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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Is it Possible for a True Christian to lose their Salvation.
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Revelation 22:19 KJV
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
eddif
The tree of life is part of special rewards in eternity for those who were faithful.
Because of what Scripture so clearly states:
1. the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Rom 11:29
2. eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23
3. therefore, eternal life is an irrevocable gift.
Further, Jesus Himself taught this:
1. Those who believe HAVE in the present tense eternal life. John 5:24
2. Therefore, one HAS eternal life WHEN one believes. John 5:24
3. Those Jesus gives eternal life will never perish. John 10:28
4. There is no condition regarding the promise of never perishing to those He gives eternal life. John 10:28
If eternal life can be taken away, where does the Bible say so? This question has never been answered from Scripture.
Deuteronomy 9:13 KJV
Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
Now this is OT, but notice the similarities:
He wants a permanent people.
He will destroy a group.
He will raise up a new group.
He can start from individual / reminant
As individuals or groups we should not get the big I / We attitude. Yes The gifts and calling of God is without repentance, but the group / individual can change in a heartbeat. Salvation is going to exist, but the who can change.
Now Moses goes on to intercede for the people. The people are not destroyed.
What keeps us saved? :
Intercession (Jesus and his representatives)
Church discipline
Holy Spirit working within us
Destruction of flesh
Grace
What does not keep us saved:
Works of Law
Belonging to a particular group
Ceremony without relationship
Picking ourself out of overtaking sin (sometimes we need some outside help)
The gifts and callings are for always.
The ones practicing them should work out their salvation with fear and trembling.
This especially includes Mississippi rednecks.
eddif
Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
Now this is OT, but notice the similarities:
He wants a permanent people.
He will destroy a group.
He will raise up a new group.
He can start from individual / reminant
As individuals or groups we should not get the big I / We attitude. Yes The gifts and calling of God is without repentance, but the group / individual can change in a heartbeat. Salvation is going to exist, but the who can change.
Now Moses goes on to intercede for the people. The people are not destroyed.
What keeps us saved? :
Intercession (Jesus and his representatives)
Church discipline
Holy Spirit working within us
Destruction of flesh
Grace
What does not keep us saved:
Works of Law
Belonging to a particular group
Ceremony without relationship
Picking ourself out of overtaking sin (sometimes we need some outside help)
The gifts and callings are for always.
The ones practicing them should work out their salvation with fear and trembling.
This especially includes Mississippi rednecks.
eddif
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
What IS the Kingdom of God?
Does Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven mean the same thing?
What does "will not inherit the kingdom of God mean?
Wondering
Can I add to question?
Revelation 21:2 KJV
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
It is your question. If it does fit we can wait and discuss it later.
eddif
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Is this why it's called
The New TESTAMENT, maybe.
JohnDB
Member
Testament is a double entendre word for Covenant as well as testifying.
I believe that there is a portion of the answer in this.
Oops I posted this second comment too.
Who me hyper? I reckon. You be done gotten into an area I likes.
eddif
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
No problem!
Here is what Romans 6:23 "so clearly states"...
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
Paul warns Christians a life on sin will lead to death, as the context so clearly states.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:15-23
All throughout Romans Paul reiterates this truth, as he does in all his letters.
Taking a half of a verse, and splicing together with another half of a verse, while ignoring the context is the mark of a doctrine that is inspired by man, and not the Holy Spirit.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
The context of Romans 11:29
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:19-29
- Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith.
Jesus plainly taught that those who are disconnected from Him, will end up in the fire and burned.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
JLB
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
If a person does not inherit the kingdom of God, then what kingdom are you teaching they inherit?
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34
This is what Jesus taught His Apostles the term meant, on the Day of Judgement.
Those who do not inherit the kingdom of God, will not be with the Lord, but be sentenced to the fires of hell.
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
Not inheriting the kingdom = sent to the fires of hell.
JLB
smaller
Member
Eternally saved or saved at any particular point in time or reasonable assurances of salvation, but not surety. These are the 3 main talking points on the subject matter.
The super majority of sects hold the last underlined point above. In other words, a majority of believers (sects) do not even believe they are saved, only that they might be. IN some such sects it could or would even be considered a "heresy" for a believer to claim they are, in the now, permanently forever saved.
So I ask any believer who believes salvation can be lost to weigh in on how critical they think their stance is?
Is it MANDATORY to believe you might not be saved in order to (might) be saved?
IF this is not a critical mandatory point, then it is a worthless point, as there are many other points of reason why people depart the faith, like not being saved to begin with or disagreements of conscience with points of doctrines, etc.
And I'd ask the same question to those who hold the first underlined point:
IS it mandatory to believe you absolutely are forever saved in order to be saved?
Since this particular friction seems to permeate the majority of conversations I'd like to see a weigh in of how many believers are "forced" into (potential) condemnation of other believers over their sights of how mandatory their particular stance is.
I personally think the scriptures give space for all 3 sights, and am not interested whatsoever in entering into condemnation of other believers over the matters. If they are weak or strong or in between wouldn't really matter to me UNLESS any particular sects "hard line doctrine" made it mandatory to enter into CONDEMNATION. There, I'd have to draw a line of departure.
Romans 14:1
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
I might add, in light of the above, that the underlined points of observation 2 and 3 above makes "doubt" mandatory. And I reject any forms of disputations that promote doubt. If I have to doubt, I prefer to not. I don't doubt Jesus' Abilities to save every believer, whether they themselves believe this or not. And I hold this to keep myself out of condemnation to other believers and out of doubt of our Savior. It's a point of conscience for me. IF I enter into condemnation, then I HAVE NOT LISTENED AND APPLIED TO JESUS OWN WORDS, HERE:
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
I might even say that those who are fully persuaded into doubt, have perhaps doubted themselves out of the equations of faith, and proved themselves doubters. Not that I would condemn them, as it would be a "personal problem" in the mind of such holders.
The super majority of sects hold the last underlined point above. In other words, a majority of believers (sects) do not even believe they are saved, only that they might be. IN some such sects it could or would even be considered a "heresy" for a believer to claim they are, in the now, permanently forever saved.
So I ask any believer who believes salvation can be lost to weigh in on how critical they think their stance is?
Is it MANDATORY to believe you might not be saved in order to (might) be saved?
IF this is not a critical mandatory point, then it is a worthless point, as there are many other points of reason why people depart the faith, like not being saved to begin with or disagreements of conscience with points of doctrines, etc.
And I'd ask the same question to those who hold the first underlined point:
IS it mandatory to believe you absolutely are forever saved in order to be saved?
Since this particular friction seems to permeate the majority of conversations I'd like to see a weigh in of how many believers are "forced" into (potential) condemnation of other believers over their sights of how mandatory their particular stance is.
I personally think the scriptures give space for all 3 sights, and am not interested whatsoever in entering into condemnation of other believers over the matters. If they are weak or strong or in between wouldn't really matter to me UNLESS any particular sects "hard line doctrine" made it mandatory to enter into CONDEMNATION. There, I'd have to draw a line of departure.
Romans 14:1
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
I might add, in light of the above, that the underlined points of observation 2 and 3 above makes "doubt" mandatory. And I reject any forms of disputations that promote doubt. If I have to doubt, I prefer to not. I don't doubt Jesus' Abilities to save every believer, whether they themselves believe this or not. And I hold this to keep myself out of condemnation to other believers and out of doubt of our Savior. It's a point of conscience for me. IF I enter into condemnation, then I HAVE NOT LISTENED AND APPLIED TO JESUS OWN WORDS, HERE:
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
I might even say that those who are fully persuaded into doubt, have perhaps doubted themselves out of the equations of faith, and proved themselves doubters. Not that I would condemn them, as it would be a "personal problem" in the mind of such holders.
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GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Smaller,
Didn't even finish reading.
It ISN'T MANDATORY to believe anything to be saved.
All that is mandatory is to believe that Jesus will save us - not any doctrine.
And to do what He said to do.
Very simple.
Everything else is embellishment.
Wondering
smaller
Member
Hmmm? I doubt that anyone here holds that view.
Then THAT contradicts your first observation. I might call that an unfortunate exercise in reasoning power and an engagement in pointless circular reasoning.
The reality of "christianity" is that there are the 3 talking points I referenced. I have engaged and sat under them all, personally. And have been "required" to enter into condemnation of other believers by all three positions. Which for me is a violation of conscience, as duly noted. That's why I ask anyone sitting under any of the 3 talking points IF condemnation to other believers is MANDATORY. In most sects condemnation IS mandatory.
The basis of the latter 2 positions makes DOUBT mandatory as well, so it's a double whammy. You must DOUBT your faith and enter into CONDEMNATION in order to be saved. Which to me, personally, is absurd to claim as "Christianity."
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.