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Is it Possible for a True Christian to lose their Salvation.

JLB said:
No scripture again?
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Because you can't remember all the Scripture I have posted about the same subject over and over?

My point is you need to post scriptures, as I'm not discussing your opinion.
JLB
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This statement only shows that you either aren't reading my posts or are just being snippy.

This is what I posted:
"Thank you for totally ignoring my point. There is no reason for further discussion, since you are unwilling to examine my point at all.

My point is about those who BECOME children of God through faith in Christ. I asked for any verses that show that any angels become sons of God through faith in Christ.

And you can't do that. So discussion is over. You're just not willing to accept those who become sons of God through faith and you keep bringing up created angels as sons of God. Totally irrelevant. Apples and oranges."

Now, you know that I have already quoted Jn 1:12 and Gal 3:26 many times. I do expect those who discuss with me can at least follow the discussion and remember the verses that I HAVE quoted repeatedly. But maybe you do need the constant memory refreshment.

And, instead of answering my question, you deflected with the untruthful comment about not posting Scripture.

So, where are the verses about angels who BECOME sons of God through faith in Christ?

If you can't find any, at least have the integrity to admit it. If you won't do that, you then already HAVE admitted what you don't have: verses that show angels becoming sons of God through faith in Christ, or integrity.
 
Reminder: Posting supportive Scripture is requested and recommended from the Forum Guidelines.
 
WIP said:
Reminder: Posting supportive Scripture is requested and recommended from the Forum Guidelines.
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To clarify, is citing the reference enough, or should one quote the entire verse? I ask because when I cite a reference, and then put the mouse over the verse, the site provides the actual verse.

Thanks.
 
The spirit of the guideline is for us to focus on the Scripture and not our own opinions. So if I make a claim or statement about something that I believe to be an point for the discussion I should be able to show the Scripture that I derive my view from. Here are a couple examples.

We aught to be a little nicer toward each other. 1 Peter 3:15

We aught to be a little nicer toward each other.
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear" 1 Peter 3:15 NKJV

If it is necessary to discuss this further please use the TWTS forum. Thank you.
 
JLB said:
Continued from the other thread about Romans 7:

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:12-15


James plainly says when we have been approved, we will receive the crown of Life.

However in this life we must learn to avoid, and endure temptation, that leads to sin.

... and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Apostasy is not the topic here in James warning, but sin. Not just a mistake here and there, but sin that is neglected to the point it becomes full grown, and ends up bringing death to the Christian who is drawn away by their desires.

JLB
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There is a race to be run, but not for salvation. It is to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Point of truth; the loss of reward of crowns is not the only consequence; the other is castaway.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Point of truth: those that do not depart from iniquity will be received as vessel unto dishonor in His House. Since obviously, the castaways are those that did not depart from iniquity, yet they are still saved.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

The castaways are those cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation as they will be killed with death. This ties in with your OP as the wages of sin is physical death. These be they that are Christ's at His coming as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation which is after Satan and the world's armies have been defeated. That means they will not be meeting the Lord in the air when He has set down on earth already to defeat Satan and the world's armies as the coming King of kings.

Salvation is not lost, but missing out of being of the firstfruits of the resurrection at the pre trib rapture is.
 
ChristDependent said:
There is a race to be run, but not for salvation. It is to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
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1 Corinthians 9:22-27 teaches us the race to be run that Paul refers to, is indeed about salvation.

...I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:22-27

Disqualified is clear language, in that it teaches us what Paul is conveying so clearly, as in all his letters; warning us about the flesh and the works thereof, in that we would remain, by the means of "fighting" to keep the sinful nature of our flesh subdued and remain in a position of dominion over the sin within our flesh by means of the power and authority of the Holy Spirit within us.


Disqualified, castaway; reprobate

  1. not standing the test, not approved
    1. properly used of metals and coins
  2. that which does not prove itself such as it ought
    1. unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

Here Paul portrays the one who understands there is a fight and a struggle to keep the body disciplined and under subjection: so as not to become a slave again to sin that dwells within our flesh, desiring to express itself through it's sinful deeds.

Paul understands and believes, and therefore exercises his belief, as those who take the things that we have been given, necessary for [eternal] life and godliness, and exercises the power of the Holy Spirit to "put to death" or "crucify" the lustful deeds of the flesh.

Peter explains:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:2-11


One of the key fruits of the Spirit is self control.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.


Disciplining and controlling the lustful appetites of the flesh is the mark of those who walk according to the Spirit, that is to say; those who exercise their God given dominion over sin dwelling within our flesh.

The Christian who believes, understands and does these things, show the work of one who id diligently adding to their faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge...


Virtue is moral purity.



JLB
 
ChristDependent said:
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Point of truth: those that do not depart from iniquity will be received as vessel unto dishonor in His House. Since obviously, the castaways are those that did not depart from iniquity, yet they are still saved.
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16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:20-26


  • Christians who stray from the truth so that there are teachers of Heresy, and are overthrowing the faith of other Christians by their heretical teachings have returned to being sinners, and are in need of repentance, or be lost just like any other sinner.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20



JLB
 
JLB said:
1 Corinthians 9:22-27 teaches us the race to be run that Paul refers to, is indeed about salvation.
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Why, then, did Paul also teach that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable, after teaching that eternal life is a gift of God? His clear point is that eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable.

Therefore, how could he think that he might not end up saved in 1 Cor 9:22-27??

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:22-27

Disqualified is clear language, in that it teaches us what Paul is conveying so clearly, as in all his letters; warning us about the flesh and the works thereof, in that we would remain, by the means of "fighting" to keep the sinful nature of our flesh subdued and remain in a position of dominion over the sin within our flesh by means of the power and authority of the Holy Spirit within us.
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None of which refers to loss of salvation. Rather, loss of reward; or as Paul phrased it, disqualified for reward.

Disqualified, castaway; reprobate

  1. not standing the test, not approved
    1. properly used of metals and coins
  2. that which does not prove itself such as it ought
    1. unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate
Click to expand...
    Correct. Not approved for reward. He was the Holy Spirit inspired writer who wrote 1 Cor 3:14 and 15:
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

v.15 is directly related to v.14, which is about receiving a reward for any man's WORK. His point: if anyone's WORK remains, he will be rewarded. But, as v.15 clearly states, if anyone's WORK burns up, the person WILL SUFFER LOSS. So, what is the loss? Loss of reward, obviously. Cannot be a reference to loss of salvation for this reason: Paul followed that statement up with the following:
but he himself WILL BE SAVED, yet so as through fire.

Here Paul portrays the one who understands there is a fight and a struggle to keep the body disciplined and under subjection: so as not to become a slave again to sin that dwells within our flesh, desiring to express itself through it's sinful deeds.
Click to expand...
Correct.

Paul understands and believes, and therefore exercises his belief, as those who take the things that we have been given, necessary for [eternal] life and godliness, and exercises the power of the Holy Spirit to "put to death" or "crucify" the lustful deeds of the flesh.
Click to expand...
Nothing here about loss of salvation.

Peter explains:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
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The phrase "to life and godliness" is a direct reference to the sanctification process that goes on in this life, so it cannot refer to "eternal life", which is given WHEN one believes, according to Jesus Christ in John 5:24.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Click to expand...

When these character traits are added to one's faith, they grow up spiritually, to maturity, the goal of progressive sanctification.
 
JLB said:
16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:20-26

JLB, let's get with it.
If you are really saved, you cannot lose your salvation.
Come at me with all the "what ifs" you want, don't matter.
If you are truly saved, you don't lose your salvation.
End of story, beginning of life.
Amen!
  • Christians who stray from the truth so that there are teachers of Heresy, and are overthrowing the faith of other Christians by their heretical teachings have returned to being sinners, and are in need of repentance, or be lost just like any other sinner.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20



JLB
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JLB, let's get with it.
If you are really saved, you cannot lose your salvation.
Come at me with all the "what ifs" you want, don't matter.
If you are truly saved, you don't lose your salvation.
End of story, beginning of life.
Amen!
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
JLB, let's get with it.
If you are really saved, you cannot lose your salvation.
Come at me with all the "what ifs" you want, don't matter.
If you are truly saved, you don't lose your salvation.
End of story, beginning of life.
Amen!
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"if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life" (Revelation 22:19 NASB)

And yet so many claim one can not have eternal life taken away.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I fully expect to do that. :idea
Church of God (headquartered in Anderson, IN). Freedom of doctrinal beliefs is a fundamental tenant of theirs. Even YOU would be welcome there. :lol
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I still attend the Church of the Enlightened Path.
Tomorrow is cupcake Sunday.
After the service we all have cupcakes as we discuss the sermon.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
JLB, let's get with it.
If you are really saved, you cannot lose your salvation.
Come at me with all the "what ifs" you want, don't matter.
If you are truly saved, you don't lose your salvation.
End of story, beginning of life.
Amen!
Click to expand...

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19
 
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