Is it okay to lie to your kids if...

[handy]

I have to admit, Felix... you're the first person I've known to equate Christmas with Norse mythology. Most tie it to the Roman Saturnalia.

My point about American traditions of Santa and Rudolph, Frosty, etc... is that they are not pagan... They are wholly American secular traditions.

Early worshippers of Odin, or even those who venerated St. Nick wouldn't recognize Santa if he ran over them with his reindeer. These are not pagan traditions, they are secular.

It's not something to judge another about.

 

[felix]

I have to admit, Felix... you're the first person I've known to equate Christmas with Norse mythology. Most tie it to the Roman Saturnalia.

My point about American traditions of Santa and Rudolph, Frosty, etc... is that they are not pagan... They are wholly American secular traditions.

Early worshippers of Odin, or even those who venerated St. Nick wouldn't recognize Santa if he ran over them with his reindeer. These are not pagan traditions, they are secular.

It's not something to judge another about.

If they are wholly American secular traditions, why is it called Christmas (i.e, from the name Christ's Mass) using the title of Jesus in vain ?

 

[JustinAPetersWV]

If they are wholly American secular traditions, why is it called Christmas (i.e, from the name Christ's Mass) using the title of Jesus in vain ?

Maybe because many American traditions are just a miss match of various cultural traditions mixed with various religious customs (mostly various sects of christianity), plus whatever else seems to "catch on" like iconic movies and stories. Christmas, to a Christian, is first and foremost about Jesus. However, what is sinful about adding to that celebration with other traditions? Nobody is suggesting to worship Santa as a God, or equal to Jesus in any way. The two are completely separate from each other.

I think a major reason Santa is so popular in America is that it is something that Christians and non Christians alike can both indulge themselves with to represent love, compassion and generosity.

I have never met a single person who equates Santa with any religious practices of any kind, let alone pagan gods.

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[handy]

I think part of the problem here is that many Christians (often pastors) who don't want to have any kind of Christmas celebrations do the same thing with Christmas as they do with other things that have come down to us through ages and ages of history... read something and run with it. Google "origins of Santa Claus" and you'll see that there are a lot of different traditions that sort of morphed around over the ages. Most of these have little to nothing to do with what most American Christians view as Santa Claus, which as I mentioned before, mainly comes to us from Thomas Nast and Clement Moore (a cartoonist gave us the look and a poet gave us a character.) Frankly, it's impossible to prove in any way that Santa has anything to do with Norse mythology... any more than it is to prove that he is really the St. Nicholas that signed the Nicean creed. Mainly there isn't a lot of hard scholarship that goes into these various articles and "History of the Origions of" these things... these kind of social things sort of just morph over time.

The key for a Christian would be... is this something we worship? Are we making an idol of it? If not, then it isn't pagan or idol worship. If so, then stop that, that's sin...just as worshipping money is sin (something many do, but most don't call for the eradication of money.)

As for this question: If they are wholly American secular traditions, why is it called Christmas (i.e, from the name Christ's Mass) using the title of Jesus in vain ?

Christmas is a festival on the Church calendar to celebrate the birth of Christ. Christians all over the world have different ways of celebrating this. In American, many Christians have a mixture of both secular and religious traditions, from taking part in living Nativities (which my family did last weekend) to exchanging Christmas gifts (commemorating the gifts the Magi brought to Jesus) to having Santa Claus showing up as well.

I do note that generally those who would deny the freedom of Christians to celebrate Christmas at all or, if grudgingly allow for Christmas then certainly draw the line for others to stop at the secular traditions, are also the same that are pretty much in the habit of drawing the line for other Christians for all kinds of things.

We should never draw the line for others, only ourselves. If one has the conviction that one should never celebrate the birth of Christ at all... then don't. If one is OK with celebrating the birth of Christ, but dislikes the secular traditions that have cropped up around the holiday, then ignore them.

But really, who are we to ever judge the servant of another master? Let the Holy Spirit do that job.

 

[JustinAPetersWV]

I think part of the problem here is that many Christians (often pastors) who don't want to have any kind of Christmas celebrations do the same thing with Christmas as they do with other things that have come down to us through ages and ages of history... read something and run with it. Google "origins of Santa Claus" and you'll see that there are a lot of different traditions that sort of morphed around over the ages. Most of these have little to nothing to do with what most American Christians view as Santa Claus, which as I mentioned before, mainly comes to us from Thomas Nast and Clement Moore (a cartoonist gave us the look and a poet gave us a character.) Frankly, it's impossible to prove in any way that Santa has anything to do with Norse mythology... any more than it is to prove that he is really the St. Nicholas that signed the Nicean creed. Mainly there isn't a lot of hard scholarship that goes into these various articles and "History of the Origions of" these things... these kind of social things sort of just morph over time.

The key for a Christian would be... is this something we worship? Are we making an idol of it? If not, then it isn't pagan or idol worship. If so, then stop that, that's sin...just as worshipping money is sin (something many do, but most don't call for the eradication of money.)

As for this question: If they are wholly American secular traditions, why is it called Christmas (i.e, from the name Christ's Mass) using the title of Jesus in vain ?

Christmas is a festival on the Church calendar to celebrate the birth of Christ. Christians all over the world have different ways of celebrating this. In American, many Christians have a mixture of both secular and religious traditions, from taking part in living Nativities (which my family did last weekend) to exchanging Christmas gifts (commemorating the gifts the Magi brought to Jesus) to having Santa Claus showing up as well.

I do note that generally those who would deny the freedom of Christians to celebrate Christmas at all or, if grudgingly allow for Christmas then certainly draw the line for others to stop at the secular traditions, are also the same that are pretty much in the habit of drawing the line for other Christians for all kinds of things.

We should never draw the line for others, only ourselves. If one has the conviction that one should never celebrate the birth of Christ at all... then don't. If one is OK with celebrating the birth of Christ, but dislikes the secular traditions that have cropped up around the holiday, then ignore them.

But really, who are we to ever judge the servant of another master? Let the Holy Spirit do that job.

Well said...

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[felix]

I do note that generally those who would deny the freedom of Christians to celebrate Christmas at all or, if grudgingly allow for Christmas then certainly draw the line for others to stop at the secular traditions, are also the same that are pretty much in the habit of drawing the line for other Christians for all kinds of things.

We should never draw the line for others, only ourselves. If one has the conviction that one should never celebrate the birth of Christ at all... then don't. If one is OK with celebrating the birth of Christ, but dislikes the secular traditions that have cropped up around the holiday, then ignore them.

But really, who are we to ever judge the servant of another master? Let the Holy Spirit do that job.

Who told anyone is judging? We are called the proclaim the judgment of God. If I am judging, why would I even refer Scriptures? If I quote Scriptures, I am proclaiming the judgment of God and what He wants (not what I want).

Deut 12:29-32 "When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.' You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

What made you think God would be happy to see any Christian celebrate using a pagan customs for the birth of His son Jesus Christ, when Heavenly Father explicitly mentioned in the law not even to follow them in their ways ? What made you think that God's only Son would be happy for celebrating His birth using pagan symbols ?

Not satisfied?
(Exod 23:24) 24 You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and completely break down their [sacred] pillars.
(Lev 18:3) According to the doings of the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, you shall not do; and according to the doings of the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you, you shall not do; nor shall you walk in their ordinances.

 

[Stone-yarder]

Only if you think it's ok for your kids to lie to you. Otherwise that would be hypocritical, wouldn't it? A lie is a lie, Thou shalt not bear false witness. Since when did what we receive come from a mythical character named Santa Claus? Last time I read my bible, it said that every good & perfect given was given by God and the earth is the Lord's and everything in it. To tell your children otherwise is obviously unscriptural. We have an awesome responsibility to train up a child in the way he should go so that when he grows old he will not depart from it...do we dare justify misleading children for something in the name of fun? We are called to be in the world, not of the world. Just because many families embrace secular traditions, doesn't justify Christian participation. It is also written, friendship with the world is hatred toward God. Since my kids were old enough I told them right off the bat that there was no such thing as Santa Claus. And on their presents at Christmas, the little tags would read: From Jesus or From God or From Daddy or Mommy. I have never lied to my kids about anything. If there was a topic that I didn't feel they were old enough to understand, I told them that I would explain it to them when they were 18. And now that they are a little bit older, it seems in return, they are extremely open and honest with me. As for myself, when non-christians ask me if I celebrate Christmas, I tell them Christmas is every day of the year because I carry around in my body His birth, His life, His death, and His resurrection every moment of every day.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Is it okay to lie to your kids ... ??

No ifs, and, or buts ... never, ever, lie to them. But at the same time, don't ruin their childhood by exposing Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc., and when they guess the truth, don't let 'em ruin it for others, either.

 

[Matthew G]

Is it okay to lie to your kids ... ??

No ifs, and, or buts ... never, ever, lie to them. But at the same time, don't ruin their childhood by exposing Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc., and when they guess the truth, don't let 'em ruin it for others, either.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

All kidding aside, I'm a father of 3, although only my oldest is able to comprehend the idea of Santa (she's 7). She believes (her sister and brother will, too) in Santa. We tell our kids Santa is real in my house, but my oldest also knows why we celebrate Christmas. She knows that that's when we celebrate Jesus' birthday, because He was God's Son and came here to die on the cross so we could all go to Heaven. She doesn't put those two ideas on the same pedestal. Her exact words are, "I like getting presents, but I'm more happy because Jesus let me go to Heaven."

This will probably be the last year we do Santa with her, although for different reasons. I grew up believing in Santa and knowing nothing of Jesus, but today I can say that's had no effect on my faith in my adulthood. I don't think it's fair to crush a child's imagination. Perhaps it's a cliche', but I think children have a right to believe in magic, because so long as they do they're shielded from the absolutely grotesque truths of the fallen world we live in. As a parent, I'm aware of the fact that it's my job to prepare my children for that world, but I'm also aware that I know my children better than anyone except the Lord. When the time comes for them to face it, my children will be ready. Until that time, the magic of flying reindeer and a fat man who always leaves one bite of cookie and one sip of milk behind, and a relative of Tinker Bell who trades money for teeth, and a bunny who lays eggs like a chicken (her words, not mine, and yes, she knows why we really celebrate Easter, also) makes them happy, and lends imagination and innocence. I don't think it's right to take that away from them.

I realize I may be in a minority on this, but that's okay. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and has the right, more accurately the responsibility, of raising their children as best they see fit. For whatever it's worth, that's how I see fit. Blessings.

 

[felix]

... I think children have a right to believe in magic...

Magic?

Ps 34:11 Come, you children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

What?

My daughter believes in miracles not magic.

Acts 19:19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned [them] in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and [it] totaled fifty thousand [pieces] of silver.

So, you are taking those books and teaching your child as if they were truth?

Wow! If a children have a right to believe in magic, what makes you think an adult do not have that right?

How un-biblical is your explanation?

 

[Matthew G]

I meant magic in the figurative form, not literal witchcraft as spoken of in Acts 19. The notion that i would teach my children about spells and rituals and the like is ridiculous, and frankly offensive. We're talking about Santa Claus, not satanism. Again, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. There's no need to attack anyone.

 

[felix]

I meant magic in the figurative form, not literal witchcraft as spoken of in Acts 19. The notion that i would teach my children about spells and rituals and the like is ridiculous, and frankly offensive. We're talking about Santa Claus, not satanism. Again, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. There's no need to attack anyone.

Why don't you also tell that Santa Claus is god Odin in norse mythology and the presents and gifts are for the celebration to the Wild Hunt and the pagan Anglo-Saxon Modranicht and Yule ?

Why don't you also tell that Thor's Oak is the place where human sacrifices were made which is now converted to Christmas tree?

 

[Matthew G]

Why don't you also tell that Santa Claus is god Odin in norse mythology and the presents and gifts are for the celebration to the Wild Hunt and the pagan Anglo-Saxon Modranicht and Yule ?

Why don't you also tell that Thor's Oak is the place where human sacrifices were made which is now converted to Christmas tree?

Using that logic, why don't I go ahead and show her a video so she learns how a baby gets in mommy's tummy? Why don't I pour a bottle of whiskey down her throat, or shove a cigarette in her mouth? Why don't I tell her about rape and murder? Because she's seven years old, that's why! I offered my opinion, just like everyone else, and I've tried to accept yours, even saying that you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. But this crap you're saying is beyond ridiculous, and it's the second time you came out attacking me. I'm officially in the dimension of "shut up and walk away". But before I do, since you wanted to throw my un-biblical explanation at me, let me remind you that your comments (particularly the one I just quoted) fits squarely within the confines of Matthew 7:1-5.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
<sup class="versenum">3 </sup>And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
<sup class="versenum">4 </sup>Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Also using your logic, let me ask you a final question. When my daughter was 4, she got out of bed and walked into the living room when my wife and I were watching a scary movie, and what she saw horrified her. Tell me, should I have done what I did, which was to explain that it's only a movie, just make believe, and that they use makeup to make people look like that and computers too kind of like a cartoon? By the way, she immediately calmed down, had a pleasant night's sleep, and 3 years later I still haven't heard another word about it. Or I suppose you think I should have been honest and said, "Yep. That's what happens when you drag a hacksaw across a person's mouth. And then if they're lucky enough to survive, they have to go to the hospital where they'll get a huge needle shoved in their face to numb it while they get dozens of stitches put in their face to hold it together."?

I'm aware now that you'll undoubtedly call into question what kind of person I must be to watch a horror movie. Let me just tell you to save your breath, because I'm old enough and mature enough to handle to material, and what I do in my house isn't in your jurisdiction. I've officially had enough, and am bowing out of this conversation. If you want to continue it, you can PM me, and I'll get back to you. I'm not going to be talked to like a low-life idiot who doesn't care about his children, so you can cut that crap right now.

 

[felix]

Matthew G, you assume any one declaring God's judgment using Bible as, as if it is their own.

Anyway, it was a boy who beheaded a Giant and it was to a child the destruction of house of Eli is informed. Being unbiblical is not any opinion nor anyone's judgment. Please use scripture to show if any is unbiblical.

Please do not use Judge not on people who declare God's judgment using Bible . Also, loving to watch and enjoy horror is not about being mature but shows only you enjoyment in others suffering - Don't know how much Christian is that.

 

[Matthew G]

Also, loving to watch and enjoy horror is not about being mature but shows only you enjoyment in others suffering - Don't know how much Christian is that.

Apologies. I failed to realize you're a professional psychiatrist. I asked you to PM me if you wanted to continue this, instead you want to play cute and continue attacking me in public. I'm trying very hard to remain calm, but you are rapidly exhausting my patience. Although I couldn't help but notice you didn't answer any of my questions, choosing instead to skirt them in favor of another personal attack. Let me pose one more that you may or may not answer. I hope, in the interest of not being a hypocrite, that Disney movies are banned in your home. Would that be a correct assumption?

 

[AirDancer]

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