Is it Really So Easy?

[evenifigoalone]

I believe salvation is instant, once we accept it. It was always explained to me that with salvation comes a desire to please God.
Based on Scripture, works and grace go hand in hand (Romans 11:6)--we are saved by grace and faith, not through works (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, works is evidence of salvation (James 2:17, 18, 20).

 

[farouk]

I believe salvation is instant, once we accept it. It was always explained to me that with salvation comes a desire to please God.
Based on Scripture, works and grace go hand in hand (Romans 11:6)--we are saved by grace and faith, not through works (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, works is evidence of salvation (James 2:17, 18, 20).

The Romans 11.6 verse is very important. Simply stated, it asks, What are we depending on?

Any idea that one's salvation is a gradual process whereby, if we try hard enough, might 'get there in the end', is really a works-based religion and not Biblical. Ephesians 2.9 is perfectly clear on this.

 

[Deborah13]

Claiming to be

Nope, "claiming to be" does not make it so. But I don't think that is what Edward is talking about as he obviously, sincerely believes and has faith in the Gospel.
These are the people he is talking about, not the "claimers".

 

[Doulos Iesou]

The Romans 11.6 verse is very important. Simply stated, it asks, What are we depending on?

Any idea that one's salvation is a gradual process whereby, if we try hard enough, might 'get there in the end', is really a works-based religion and not Biblical. Ephesians 2.9 is perfectly clear on this.

Grace that just simply covers the debt and doesn't EMPOWER the believer to walk in newness of life and righteousness is not grace at all.

Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7(ESV)

Those who claim to be righteous, yet don't practice it are not actually righteous according to Scripture.

When salvation is reduced down to a one time transaction, rather than understanding it as 1) the event when the person believes, repents and confesses Jesus as Lord, and 2) them enduring to the end to be raised on the last day to receive the affirmative judgement. Salvation is primarily in Scripture a hope for a future event, and yet at the same time something that is enjoyed in the present. That is way the word "saved" appears in every single Greek tense in the NT.

There is no salvation for those who do not endure to the end, and for those who do not do the will of the Father.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21(ESV)

 

[Atonement]

Greetings to you all on this Blessed day

To those that want to ramble on about theologies - please ignore my post. But to those who came here looking for an answer because you question your faith or want to know the way of Salvation. Please read these Scriptures. Our Father in Heaven will not withhold His Mercy and Grace from you.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,


Romans 3:22-23 The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him

If you have come here and either you're a new born again Christian, or you question your faith, or perhaps thought about becoming a Christian - please send me a PM. PLEASE do not get caught up in the different theologies and suggested theories. The final authority is found in the Scriptures and we need to adhere to it's beautiful message about the love our Father has for each of us through the Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross. This is just the beginning as this thread has suggested in it's opening, but there are some things that you need to know and follow in your Christian walk that are just as important as these Scriptures quoted. If you have more questions, I would love to talk with you privately

God Bless

 

[farouk]

The Romans 11.6 verse is very important. Simply stated, it asks, What are we depending on?

Any idea that one's salvation is a gradual process whereby, if we try hard enough, might 'get there in the end', is really a works-based religion and not Biblical. Ephesians 2.9 is perfectly clear on this.

Grace that just simply covers the debt and doesn't EMPOWER the believer to walk in newness of life and righteousness is not grace at all.

Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7(ESV)

Those who claim to be righteous, yet don't practice it are not actually righteous according to Scripture.

When salvation is reduced down to a one time transaction, rather than understanding it as 1) the event when the person believes, repents and confesses Jesus as Lord, and 2) them enduring to the end to be raised on the last day to receive the affirmative judgement. Salvation is primarily in Scripture a hope for a future event, and yet at the same time something that is enjoyed in the present. That is way the word "saved" appears in every single Greek tense in the NT.

There is no salvation for those who do not endure to the end, and for those who do not do the will of the Father.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21(ESV)

It is a characteristic of those who believe to endure, but when the believer obeys and follows the Lord Jesus it is not on the basis of human merit; rather, it is all of grace.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Greetings to you all on this Blessed day

To those that want to ramble on about theologies - please ignore my post. But to those who came here looking for an answer because you question your faith or want to know the way of Salvation. Please read these Scriptures. Our Father in Heaven will not withhold His Mercy and Grace from you.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,


Romans 3:22-23 The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him

If you have come here and either you're a new born again Christian, or you question your faith, or perhaps thought about becoming a Christian - please send me a PM. PLEASE do not get caught up in the different theologies and suggested theories. The final authority is found in the Scriptures and we need to adhere to it's beautiful message about the love our Father has for each of us through the Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross. This is just the beginning as this thread as suggested, but there are some things that you need to know and follow in your Christian walk that are just as important as these Scriptures quoted. If you have more questions, I would love to talk with you privately

God Bless

Thank you.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

It is a characteristic of those who believe to endure, but when the believer obeys and follows the Lord Jesus it is not on the basis of human merit; rather, it is all of grace.

This is a dangerous view, as it makes sanctification monergistic (one way, all God) when clearly the Christian is told not to grieve the Spirit, and not to quench the Spirit. Surely, we can do nothing if we do not abide in Christ, or without the Spirit of grace to empower us to good works, but that does not mean that every little bit is from God. Everything good that comes from the believer could not have been done without the Spirit, but the believer is able to resist the Spirit's work in him to his own dismay and loss.

Fight the good fight of FAITH, as Paul admonished Timothy to do.

 

[farouk]

It is a characteristic of those who believe to endure, but when the believer obeys and follows the Lord Jesus it is not on the basis of human merit; rather, it is all of grace.

This is a dangerous view, as it makes sanctification monergistic (one way, all God) when clearly the Christian is told not to grieve the Spirit, and not to quench the Spirit. Surely, we can do nothing if we do not abide in Christ, or without the Spirit of grace to empower us to good works, but that does not mean that every little bit is from God. Everything good that comes from the believer could not have been done without the Spirit, but the believer is able to resist the Spirit's work in him to his own dismay and loss.

Fight the good fight of FAITH, as Paul admonished Timothy to do.

Well, grace and meritorious works are an explosive combination, frankly.

Yes, we must be filled with the Spirit. Yes, we must abide in the vine.

But human merit has nothing to do with the believer's salvation.

Ephesians 2.8-10 has a balanced presentation of the various aspects.

 

[Deborah13]

But is it instantaneous, or a renewing of the heart is needed first before one's name can written into the book of life?

If there had to be a total renewing of one's mind before they were saved, this would say that there was no need for the cross and Jesus blood to be shed.

"anyone who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple."

So how many people do you know who have done this from the moment they received Jesus in actions as well as in their hearts?
If they did they would no longer sin in thought, word, or deed, correct? And the whole discussion of sanctification, in the Bible, is unnecessary?

So as the apostles (disciples) who were sometimes messing up, like Peter and others from fear or lack of faith, they weren't really His disciples?

Speaking of Peter.. was it when Peter denied Jesus the same time that Jesus had told Peter that satan had asked permission to sift Peter? And God allowed it (don't make some doctrine out of this instance, please). Peter failed and sinned but out of that he learned a lesson.

Some people's lessons are more extreme than others. What of King David? Did he lose his position with God because of two of the biggest sins? I say, no. Why? Because the Lord knew David's heart. ( God said David was a man after His own heart.) God looks into the depth of the heart of man not just at the actions of man.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I believe salvation is instant, once we accept it. It was always explained to me that with salvation comes a desire to please God.
Based on Scripture, works and grace go hand in hand (Romans 11:6)--we are saved by grace and faith, not through works (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, works is evidence of salvation (James 2:17, 18, 20).

The Romans 11.6 verse is very important. Simply stated, it asks, What are we depending on?

Any idea that one's salvation is a gradual process whereby, if we try hard enough, might 'get there in the end', is really a works-based religion and not Biblical. Ephesians 2.9 is perfectly clear on this.

We agree.

I do not wish to get into a debate with anyone (and I won't , simply because this is an area in which my faith is fragile and has been the cause of much doubt and confusion for me), but the Bible tells me that salvation, being able to go to heaven, is accomplished by God. Not through anything I've done. But, as someone pointed out a long time ago, just going to heaven isn't enough. I wouldn't want to stand in heaven having done nothing at all for God. I would be ashamed.

 

[gr8grace]

Matt 7:21~~"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40~~"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

 

[evenifigoalone]

I believe salvation is instant, once we accept it. It was always explained to me that with salvation comes a desire to please God.
Based on Scripture, works and grace go hand in hand (Romans 11:6)--we are saved by grace and faith, not through works (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, works is evidence of salvation (James 2:17, 18, 20).

The Romans 11.6 verse is very important. Simply stated, it asks, What are we depending on?

Any idea that one's salvation is a gradual process whereby, if we try hard enough, might 'get there in the end', is really a works-based religion and not Biblical. Ephesians 2.9 is perfectly clear on this.

We agree.

I do not wish to get into a debate with anyone (and I won't , simply because this is an area in which my faith is fragile and has been the cause of much doubt and confusion for me), but the Bible tells me that salvation, being able to go to heaven, is accomplished by God. Not through anything I've done. But, as someone pointed out a long time ago, just going to heaven isn't enough. I wouldn't want to stand in heaven having done nothing at all for God. I would be ashamed.

P.S.
A book by Deitrich Bonheifer talks about this. I forget the name of the book, but it was a devotional, I think. I read it for school last term.
Bonheifer points out that is neither all grace, nor all works. Separated, one extreme excuses us from doing anything for others or for God, and the other leaves God out of the picture entirely. They both go together.

 

[farouk]

I believe salvation is instant, once we accept it. It was always explained to me that with salvation comes a desire to please God.
Based on Scripture, works and grace go hand in hand (Romans 11:6)--we are saved by grace and faith, not through works (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, works is evidence of salvation (James 2:17, 18, 20).

The Romans 11.6 verse is very important. Simply stated, it asks, What are we depending on?

Any idea that one's salvation is a gradual process whereby, if we try hard enough, might 'get there in the end', is really a works-based religion and not Biblical. Ephesians 2.9 is perfectly clear on this.

We agree.

I do not wish to get into a debate with anyone (and I won't , simply because this is an area in which my faith is fragile and has been the cause of much doubt and confusion for me), but the Bible tells me that salvation, being able to go to heaven, is accomplished by God. Not through anything I've done. But, as someone pointed out a long time ago, just going to heaven isn't enough. I wouldn't want to stand in heaven having done nothing at all for God. I would be ashamed.

P.S.
A book by Deitrich Bonheifer talks about this. I forget the name of the book, but it was a devotional, I think. I read it for school last term.
Bonheifer points out that is neither all grace, nor all works. Separated, one extreme excuses us from doing anything for others or for God, and the other leaves God out of the picture entirely. They both go together.

I think with Bonhoeffer, though, we need to be careful to distinguish between talking about the generally 'religious' person's relationship with the world, and the born again believer's relationship with the Savior. It's sometimes easy to get into a sense of the individual's duty, heroic or otherwise, in relation to the world, while glossing over the central matter of the repentant sinner's relationship with God through faith in the sin atoning work of the Lord Jesus at the Cross.

Blessings.

 

[gr8grace]

It is a characteristic of those who believe to endure, but when the believer obeys and follows the Lord Jesus it is not on the basis of human merit; rather, it is all of grace.

This is a dangerous view, as it makes sanctification monergistic (one way, all God) when clearly the Christian is told not to grieve the Spirit, and not to quench the Spirit. Surely, we can do nothing if we do not abide in Christ, or without the Spirit of grace to empower us to good works, but that does not mean that every little bit is from God. Everything good that comes from the believer could not have been done without the Spirit, but the believer is able to resist the Spirit's work in him to his own dismay and loss.

Fight the good fight of FAITH, as Paul admonished Timothy to do.

Well, grace and meritorious works are an explosive combination, frankly.

Yes, we must be filled with the Spirit. Yes, we must abide in the vine.

But human merit has nothing to do with the believer's salvation.

Ephesians 2.8-10 has a balanced presentation of the various aspects.

I agree. At the moment we believe we are Justified,Sanctified,righteous. Our position in Christ, As the father sees us. It will never change.

He is King of kings and Lord of lords.....This life is to figure out the position we will have with our King. A king or a lord And other positions. It depends on our choice to listen and act or live the way we want. Heaven bound none the less though.

 

[Deborah13]

But, as someone pointed out a long time ago, just going to heaven isn't enough. I wouldn't want to stand in heaven having done nothing at all for God. I would be ashamed.

I can't not remember the scripture right now, hopefully someone else can but what you just said is just what the apostle Paul was saying about himself and running the race.

Great point.

 

[farouk]

But, as someone pointed out a long time ago, just going to heaven isn't enough. I wouldn't want to stand in heaven having done nothing at all for God. I would be ashamed.

I can't not remember the scripture right now, hopefully someone else can but what you just said is just what the apostle Paul was saying about himself and running the race.

Great point.

Philippians 3.13

 

[gr8grace]

Greetings to you all on this Blessed day

To those that want to ramble on about theologies - please ignore my post. But to those who came here looking for an answer because you question your faith or want to know the way of Salvation. Please read these Scriptures. Our Father in Heaven will not withhold His Mercy and Grace from you.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,


Romans 3:22-23 The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him

If you have come here and either you're a new born again Christian, or you question your faith, or perhaps thought about becoming a Christian - please send me a PM. PLEASE do not get caught up in the different theologies and suggested theories. The final authority is found in the Scriptures and we need to adhere to it's beautiful message about the love our Father has for each of us through the Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross. This is just the beginning as this thread has suggested in it's opening, but there are some things that you need to know and follow in your Christian walk that are just as important as these Scriptures quoted. If you have more questions, I would love to talk with you privately

God Bless

This would be very worthy to post every ten posts or so!

 

[Deborah13]

Bonheifer points out that is neither all grace, nor all works. Separated, one extreme excuses us from doing anything for others or for God, and the other leaves God out of the picture entirely. They both go together.

IMO, Bonheifer got his signals crossed. By Eph 2:8-9 it is by grace and faith, not grace and works. So I would say it this way, that it is not by grace alone or by faith alone, but by a good balance of grace and faith.

 

[Deborah13]

But, as someone pointed out a long time ago, just going to heaven isn't enough. I wouldn't want to stand in heaven having done nothing at all for God. I would be ashamed.

I can't not remember the scripture right now, hopefully someone else can but what you just said is just what the apostle Paul was saying about himself and running the race.

Great point.

Philippians 3.13

Thanks farouk, that is the one.