Is it Possible for a True Christian to lose their Salvation.

[JLB]

Please. This is always your intention. It is the intention of all believers flesh to see that way. To destroy one another.

The flesh of all of us IS and REMAINS contrary to the Spirit. As much as we vainly try to justify it, it will not happen. Gal. 5:17 is FIXED.

We can claim our flesh is not contrary to and against the Spirit. And in that claim, we are the pawn of a liar.

You may be a pawn of the liar... speak for yourself.

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

You seem to want the devil in your flesh, as thats all you seem to believe... the lie!!!


JLB

 

[smaller]

You may be a pawn of the liar... speak for yourself.

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

You seem to want the devil in your flesh, as thats all you seem to believe... the lie!!!

JLB

Paul admitted, quite honestly, to the WAR in his own mind.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[JLB]

Paul admitted, quite honestly, to the WAR in his own mind.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Yes sin is in our members.

BUT KEEP READING!!!

We have been given the Holy Spirit, to walk in victory over the sin in our members.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Romans 7:23-8:1


JLB

 

[smaller]

Yes sin is in our members.

BUT KEEP READING!!!

We have been given the Holy Spirit, to walk in victory over the sin in our members.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Romans 7:23-8:1

JLB

IF we understand that there IS a war, then that WAR demands an adversary, to be destroyed.

Eph. 6:11-13 tells us exactly who our opponent is. And it's NOT ourselves.

Don't know why this is hard for anyone BUT that adversary to see quite frankly.

Do we let our adversary off the hook? Never.

 

[Malachi]

Paul admitted, quite honestly, to the WAR in his own mind.

He also concluded that he had the victory through Christ.

 

[smaller]

He also concluded that he had the victory through Christ.

Paul never extended that VICTORY to his own contrary flesh, the sin dwelling in his flesh or the evil present with him.

That much is CERTAIN. Paul took on a position of HATRED for his own admittedly VILE body, because of the workings above. He was no LIAR about these facts. And in that, he bore the FRUIT of honesty and presented to US the quest for CHANGE from Christ as the ONLY matter to look forward to.

And, fwiw, Paul NEVER claimed the VICTORY in his current state:

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

In the meantime, what we bear, we bear our faith in Christ in FAULTED flesh vessels that have NO REMEDY. Gal. 5:17.

 

[FreeGrace]

I would say they are not believers...

Ok, please share with us the scriptures that say "un-believers" are saved.

I believe that Jesus was quite clear in His statement in John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

It is clear: those to whom He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

It should be quite clear from what Jesus said about those to whom He has given eternal life, that those referred to in Rev 21:8 NEVER believed.

Because if they had ever believed, they would NEVER PERISH, as Jesus promises to those He gives eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

Eternal death.

Please explain clearly how one who has been given eternal life by Jesus ever experience eternal death??

This is what Jesus said in John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

There is nothing in the context of that verse that includes any kind of exceptions, conditions, or caveats.

We know that He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him WHEN they believe. So, what does Jn 10:28 say? That those who have believed WILL NEVER PERISH.

And there aren't any verses that teach that if one who believes then goes and does something else, like quit believing, sinful lifestyle, etc, will have their eternal life taken away from them.

In fact, Scripture is very clear: eternal life is a gift of God per Rom 6:23. And then Paul went on to say that God's gifts are irrevocable in Rom 11:29.

So we know that God will not take away one's eternal life.

So, the only option left for the conditional security crowd is to prove from Scripture that the believer himself can give away His eternal life. But we already know that there are no such verses.

 

[Cygnus]

Eternal death.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


Does the phrase "save a soul from death" mean anything to you?


Here's how James begins his letter:

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:12-15


Here is what he goes on to say...


4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

and ends with -

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


JLB

You've presented one view, and I might add, not very convincing.

Sin when it is full grown "brings forth death" .... Your theology when applied to this verse says that you're not condemned to hell until your sin is full grown. Really? I don't think so. You seem to be trying to make James say what you think and not what James intended to say.

 

[Cygnus]

I believe that Jesus was quite clear in His statement in John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

It is clear: those to whom He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.


It should be quite clear from what Jesus said about those to whom He has given eternal life, that those referred to in Rev 21:8 NEVER believed.

Because if they had ever believed, they would NEVER PERISH, as Jesus promises to those He gives eternal life.

Nice answer FreeGrace,
I wish somebody would explain how someone can be snatched out of Jesus or the Fathers hands.....and lose eternal life.

Eternal does mean eternal?

 

[JLB]

Nice answer FreeGrace,
I wish somebody would explain how someone can be snatched out of Jesus or the Fathers hands.....and lose eternal life.

Eternal does mean eternal?

Do you know what eternal life is?


JLB

 

[JLB]

You've presented one view, and I might add, not very convincing.

Sin when it is full grown "brings forth death" .... Your theology when applied to this verse says that you're not condemned to hell until your sin is full grown. Really? I don't think so. You seem to be trying to make James say what you think and not what James intended to say.

I didn't present any view.

I just quoted James, and pointed to the context you asked for.

Your issue is with James.


JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Do you know what eternal life is?


JLB

Yup. Eternal life is what I have right now. I have been placed into the hands of Jesus...and your doctrine can't snatch me from His hands.

 

[Cygnus]

I didn't present any view.

I just quoted James, and pointed to the context you asked for.

Your issue is with James.


JLB

My issue is with how you distort James.
I call your theology...Constellation theology.

 

[smaller]

I didn't present any view.

I just quoted James, and pointed to the context you asked for.

Your issue is with James.

JLB

What anyone reads into the scriptures is, in every way, a reflection of their own HEARTS. Heb. 4:12

So, what do you reflect? Whatever that reflection IS, is by no means, Perfect.

Scripture tells me that LOVE NEVER fails. 1 Cor. 13:8. Yet you present that to not be the case, and in fact present the sight of OPPOSITION to that fact.

 

[smaller]

You've presented one view, and I might add, not very convincing.

Sin when it is full grown "brings forth death" .... Your theology when applied to this verse says that you're not condemned to hell until your sin is full grown. Really? I don't think so. You seem to be trying to make James say what you think and not what James intended to say.

That is exactly what is supposed to happen. That is exactly what happened with Paul in Romans 7.

 

[JLB]

Yup. Eternal life is what I have right now. I have been placed into the hands of Jesus...and your doctrine can't snatch me from His hands.

It will be your choice to walk away from God, because you simple no longer believe.

My issue is with how you distort James.
I call your theology...Constellation theology.

This is what Jesus said in John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

The stop believing.

Those who believe for awhile, then fall away, have become an un-believer.

Eternal life is for believers.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

In a time of persecution and tribulation, these fall away from Christ, and no longer believe.


Those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13



JLB

 

[Cygnus]

It will be your choice to walk away from God, because you simple no longer believe.






The stop believing.

Those who believe for awhile, then fall away, have become an un-believer.

Eternal life is for believers.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

In a time of persecution and tribulation, these fall away from Christ, and no longer believe.


Those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13



JLB

You said..."Those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13"...Once again you resort to takeing scripture out of the context in which it was written.

Read around the verse....the whole chapter.
In light of the chapter ask yourself, endures what? Saved from what? To the end of what?

 

[WIP]

You said..."Those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13"...Once again you resort to takeing scripture out of the context in which it was written.

Read around the verse....the whole chapter.
In light of the chapter ask yourself, endures what? Saved from what? To the end of what?

To claim another is wrong without offering your viewpoint is not edifying or advancing this discussion.

 

[FreeGrace]

Nice answer FreeGrace,
I wish somebody would explain how someone can be snatched out of Jesus or the Fathers hands.....and lose eternal life.

Eternal does mean eternal?

Yes, it does. And eternal life is an irrevocable gift (Rom 6:23 - 11:29). And eternal life cannot co-exist in the second death. They are absolutely mutually exclusive.

I think the conditional security crowd would answer your question about John 10:28 that "no one" doesn't include themselves, which is a farse, of course.

Because "no one" literally means "no person". So unless those people don't consider themselves persons, then maybe they would have a point.