Is it fair that only those who heard of and believe in Jesus can be saved?

[for_his_glory]

According to the Joshua Project, there are 2 billion unreached people who never heard the name of Jesus.

In countries like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, where Bibles are forbidden and Christianity is prohibited, the only God that people know is Allah, and the only Jesus they know is Isa (the Muslim name for Jesus), the prophet in the Qur'an who denied being the son of God. They do not know the Jesus who was sent as a final sacrifice for our sins and through whom we can come to the Father. Preaching the Gospel is forbidden. So while it is true that people in these countries have heard of the name of God (called "Allah" in their local languages), they do not know the name of Jesus as He is known in the Gospel.

While it can be argued that these people naturally know right from wrong, I don't think it can be argued that they naturally know that Jesus is the son of God and therefore, they are without excuse for not knowing Him. The Gospel cannot be known aside from preaching.

I beg to differ as the Gospel is being preached in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and many other countries that forbid it, but yet the preaching of the word is carried on by God's faithful servants that do not fear the persecutions that come against them, even if they die a martyr's death. I have witness to many Muslims over the internet that received Jesus, but yet have to hide their faith from their families and friends.

This is why I do not like statistics that places like Joshua Project and others use as they can only assume without facts. Have they traveled to all these countries, no. When it comes to a topic like this you will see all kinds of answers, pros and cons as there is no real answer as who knows the thoughts of God as everything comes before His judgements.

 

[jmt356]

The gospel was preached to the dead.
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

God is the God of the living
Mark 12:26-27 to the Sadducee's who do not believe in a resurrection
Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? 27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”


If anyone has never heard of Jesus I would state they are neither saved nor condemned. That they will come before Jesus and He will make a judgment concerning them. I would add nothing is hidden from Him.

God is loving and just. The powerful signs will be given in Rev 11 before the lie of the beast and great tribulation enters the world. So that if any in those days has even a shred of love or faith in God they will believe and be saved. Those who take joy in the death of Gods two witnesses will fall to the lie of the beast.

Randy:

1 Peter 4:6 does not necessarily support the view that the Gospel was preached to the dead. It could be read to mean that the Gospel was preached to the living who are now dead. In other words, the Gospel was preached to them, then they died, and now they are dead.

Here is how the NIV translates the verse:
1Pe 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

The NKJV translates the verse as:
1Pe 4:6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

However, there are multiple interpretations to 1 Peter 4:6, and some maintain that it is referring to the preaching of the Gospel to those who are already dead. This article discusses the various interpretations. I do not believe the verse is clear either way.

I would say that if indeed 1 Peter 4:6 means that the Gospel is preached to the dead who never heard the Gospel during their lives, then there is fairness to the Bible's message of salvation. It would mean that all people, including those who died never hearing of Jesus, have an equal chance at salvation.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Is it fair that only those who heard of and believe in Jesus can be saved?​

Definition of "fair" ... fairness is everyone receiving exactly what he or she deserves

1. Everyone without exception sins and falls short of the righteousness of God which he requires.
Original Sin (imputed guilt/inherited corruption) - a hereditary corruption and depravity of our nature, extending to all the parts of the soul, which first makes us obnoxious to the wrath of God, and then produces in us works which in Scripture are termed works of the flesh. Paul testifies, that: Romans 5:12 "death passed [imputation] upon all men, for that all have sinned," (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22).
Why exactly do we sin? The simple answer is this: we sin because we want to sin. We are strongly inclined to sin. We are disposed to sin. In our fallen nature, we have a desire for sin. At the moment of sinning, we want to sin more than we want to please Christ and obey God. Otherwise, we would not do it. R.C. Sproul Truths We Confess

2. God is holy and separated from sin. Since all have sin per point #1, God must separated from that sin.
Holiness, is to be regarded not as a distinct attribute, but as the resultant of all God's moral attributes together. Holiness means not only that He is separate from all that is unclean and evil but also that He is positively pure and thus distinct from all others. The two aspects of this divine attribute place emphasis on his moral perfection and metaphysical transcendence. Both aspects imply separation from that which is morally or metaphysically inferior. To be holy is to be moral perfection (pure and righteous), and also aloof and separated.
If he did not hate it, he would hate himself: for since righteousness is his image, and sin would deface his image; if he did not love his image, and loathe what is against his image, he would loathe himself, he would be an enemy to his own nature.

3. In many people’s minds, fairness is everyone receiving exactly what he or she deserves. If God were completely “fair,” by this definition, we would all spend eternity in hell paying for our sin, which is exactly what we deserve. (Gotquestions.org) Therefore, God is "fair" to everyone for ALL deserve eternal death. To those the go to hell God is fair/just, to those that believe in Him He is gracious. God is not obligated to be "gracious" to anyone; His essence causes Him to always be just.

Sidebar:

Is it fair that only those who heard of and believe in Jesus can be saved?​

The statement may be based on a false premise. Specifically, a majority of Christians theologians believe those who die before the 'age of accountability' go to heaven. If this be true, then this is an "weighty" exception to the question at hand.

 

[jaybird]

According to the Joshua Project, there are 2 billion unreached people who never heard the name of Jesus.

In countries like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, where Bibles are forbidden and Christianity is prohibited, the only God that people know is Allah, and the only Jesus they know is Isa (the Muslim name for Jesus), the prophet in the Qur'an who denied being the son of God. They do not know the Jesus who was sent as a final sacrifice for our sins and through whom we can come to the Father. Preaching the Gospel is forbidden. So while it is true that people in these countries have heard of the name of God (called "Allah" in their local languages), they do not know the name of Jesus as He is known in the Gospel.

While it can be argued that these people naturally know right from wrong, I don't think it can be argued that they naturally know that Jesus is the son of God and therefore, they are without excuse for not knowing Him. The Gospel cannot be known aside from preaching.

its hard for me to bel;ieve that it all comes down to who has the proper christology, something Jesus spent little time teaching and Christians dont even agree on.
im not a big fan of constintine but one of the few things e said that i agree with is he didnt understand why the Christians ignored so much of what Jesus taught and spent all their time arguing who Jesus was.

 

[Randy]

Randy:

1 Peter 4:6 does not necessarily support the view that the Gospel was preached to the dead. It could be read to mean that the Gospel was preached to the living who are now dead. In other words, the Gospel was preached to them, then they died, and now they are dead.

Here is how the NIV translates the verse:
1Pe 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

The NKJV translates the verse as:
1Pe 4:6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

However, there are multiple interpretations to 1 Peter 4:6, and some maintain that it is referring to the preaching of the Gospel to those who are already dead. This article discusses the various interpretations. I do not believe the verse is clear either way.

I would say that if indeed 1 Peter 4:6 means that the Gospel is preached to the dead who never heard the Gospel during their lives, then there is fairness to the Bible's message of salvation. It would mean that all people, including those who died never hearing of Jesus, have an equal chance at salvation.1Peter 3

1 Peter 3 - same letter which precedes vs 4
19After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

 

[jmt356]

2 Macabbes is where Catholics get their idea of a purgatory and that everyone will go to be with Christ when He returns. There is no purgatory as this is just something that man dreamed up and is not of God. In Psalms 88 we see Heman was asking God these three questions in vs. 10-12 as he was sore plexed in approching his own death and was not sure that he would escape the wrath of God in judgement and was wondering if those who died who are in the grave could hear Gods voice. Psalms 6:5; Hebrews 9:27; Matthew 8:21,22; 2 Corinthians 5:8-11; Revelation 14:13 are just for a few scriptures all state the grave is a place of unconscienceness where there is no memory and souls are not capable of anything as it is dark silence waiting that of Gods judgement at the end of time when Christ returns and separates the sheep from the goats. They have no knowledge, no comfort, no praise of God, and most assuredly, no power of intercession.

for_his_glory:

I disagree with your interpretation. I find nothing in the verses cited that states that those who died and are in the grave cannot hear God's voice or cannot come to faith or repentance.

In Psalms 88:10-12, Heman the Ezrahite asks a series of questions:
Psa 88:10 Will You work wonders for the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise You? Selah
Psa 88:11 Shall Your lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or Your faithfulness in the place of destruction?
Psa 88:12 Shall Your wonders be known in the dark? And Your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

He never gives the answer to those questions. I believe the answer is "yes." Certainly, God works wonders for the dead. He even raised the dead, including Lazarus and Jairus's daughter. A man who was being buried touched Elisha's bones and revived and stood on his feet (2Ki 13:21).

There is even evidence that the Gospel is preached to the dead:
- Christ preached to the “spirits in prison” (1Pe 3:19)
- The Gospel was preached to the dead (1Pe 4:6)

What is the purpose of preaching to the dead if they cannot repent and come to faith?

There are some verses that suggest that the dead do not praise God from the grave:
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the grave who will give You thanks?
Psa 115:17 The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence.

But this does not exclude the possibility that God could reveal Himself to the dead, preach the Gospel and give them an opportunity to repent and come to faith.

You quoted several verses that suggest that in the afterlife, we are held accountable for our works in this life:
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad (NIV)
Rev 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

I find these verses conflict with the message of the Gospel, which is that all of us, when we die, receive eternal punishment because of our sins, but those who believe in Christ, are forgiven and redeemed; sinners who have faith in Christ go to paradise, and all of the rest, including those who strive to be good people, are eternally damned. Therefore, our works are irrelevant. However, 2Co 5:10 and Rev 14:13 suggest that our works in this life are relevant for the next life, and we will receive "what is due us" in the next life. This does not seem consistent with Paul's message in Romans.

 

[for_his_glory]

jmt356 it's your choice to ignore those scriptures I gave as they are not my interpretation as those scriptures speak for themselves.

Psalms 88:10-12 you said he never gives an answer, but it is only your opinion that you believe the answer is yes. You can read into scripture what you want to place there.

Those verses in 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 14:13 do not conflict with the Gospel message as they are a part of the message in full context.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Our works whether they be good or bad in this lifetime is very relevant as when Christ returns He will bring the rewards with Him in judgement.

Jesus never went down to hell (lower parts of the earth) to preach as scripture says He went to preach to the spirits in prison. When Jesus laid in the tomb for three days his body was dead, but His spirit was very much alive. In 1 Peter 3:19 it says Jesus being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison. The spirits in prison that Jesus went to preach to are those angels that are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Scripture does not say what Jesus preached to them, but some speculate that He was proclaiming to these fallen angels that Satan had no victory over His death. These angels are separate from the third Satan gathered with him as these angels bound in chains kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, Jude 1:5-7.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men means that those who were a slave to sin are now given the free gift of God's grace through Christ as being the fulfillment of the Temple sacrifices. The lower parts of the earth just means the grave being underground.

These angels that have been bound and chained in prison until the day of judgement, Jesus was making show of them openly, triumphing over them in it, Colossians 2:13-15. This means that those who come to Jesus their sin is blotted out having spoiled these angels (principalities and power) who caused men to sin and that they too will be judged and cast into the lake of fire reserved for Satan and his angels.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[Blade]

Hi Blade and welcome to CF.

I don't know why but that verse which is found in John 9:41 reminds me of, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
John 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

I once was lost, but now I'm found, was blind, but now I see.

Hi.. thanks Not sure I follow you. I fully understand how it was written and to whom None the less its still true. Hard to judge someone on something they never heard. I know a old Jewish man lived in New York. The year 2000 and never heard of Jesus. Saved now praise GOD.

Then truth whos Jesus are we talking about? All that aside.. I know everyone gets a choice. I asked when I was very young "how can you send all these people to hell" He came right back with (oh I pray wish that happened every time lol ) "for God so loved the world. Everyone gets a choice". Hearing that at such a young age not understanding "gets a choice". So..yeah.. I have no worries. Hes the best one for the Job..

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi.. thanks Not sure I follow you. I fully understand how it was written and to whom None the less its still true. Hard to judge someone on something they never heard. I know a old Jewish man lived in New York. The year 2000 and never heard of Jesus. Saved now praise GOD.

Then truth whos Jesus are we talking about? All that aside.. I know everyone gets a choice. I asked when I was very young "how can you send all these people to hell" He came right back with (oh I pray wish that happened every time lol ) "for God so loved the world. Everyone gets a choice". Hearing that at such a young age not understanding "gets a choice". So..yeah.. I have no worries. Hes the best one for the Job..

Only God can judge the heart.

 

[Blade]

Only God can judge the heart.

Oh.. praise GOD glory to Jesus.. amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is an excellent question. Often times many may wonder, "What about those people in the middle of nowhere that have never heard about God or Jesus?"

Those that lived before Jesus from what I understand were in a "holding place"/Sheol after they passed away. (The Old Testament meaning of Sheol was used differently than the New Testament that uses the word for "Hades"). Before the death of Jesus, Sheol was a place where the souls were kept. Between this Paradise and Hell where everyone was, there was what we see in Luke 16:26 described as a "great chasm" that separated the eternal life/peace and eternal death/suffering. The saints of the Old and New Testament are enjoying their reward with our Heavenly Father and they have been for a long time.

For those that have never heard, there are some interesting Bible verses about this:

Romans 1:20 NIV:
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


Remember, that God is a righteous judge and his judgement is as fair as it gets. We must also remember that Jesus is patient:

2 Peter 3:9 NIV:
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


He doesn't want to see anyone not repent in their life. We see God's creation and His power around us daily so we are without excuse. It has been said that as people we naturally know if there is a painting then there must be a painter. If there's a building, there must've been architects, engineers, and construction workers. Since there is God's creation, it would be natural for us to consider, "Where is the creator?"

God's word is clear that those who do not believe in Jesus will perish. One must believe in Jesus to fully accept God. As Romans mentions, we have no excuse. It's a choice that we all make.

Hi LR,,,,
How could you say all of the above and then end up with your last sentence??


How do you reconcile Romans 1:19-20 and then say that those who do not know Jesus will perish?

 

[Luminous_Rose]

you say all of the above and then end up with your last

Hi LR,,,,
How could you say all of the above and then end up with your last sentence??


How do you reconcile Romans 1:19-20 and then say that those who do not know Jesus will perish?

Earlier someone mentioned to me that Romans 1:18-20 was about God's wrath against sinful humanity and didn't believe it apply to the situation in which I used that verse. I haven't personally gone back to look into it much further at this time.

Although, there is nothing in Romans 1:18-20 that suggests people that don't know Jesus absolutely can go to Heaven.

Perhaps I'm not clear on what you're asking.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Jesus is for sure the only way, the problem with this passage is so many hear it and assume this means calling yourself "Christian" is the way. there are mega church money prachers that call themselves Christian, i wouldnt want to be them in the next life.
IMO the way of Jesus is living the way Jesus lived, following that example, it has nothing to do with what temple you pray at. if people think it means hearing about Jesus and making a proclamation, it also means anyone born outside of Christianity gets punished in hell because of where they were born. and worse than that, many of these people would have been better off had Jesus never came in the first place. that doesnt sound like "good news" to me

I agree with your views. The good Samaritan was not a Christian , neither did he even know Christ, yet Jesus not only upholds him high , but also alludes Himself to the Samaritan , who goes out of the way, to help and save the life of a stranger who lies wounded and dying on wayside. That is the man (the Samaritan) who captured the heart of the Messiah. There are many good Samaritans in this world who have no relationship with the messiah, but because they practiced loving compassion in their lives , will ultimately not only be saved but greatly exalted on the last day . Because God and Christ are love. The universe itself is love (Jeremiah 23:23-24). ( one must understand this Bible narrated fact, and not consider Him a human like character....the entire body of universe exists within the body of God, ...His spirit fills the universe. That Soirit that fills the endless universe is Love. Whoever does not love, will on the last day be rejected, Christian or otherwise. Jesus warns this in unequivocal terms in the future vision of the judgment day, the vision of Goat and Sheep. Apostle John got this (truth) from Christ and therefore cautions us in 1John 4:8 : whoever does not love does not know God , who is love. Godly love is opposite of sin and it is selfless. Jesus wanted only such in His world.Just my two cents. Also everyone who wants to be saved will lose their salvation, Jesus warns Jesus in Matthew 16:25 "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it"
Bottomline : When Jesus said "I'm the only way" He was absolutely right . Substitute the word "I" with Love because Jesus is love ( 1 John 4:8, John 10:30), what do we now get? LOVE is the only way! The entire universe is Love ....?