Is it Necessary to Keep the Law?

[reddogs]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'. And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians. Is this true or are the moral precepts just as needed today as they were when God wrote them on the tables of stone. If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. From Christ's perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual essence of keeping the law which many wouldn't recognize, nor made possible apart from Him.

Even though the law points out sin, it has no power to save from sin. There is no justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save a single soul, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us the 'knowledge of sin' and our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ. And it also tells us...
James 1:23-25
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[Tenchi]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians.

Yes, it is important to keep the Moral Law of God and to live in conformity to the spiritual principles and wisdom given to us in Scripture. "Without holiness (which necessarily entails obedience to God's commands) no man shall see God" (Hebrews 12:14b). No Christian, though, is bound under the laws of separation and ceremony of the OT Israelites (Hebrews 9-10; Galatians 3:1-5:12).

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God?

This would be the heresy of antinomianism.

And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking.

But not you, of course, right? You believe you're quite exempt from this problem, I presume?

The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians.

The Bible say a lot more about what "sin" is than this.

James 4:17 (Luke 12:47)
Mark 3:29
1 John 5:17
Leviticus 5:14-17

And so on.

If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined.

And therefore even more impossible to fulfill. As a result, Jesus came to fulfill the law for us and impute his righteousness to us, thereby making us perfect before God and acceptable to Him. We obey God, then, only as a by-product of the life of the Spirit within us, not as any part of how it is we are made acceptable to God.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying.

Right. Amen.

Romans 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

 

[miamited]

Hi reddogs

Well first of all, I'd question what law you're referring to. Only the 10 commandment law or all of the laws and regulations and strictures that God gave to Israel. Further, as for we who live since the sacrifice for sin made through Jesus, the law has been brought down to only two commands. To love God and love others. Of course, when we look at the 10 commandment law, we can see that that's really what that law says too, but it lists them as infractions rather than just doing what's right in God's sight.

The first four are about loving God. The last 6 are about doing unto others what we would do for ourselves. I think that those laws stand always and forever for God's children to obey, and strive to keep. As far as the many other laws and regulations given to the people of Israel, I've always considered that those are only for the people of Israel before the new covenant.

That's my take.

God bless,
Ted

 

[WIP]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'. And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians. Is this true or are the moral precepts just as needed today as they were when God wrote them on the tables of stone. If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. From Christ's perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual essence of keeping the law which many wouldn't recognize, nor made possible apart from Him.

Even though the law points out sin, it has no power to save from sin. There is no justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save a single soul, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us the 'knowledge of sin' and our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ. And it also tells us...
James 1:23-25
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

My answer to your question is this. If you truly love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, and all your strength then how could you not want to keep the law? Isn't that what Paul also states in the Scripture you quoted from Romans 6? It would seem that not keeping the law demonstrates a lack of love, does it not?

 

[journeyman]

Hello reddogs.
If we look at how the law shows us all how I am a sinner, I should myself understand that in Gods' eyes I'm no better than anyone.
When we see how God shows all sinners His wonderful attributes of love, patience, etc, I should understand to show others His character I keep the law that way, by faith in Him.

As we grow that way, sin starts disappearing from our conduct. Gods' Spirit not only gives us direction we might not agree with or "feel like" (loving that person I can't stand), but we actually start to love the people we can't stand. It's almost hilarious.

 

[reddogs]

Yes, it is important to keep the Moral Law of God and to live in conformity to the spiritual principles and wisdom given to us in Scripture. "Without holiness (which necessarily entails obedience to God's commands) no man shall see God" (Hebrews 12:14b). No Christian, though, is bound under the laws of separation and ceremony of the OT Israelites (Hebrews 9-10; Galatians 3:1-5:12).



This would be the heresy of antinomianism.



But not you, of course, right? You believe you're quite exempt from this problem, I presume?



The Bible say a lot more about what "sin" is than this.

James 4:17 (Luke 12:47)
Mark 3:29
1 John 5:17
Leviticus 5:14-17

And so on.



And therefore even more impossible to fulfill. As a result, Jesus came to fulfill the law for us and impute his righteousness to us, thereby making us perfect before God and acceptable to Him. We obey God, then, only as a by-product of the life of the Spirit within us, not as any part of how it is we are made acceptable to God.



Right. Amen.

Romans 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

How would you read these words of Christ ...

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

 

[reddogs]

Hi reddogs

Well first of all, I'd question what law you're referring to. Only the 10 commandment law or all of the laws and regulations and strictures that God gave to Israel. Further, as for we who live since the sacrifice for sin made through Jesus, the law has been brought down to only two commands. To love God and love others. Of course, when we look at the 10 commandment law, we can see that that's really what that law says too, but it lists them as infractions rather than just doing what's right in God's sight.

The first four are about loving God. The last 6 are about doing unto others what we would do for ourselves. I think that those laws stand always and forever for God's children to obey, and strive to keep. As far as the many other laws and regulations given to the people of Israel, I've always considered that those are only for the people of Israel before the new covenant.

That's my take.

God bless,
Ted

Which one was written by Gods own finger...

Exodus 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

 

[reddogs]

My answer to your question is this. If you truly love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, and all your strength then how could you not want to keep the law? Isn't that what Paul also states in the Scripture you quoted from Romans 6? It would seem that not keeping the law demonstrates a lack of love, does it not?

Amen..

 

[reddogs]

Hello reddogs.
If we look at how the law shows us all how I am a sinner, I should myself understand that in Gods' eyes I'm no better than anyone.
When we see how God shows all sinners His wonderful attributes of love, patience, etc, I should understand to show others His character I keep the law that way, by faith in Him.

As we grow that way, sin starts disappearing from our conduct. Gods' Spirit not only gives us direction we might not agree with or "feel like" (loving that person I can't stand), but we actually start to love the people we can't stand. It's almost hilarious.

Yes, loving God and our fellowman as the Law gives us...

 

[miamited]

Which one was written by Gods own finger...

Exodus 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Morning reddogs

That's the reason that I tend to find cause to separate the 10 commandment law, from the other regulations and strictures that God gave unto His people Israel. Thanks for the support.

God bless,
Ted












2

 

[Tenchi]

How would you read these words of Christ ...

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

I never consider a verse removed from its immediate context. And so:

Luke 13:23-30
23 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them,
24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’
26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’
27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’
28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.
29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God.
30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

In context, what Jesus says in verse 27 is the response of the "Master of the house" to those who come to his door after he has shut it, pleading to enter his home. Though they claim some familiarity with him (we ate and drank in your presence, we heard you teach in the streets), the Master rejects them, not only as strangers, but as "workers of evil."

My understanding of Christ's words in verse 27, then, are that mere familiarity, or proximity, to Christ is not enough to enter into God's kingdom. This had obvious implications particularly for the Jewish people to whom Jesus was speaking. He even described those in the place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth" seeing "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets" in God's kingdom from which they themselves were cast out. This is clearly pointing out that mere Jewishness, being a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and so in cultural proximity to Christ who was himself a Jew, would not qualify Christ's audience for entrance into the kingdom of God.

Of what "iniquity," what "evil," were the latecomers to the Master's door guilty? Jesus doesn't say. He only mentions their expectation of being let in because of their presumed familiarity with the Master. We know, of course, on this side of the Atonement at Calvary, that all are guilty of sin before God (Romans 3:10, 23) and deserving of eternal hell and that the only remedy for this circumstance is saving faith in "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5). But Jesus says nothing in the passage from Luke 13 above of being himself the Narrow Door through which all must pass into God's kingdom.

John 10:7-9
7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Prior to the cross, Jesus intended only to make his Jewish listeners uncomfortable - concerned, even - about their presumed right as God's Chosen People, descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to entrance into the Master's house. The "workers of iniquity," then, in Luke 13:27 were specifically the Jewish people who were depending upon the Old Covenant to secure their place in God's kingdom.

You and I, though, are beneficiaries of the New Covenant, a "new living and way," forged through the once-for-all Atonement of Christ on the cross (Hebrews 9-10:22). Because we trust in him as our Savior, we are cleansed of the stain of our sin by his shed blood and freed of sin's power by our co-crucifixion with Christ on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 6:1-11; Hebrews 9:22-28). As those born-again, we stand before God clothed in the perfect, unchanging righteousness of Christ and thus made entirely and eternally acceptable to God. We have no righteousness of our own we can contribute to becoming acceptable to God (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:3-5; 2 Timothy 1:9) but stand before God always entirely dependent upon Christ's imputed righteousness as the basis for our acceptance by Him. Since Christ's perfect righteousness is always completely acceptable to God and we are clothed in that righteousness, we are always also acceptable to God. And so, though a born-again child of God may sin (Romans 6:1-2; Romans 7:14-25; 1 Corinthians 3:1-3; 5, 6, 11; Galatians 3:1-3; 1 John 1:8-10; 1 John 2:1-2, Revelation 2-3, etc.), the Master will never say to them, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

Luke 13:27, then, has no application to the born-again person.

 

[miamited]

And Jesus spoke to them in parables. So that they would be hearing but never understanding.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

"Law" is an ambiguous umbrella term, the way you put it in your question causes confusion and division. According to Rom. 13:1-2, Christians are expected to keep civil laws by "submitting to the governing authorities" who are appointed by God; Christians are also expected to keep moral laws, as Tenchi explained in post #2.

However, we're NOT expected to keep religious laws by practicing animal sacrifice or observing other Jewish customs, God does not delight in animal sacrifice at a literal temple, but our obedience in our body temple. Also, when the governing authority enforces its own religious laws, which is often disguised as civil laws in the name of "science" or "diversity" or "security" - you know what I'm talking about, we must obey God rather than men.

 

[reddogs]

I never consider a verse removed from its immediate context. And so:

Luke 13:23-30
23 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them,
24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’
26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’
27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’
28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.
29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God.
30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

In context, what Jesus says in verse 27 is the response of the "Master of the house" to those who come to his door after he has shut it, pleading to enter his home. Though they claim some familiarity with him (we ate and drank in your presence, we heard you teach in the streets), the Master rejects them, not only as strangers, but as "workers of evil."

My understanding of Christ's words in verse 27, then, are that mere familiarity, or proximity, to Christ is not enough to enter into God's kingdom. This had obvious implications particularly for the Jewish people to whom Jesus was speaking. He even described those in the place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth" seeing "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets" in God's kingdom from which they themselves were cast out. This is clearly pointing out that mere Jewishness, being a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and so in cultural proximity to Christ who was himself a Jew, would not qualify Christ's audience for entrance into the kingdom of God.

Of what "iniquity," what "evil," were the latecomers to the Master's door guilty? Jesus doesn't say. He only mentions their expectation of being let in because of their presumed familiarity with the Master. We know, of course, on this side of the Atonement at Calvary, that all are guilty of sin before God (Romans 3:10, 23) and deserving of eternal hell and that the only remedy for this circumstance is saving faith in "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5). But Jesus says nothing in the passage from Luke 13 above of being himself the Narrow Door through which all must pass into God's kingdom.

John 10:7-9
7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Prior to the cross, Jesus intended only to make his Jewish listeners uncomfortable - concerned, even - about their presumed right as God's Chosen People, descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to entrance into the Master's house. The "workers of iniquity," then, in Luke 13:27 were specifically the Jewish people who were depending upon the Old Covenant to secure their place in God's kingdom.

You and I, though, are beneficiaries of the New Covenant, a "new living and way," forged through the once-for-all Atonement of Christ on the cross (Hebrews 9-10:22). Because we trust in him as our Savior, we are cleansed of the stain of our sin by his shed blood and freed of sin's power by our co-crucifixion with Christ on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 6:1-11; Hebrews 9:22-28). As those born-again, we stand before God clothed in the perfect, unchanging righteousness of Christ and thus made entirely and eternally acceptable to God. We have no righteousness of our own we can contribute to becoming acceptable to God (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:3-5; 2 Timothy 1:9) but stand before God always entirely dependent upon Christ's imputed righteousness as the basis for our acceptance by Him. Since Christ's perfect righteousness is always completely acceptable to God and we are clothed in that righteousness, we are always also acceptable to God. And so, though a born-again child of God may sin (Romans 6:1-2; Romans 7:14-25; 1 Corinthians 3:1-3; 5, 6, 11; Galatians 3:1-3; 1 John 1:8-10; 1 John 2:1-2, Revelation 2-3, etc.), the Master will never say to them, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

Luke 13:27, then, has no application to the born-again person.

Unless they are still in bondage to sin, think Ravi Zacharias....

 

[Tenchi]

Unless they are still in bondage to sin, think Ravi Zacharias....

You mean, never truly born-again? Only these kind of people would qualify for what Jesus said in Luke 13:27. I don't know if Ravi Z. was never saved. Maybe. He certainly lived a wretched life...

 

[reddogs]

You mean, never truly born-again? Only these kind of people would qualify for what Jesus said in Luke 13:27. I don't know if Ravi Z. was never saved. Maybe. He certainly lived a wretched life...

So what about all the people that were following what he was teaching, got to think of them.

 

[reddogs]

Yes, it is important to keep the Moral Law of God and to live in conformity to the spiritual principles and wisdom given to us in Scripture. "Without holiness (which necessarily entails obedience to God's commands) no man shall see God" (Hebrews 12:14b). No Christian, though, is bound under the laws of separation and ceremony of the OT Israelites (Hebrews 9-10; Galatians 3:1-5:12).



This would be the heresy of antinomianism.



But not you, of course, right? You believe you're quite exempt from this problem, I presume?



The Bible say a lot more about what "sin" is than this.

James 4:17 (Luke 12:47)
Mark 3:29
1 John 5:17
Leviticus 5:14-17

And so on.



And therefore even more impossible to fulfill. As a result, Jesus came to fulfill the law for us and impute his righteousness to us, thereby making us perfect before God and acceptable to Him. We obey God, then, only as a by-product of the life of the Spirit within us, not as any part of how it is we are made acceptable to God.



Right. Amen.

Romans 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

So have you died to sin and left its bondage of iniquity?

 

[Tenchi]

So have you died to sin and left its bondage of iniquity?

In Christ, yes, I have. All born-again children of God, saved by His grace through faith in Christ, have been redeemed, justified, sanctified and been made dead to sin by, and in, Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2
2 ...to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ...

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

Romans 6:1-7
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.

This is my spiritual position and identity in Christ. Being spiritually-mature is the process whereby what is true of me in my position in Christ becomes what is true in my daily condition, in my everyday, temporal experience. I grow, over time, into greater and greater fellowship with God and, as I do, the life of Christ manifests in every greater degree in how I live, my conduct, desires and thinking reflecting more and more of him. (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 4:7-11)