Is Jehovah's Witness a Christian belief?

[seekandlisten]

And you are too blind to actually want anything from this dialogue other then your own self gratification.

You are free to your opinion. I am free to mine. Whenever I get a chance I will do all I can to expose the falsehoods of Mormonism.

Go ahead, deter a whole other faith from seeing the light of God shine in us. By the way I'm not a mormon, yet another of your assumptions.

 

[jasoncran]

because they arent, they use that tactic alot to draw others in. those that are that faithful usually wont go to a christendom church. i was raised in the kingdom hall, though my family wasnt all that faithful.

 

[RND]

Go ahead, deter a whole other faith from seeing the light of God shine in us.

I'm not denying anything to anybody. The same truth I have been given is the same truth available to all. Some don't want it and others are all too willing to accept false doctrine.

By the way I'm not a mormon, yet another of your assumptions.

Then why do you defend them so? What are you? JW? Christadelphian?

 

[toddm]

The Jesus I know does not contradict scripture but lets keep that for another topic. This one is whether or not JW is a 'christian' belief. Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, JW's, etc. would all fall under the religion of 'christianity'. Whether their beliefs differ or not doesn't matter.

Short and sweet answer. I like it. :yes

So, then truth is relative? It makes so much sense that a Jesus who is God, Jesus who is a created being/brother of Lucifer, and Jesus who is a lesser god than the Father are obviously ALL the SAME person. Every person I know named John then must all be the same person. Hey, while we're at it..let's say that Jesus wasn't really Jewish, that he really wasn't born of a virgin, that he really didn't resurrect from the tomb, and that he didn't really do any of the miracles he claimed to do. We can believe all that and it's still the same Jesus, right?? If the Jesus YOU KNOW isn't God then he's contradicting Scripture. Period.

 

[toddm]

And you are too blind to actually want anything from this dialogue other then your own self gratification.

You are free to your opinion. I am free to mine. Whenever I get a chance I will do all I can to expose the falsehoods of Mormonism.

Allowing Mormons, JWs, and other "Christian cult" to continue in their falsehood is the same as telling them "I'm fine w/ you going to hell"

 

[jasoncran]

update i asked two jw's one still cant give blood or be in the military, but one can be a cop, though one cant preach the word and so on.

 

[seekandlisten]

The Jesus I know does not contradict scripture but lets keep that for another topic. This one is whether or not JW is a 'christian' belief. Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, JW's, etc. would all fall under the religion of 'christianity'. Whether their beliefs differ or not doesn't matter.

Short and sweet answer. I like it. :yes

So, then truth is relative? It makes so much sense that a Jesus who is God, Jesus who is a created being/brother of Lucifer, and Jesus who is a lesser god than the Father are obviously ALL the SAME person. Every person I know named John then must all be the same person. Hey, while we're at it..let's say that Jesus wasn't really Jewish, that he really wasn't born of a virgin, that he really didn't resurrect from the tomb, and that he didn't really do any of the miracles he claimed to do. We can believe all that and it's still the same Jesus, right?? If the Jesus YOU KNOW isn't God then he's contradicting Scripture. Period.

Todd, I'm not saying that JW's beliefs are right. I don't agree with JW's beliefs at all. The topic of the thread, however, was are JW's a 'Christian' belief? The question isn't are JW's a 'Protestant' belief or a 'Catholic' belief, do you see the difference? Christianity is the religion, there are many subdivisions under this heading. I gave a definition of a 'christian' earlier in this thread which, unless you point out otherwise, I think would make JW's a subdivision under 'Christianity'. The only argument has been on beliefs so far which has nothing to do with the definition of 'christian'. Beliefs would define you as a 'Protestant', 'Catholic', 'East Orthodox', etc. If you want to argue against my earlier definition provide a definition of 'christian' that states differently plain and simple. Or show how the definition given is not correct.

 

[seekandlisten]

And you are too blind to actually want anything from this dialogue other then your own self gratification.

You are free to your opinion. I am free to mine. Whenever I get a chance I will do all I can to expose the falsehoods of Mormonism.

Allowing Mormons, JWs, and other "Christian cult" to continue in their falsehood is the same as telling them "I'm fine w/ you going to hell"

Do you have the power to change one's heart? So there is nothing you can do 'physically' that is going to 'save' someone. You can share your beliefs, but I would try being a little more friendly rather than referring to them as a 'cult' otherwise they probably won't pay much attention to you. Jesus never taught to point out everyone's faults. 'Remove the plank first', mind you this point is usually missed seeing as you can never 'remove the plank' from your own eye as we are all sinners therefore we don't have the right to judge.

Anyways, I'm not going to defend JW's or Mormons beliefs as I don't believe in either. I will not however degrade their beliefs as nothing good will come from it especially in a thread that is not about beliefs.

 

[Slyvena]

Wow so much back and forth over a few simple issues.

Look the overwhelming theme is that is being argued about Jesus is whether believing in his existence and believing in his existence aswell as everything else that is said about him in scripture is just still believing in him.

The difference being argued is the degree of belief, if you don't believe some things about a person than do you believe in a different person to the one that believes in everything? I'll leave that to each persons decision.

Another one I saw was about the nature of proving the existence of God and how that relates to faith. Meh, I used to need faith to believe in God but my observation of the gifts of the spirit and the healing/prophecy he has made me a part of mean I don't need that anymore, I simply know he exists. Moreover there is physical science to back him up. Faith is still in place, not as to the nature but the extent of God, I must always go out on a limb when prophecying or healing, I must always have faith, so it shall remain that way until the day I die.

The last was of whether or not Mormons and JW come under the Christian banner... no. There beliefs are simply too different. I'm sorry but its just that simple, at some point you just have to look at a belief system and recognise that it has differentiated too broadly from its origins. Where do we draw the line between something being Christian and Not Christian? I don't know, but its far further back that JW or Mormons that much I will say, until I find a belief system that is somewhere in the grey area, then that definition will suffice for now. You don't have to worry about where you draw the line if something has clearly gone far beyond the entire area where that line could be.

So no, I don't think JW or Mormons are Christian, they are nice and close, they are good people. But I will not defile my religion by including such blasphemy within its definition. Does make it easier to convert them cause they are already nice and close to the truth anyway though.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

Wow so much back and forth over a few simple issues.

Look the overwhelming theme is that is being argued about Jesus is whether believing in his existence and believing in his existence aswell as everything else that is said about him in scripture is just still believing in him.

The difference being argued is the degree of belief, if you don't believe some things about a person than do you believe in a different person to the one that believes in everything? I'll leave that to each persons decision.

According to that description, JW-s ARE Christians.

Another one I saw was about the nature of proving the existence of God and how that relates to faith. Meh, I used to need faith to believe in God but my observation of the gifts of the spirit and the healing/prophecy he has made me a part of mean I don't need that anymore, I simply know he exists. Moreover there is physical science to back him up. Faith is still in place, not as to the nature but the extent of God, I must always go out on a limb when prophecying or healing, I must always have faith, so it shall remain that way until the day I die.

There is absolutely no physical science to back him up. Also, this is off topic issue.

The last was of whether or not Mormons and JW come under the Christian banner... no. There beliefs are simply too different. I'm sorry but its just that simple, at some point you just have to look at a belief system and recognise that it has differentiated too broadly from its origins. Where do we draw the line between something being Christian and Not Christian? I don't know, but its far further back that JW or Mormons that much I will say, until I find a belief system that is somewhere in the grey area, then that definition will suffice for now. You don't have to worry about where you draw the line if something has clearly gone far beyond the entire area where that line could be.

Yes, I do think that a line has to be drawn so you can explain why JW-s are not considered being Christians. Otherwise, it's all just "gray area" including your view.

So no, I don't think JW or Mormons are Christian, they are nice and close, they are good people. But I will not defile my religion by including such blasphemy within its definition. Does make it easier to convert them cause they are already nice and close to the truth anyway though.

Why would you want to convert somebody who already believes in the same God as you do?

 

[jasoncran]

once, approved and i can acquire the appropriate rescources i will dig deep into the jw' doctrine and show that isnt a christian religion but an cult like the mormons, similarties to the parent , but definitely not one in the fold.

for instance, the concept of salvation IS NOT IN THE JW DOCTRINE , NOR IS HELL OR HEAVEN AS A PLACE FOR ALL OF THE FAITHFULL, ONLY THE 144,000 CHOSEN WILL GO TO HEAVEN AND REMAIN THERE AND CORULE WITH CHRIST. AND ONLY THOSE MAY PARTAKE IN THE COMMUNION.

 

[Nick]

Well said Jason and RND.

To all: I suggest you listen to Jason closely as he is a former JW.

Reminder that this thread is about JW's not Mormons.

I am currently reading a book on religions and cults of the world. JW and Mormon are not filed under the Christian chapter, instead they have their own. When I finish reading it I"ll post on the fact that JW's ARE NOT Christians.

To reject the diety of Jesus Christ and to reject the Trinity and to consider another book as greater or equal weight than the Bible is to reject Christianity and salvation, plain and simple, and JW's do this.

 

[jasoncran]

i spent a few minutes to jw's both know that i used to be one, one is fellow employee with city that i work for, and he's knows many of the families that i used to talk when i was at the kingdom hall yrs ago, as my sister is still one.

the other one is a guard at piper aircraft, and he even asked me when am i going to return to the "truth" as that is what they call themselves, not jw's soo much but the"truth".

this doctrine of the jw's is powerful in that in can suck one in, if you are not grounded in truth. and they are masters of arguing you into their way of thought.

i have to be very careful when i talk to them, even after yrs of freedom its difficult, i didn't start reading the book of john when i got saved, i had to read Genesis,for the Lord told me that i had to be retaught by him what is the truth.

 

[jasoncran]

btw thanks, nick

 

[RND]

Do you have the power to change one's heart?

Nope. But I do have a voice and a responsibility to teach the truth about the word of God.

So there is nothing you can do 'physically' that is going to 'save' someone.

Not my job - I'm a seed sower, not a harvester.

You can share your beliefs, but I would try being a little more friendly rather than referring to them as a 'cult' otherwise they probably won't pay much attention to you. Jesus never taught to point out everyone's faults. 'Remove the plank first', mind you this point is usually missed seeing as you can never 'remove the plank' from your own eye as we are all sinners therefore we don't have the right to judge.

We are all sinners, no doubt. That still doesn't remove the responsisbility to publish the truth.

Jud 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Anyways, I'm not going to defend JW's or Mormons beliefs as I don't believe in either. I will not however degrade their beliefs as nothing good will come from it especially in a thread that is not about beliefs.

The topic was broached and not by me.

 

[Nick]

seekandlisten: this thread IS about beliefs. It is about JW beliefs aligning with Christian beliefs (or not)

 

[Slyvena]

According to that description, JW-s ARE Christians.

That is your opinion, I did not say whether I agreed with either proposition but I will say that I think rejecting sections of what is said about a person does make the one you believe in a different person, hence although you believe IN and person he is not THE person that others do.

If you don't agree with this than yes, they do. But since I do agree, I don't think they do.

There is absolutely no physical science to back him up. Also, this is off topic issue.

Well its a shame that you think that, I've converted people through science supporting Christianity, anyway it was in response to an early post, I'll let it drop.

Yes, I do think that a line has to be drawn so you can explain why JW-s are not considered being Christians. Otherwise, it's all just "gray area" including your view.

well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one since I don't see either of us swaying the other.

Why would you want to convert somebody who already believes in the same God as you do?

Because they don't, they believe in a person who bears similarity too in some ways to the one I believe in but is completely incompatible in other ways. Here we reach the difference in our opinions, if they do not believe all things about Christ than they do not truly believe in him at all. Thats what my first point was getting at, you can't pick and choose what aspects of Christ you will believe in.

 

[Nick]

Why would you want to convert somebody who already believes in the same God as you do?

Because they don't, they believe in a person who bears similarity too in some ways to the one I believe in but is completely incompatible in other ways. Here we reach the difference in our opinions, if they do not believe all things about Christ than they do not truly believe in him at all. Thats what my first point was getting at, you can't pick and choose what aspects of Christ you will believe in.

 

[Carpathian]

I don't know much about the theology of Jehova's witness besides the fact that Jesus does not play the same role as He should. Educate me someone I dont want to read through every post.

 

[jasoncran]

in short, carpethian, jesus is an archangel,ie micheal, not the Son of God that we know, they ,the jw's call him that, but where in the bible is micheal the archangel worshipped like christ was.