurd.
Gal 5:9
9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

God will not allow levin in his kingdom.
He gave each person born, a way out of hell.
He does not send people to hell.
People get to make their choice Heaven or Hell.
 
Hi Doulos. I haven't spoken to you directly, but I know where you are coming from on this. I might have thought this for a minute in my life, but I see how GOOD God is and how much the Devil lies. Just because God separated himself from evil, doesn't mean he is evil.......it means that he wants nothing to do with it. God gives us so many chances when we are evil to see the LIGHT that he is.
To me, the Goodness of God is a proper description of the totality of his actions and attributes, not just an assertion. Which is why I have a problem from this aspect of the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment.

And speaking about eternal punishment......everything horrible that has ever happened goes into that darkness. I would/do watch crime shows and I watch the news and understand that justice is part of the GOOD in God.
Justice is good I agree, but punishment should be fitting of the crimes committed and it should be done in proportion to the wrong committed. Giving everyone the same amount of time of punishment (infinite) is beyond reasonable. He also doesn't destroy evil, but chooses to simply contain in a particular part of his creation that would then multiply the evil so that there is more evil and suffering then there ever was on earth.

Just because I believe in a literal eternal torment, doesn't mean that is how I realized who God is.
This seems to me to be the norm, that most Christians don't think about their beliefs in Eternal Conscious Torment, especially when it comes to how they view God. The way God punishes the wicked in the end does however reflect on his overall character.

He gave me revelation of is GOOD and I knew he had been with me my whole life. There are some people though, who need to know about this Hell, because maybe they would think twice about what they are going to do with their actions. (Anyone who causes harm to others, or Hate around the world.)
Even if they didn't do those bad actions they would still go to hell, since they didn't believe in Jesus. The Doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment is great for getting people to morally reform themselves out of fear, rather than being transformed by the love of God being poured into our hearts. Many people are completely turned away by the message of, "love me or I'll torment you forever."
 
It saddens me how much this doctrine has affected and in many cases alienated believers, because they actually employed their minds to thinking about it. Atheists sometimes lob attacks against Christianity via the doctrine of hell, and it's not like they don't have any foundation. This notion betrays all we know about the loving representation of God seen through Jesus our Lord. That a gracious God would perpetually torment and torture human beings created in His own image, beings whom he loved so much that he gave his only Son for. That a Just God would use torment and torture as a means of punishment, as if he had such an insatiable wrath that he could never satisfy his lust for violence that he had to punish beings born with a sinful nature perpetually for eternity. These are troubling thoughts, and while it does serve us well to put our focus on the cross, we can't just brush this issue aside as the thought of this reality is too grave to bear for those loved ones who do not know the Lord.

I personally disagree with this doctrine, and have been so outspoken on this forum on this matter because of negative impact the Eternal Conscious Torment doctrine has had on the Church, not only to outsiders, but also alienating those within. It is emotionally untenable, and Scripturally unsound and in my opinion an afront to the goodness of God.

If any believer studies the very long and very manipulated doctrines, few of same in agreement, by power mongering religious authorities they'd have to throw away most of what they have been fed. Just trying to get 2 believers to agree across the board always proves impossible.

And there are spiritual reasons for that that remain unrecognized by the majority. That's how well the space in general is manipulated in this present age.

It's not an issue of the people, but what the problems of the people really are that is detailed in the scriptures. And yes, it's a real phenomena that is exemplified by this particular position. Most christians make God in Christ out to be the ultimate double dealing hypocrite. Heaping mounds of forgiveness upon themselves for their sins whilst simultaneously condemning everyone who doesn't believe like them. That mindset is a direct result of the demonic influences people carry in their hearts.

Beyond that however it is also part of the overall direction God Desires, to openly reveal such things.

If I didn't believe all things work for a Perfect end result that resides in The Hands of God Alone I'd have cast aside christianity long ago. The people involved, when push comes to shove, are a hateful condemning self serving paranoid lot. They couldn't love each others or their neighbors if their life depended on it. They'll feign love out of one side of their mouths and condemn you in the next breath.

This particular doctrine delivers the ultimate in hateful manipulation into every handler of the Word. And yes, they themselves get burned right here, right now, in the process. There is no lower form of hatred toward another person available than to condemn them to burn alive forever if they don't believe 'exactly like you.'

The dark powers of the heart DO fully deserve to land in the Lake of Fire. And on that basis I too believe in eternal torment.

The Tempter will land in the Lake, period. That operator does affect all of us.
So the doctrine needs to be applied personally, first. And few are able to 'go there.' Because they would actually have to tell the truth to themselves. It can't be done. The resistance factor is off the charts. Their tongues and hearts are purposefully tied up.

God in Christ will apply the cure for everyone who has called upon Him. It may not be in this present life, but they will go free of the Tempter and all of his influences that currently reign.

When Paul tells us that he had evil present with him (Romans 7:17-21), WHO would that be? Paul or the Tempter? Do the math.

When Paul tells us that he had a messenger of Satan in his flesh (2 Cor. 12:7), WHO will be saved and more importantly WHO will not?

When Paul shows us that there is a vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor in the same LUMP that Paul called ME that will be destroyed, why is it so hard to see the obvious?

These are the paths that Paul led me to observe.

Some will turn.

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

We have to recognize that all of us were under that power to begin with. And that the power is a real one, even after salvation. When we don't, we end up as hypocrites. Openly forgiving the entirety of ourselves when that just ain't about to happen, nor is it possible.

So, yeah, it is a rather complex matter isn't it?
 
Gal 5:9
9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

God will not allow levin in his kingdom.
He gave each person born, a way out of hell.
Do you believe in God's omniscience? Does he not know which way each person will go? Does he not foreknow their rejection or acceptance of the truth?

He does not send people to hell.
People get to make their choice Heaven or Hell.
This is perhaps the most referenced argument in regards to hell, and it doesn't fit with Scripture.

"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him! Luke 12:5 (ESV)

God is the one who has authority to cast one into hell, not the individual himself. God sends people to hell to exact his just punishment.
 
It saddens me how much this doctrine has affected and in many cases alienated believers, because they actually employed their minds to thinking about it. Atheists sometimes lob attacks against Christianity via the doctrine of hell, and it's not like they don't have any foundation. This notion betrays all we know about the loving representation of God seen through Jesus our Lord. That a gracious God would perpetually torment and torture human beings created in His own image, beings whom he loved so much that he gave his only Son for. That a Just God would use torment and torture as a means of punishment, as if he had such an insatiable wrath that he could never satisfy his lust for violence that he had to punish beings born with a sinful nature perpetually for eternity. These are troubling thoughts, and while it does serve us well to put our focus on the cross, we can't just brush this issue aside as the thought of this reality is too grave to bear for those loved ones who do not know the Lord.

I personally disagree with this doctrine, and have been so outspoken on this forum on this matter because of negative impact the Eternal Conscious Torment doctrine has had on the Church, not only to outsiders, but also alienating those within. It is emotionally untenable, and Scripturally unsound and in my opinion an afront to the goodness of God.


The second death involves the spirit man and spiritual matter.

The first death involves flesh and blood and natural matter.

The death that is referenced in the above scripture you mentioned is the second death, since all die a natural death whether they are righteous or not. [Exception is the Rapture at the end of the age]


Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:41,46


These unrighteous one's that Jesus sentenced to the everlasting fires, receive the same punishment as the devil and his angels.


Which is -

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10


The devil: tormented day and night forever and ever.

The unrighteous: tormented day and night forever and ever.


Same sentence from Jesus.

The second death is being cast into the lake of fire -

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14-15


JLB
 
Might just as well eliminate these words from our bibles, in some of the newer versions it may already be eliminated..

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;

"but the wrath of God abideth on him"

tob
 
Might just as well eliminate these words from our bibles, in some of the newer versions it may already be eliminated..

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;

"but the wrath of God abideth on him"

tob
I agree with this passage, those who do not believe the Son will not see life. They will be dead.
 
What do you do with Gods wrath, eliminate it?

tob
Uphold it.

Gods wrath is a real matter, openly displayed. The bulk of our christian promises in the text revolve around the promise of Gods Wrath to the ungodly, particularly on the Great Day of Wrath and the Final Judgment culminating in the Eternal Lake of Fire.

I might even think we would all agree that the devil and his messengers will have that fate. Though I do know in some camps they promote satanic salvation. I can't agree with that position.
 
What do you do with Gods wrath, eliminate it?

tob
For his anger is but for a moment, and his favor is for a lifetime. Weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes with the morning. Psalm 30:5 (ESV)

It is not eliminated, but it is spent in the destruction of evil and then what remains is God's joy and goodness for all eternity.
 
Boy O boy. Talk about an explosive subject! Lets remember people, NO DEBATE ALLOWED IN THIS THREAD! Again, my simple opinion is "the wages of sin is death." Now in death, there is no activity, a person is dead if they are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus. Then they are resurrected. This is the end of their non-activity, they are judged and condemned to the lake of fire. Next are the biblical words "everlasting" which is a word used for both believers and nonbelievers. You chose what you want to believe. I stick by what the Bible plainly says, EVERLASTING.
 
There is a mistaken assumption that God is the source of the torment in hell. Look how bad man can get in his 70 years here on earth while the holy spirit is restraining evil. Imagine what it would be like if man has thousands of thousands of years to grow in his evil ways. If you've heard the gospel you have a choice.
 
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