Is Jesus Christ a created being (Begotten Son) or has He always existed alongside God the Father (Eternal Son)?

[Free]

John's use of "the Word" in John 1:1 is representing God's self-expression and creative power. The "Word" (Greek: Logos) is God's divine plan and purpose (The Incarnation existed in the mind of God before the world began. Indeed, in the mind of God the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (I Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 13:8).), fully expressed in creation and ultimately in the incarnation. When John ties the "Word" to creation, he emphasizes that the same God who spoke the world into existence is the one who was made manifest in the flesh as Jesus Christ (John 1:14).

John 1:3 and 1:10 affirm that all things were made through this divine Word, not as an independent agent but as the direct expression of God's will. In The Son is not an eternal, pre-existent person separate from the Father. Rather, the Son refers to the incarnation—God (the self Expressive Word) manifesting Himself in human form as Son of God. The Sonship began at the incarnation, when the Word became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. This means that the Son is God’s redemptive plan realized in time, not a distinct and eternal person. The fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ (Colossians 2:9), revealing that the same God who created all things is the one who walked among us as Jesus, uniting divinity and humanity to reconcile the world to Himself. This understanding highlights the singularity of God's nature and His direct involvement in the redemption of mankind as Jesus Christ.

There are some significant difficulties with such an interpretation of John 1:1.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ESV)

Looking at the first clause, "In the beginning" is clearly a reference to Gen 1:1. The word "was" is the Greek, en, which is a form of eimi (I Am), and speaks of continuous action in the past; that is, absolute preexistence before any creation. What that means is that when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence, and hence, there was never a time when the Word did not exist. The very same applies to the Father, who has absolute preexistence.

In the second clause, "and the Word was with God," it is the Greek pros that is translated as "with." But it isn't merely speaking of being together or near. It is in the accusative and expresses “direction towards,” as in relationship and communion, implying intimacy. It is important to note here that in the Greek the article is present, so it literally reads, "the Word was with [the] God." So, God is a reference to someone other than the Word, at a minimum it is a reference to the Father.

When it comes to the last clause, "the Word was God," it is significant that "God" doesn't have the article in the Greek, as it did in the preceding clause. If the article had been present then "Word" and "God" become interchangeable— they would be one and the same—which is the error of Modalism/Oneness theology. But this whole passage is about the Logos, who the Logos is, not who God is, so John purposely doesn't use the article to avoid equating the two words. Therefore, it can only have a qualitative meaning, that is, that the Word was divine in nature, or deity. However, since there is only one God, it is rightly translated as "the Word was God."

Verse 2 then repeats all of that with verse 3 providing the evidence that the Word is God in nature. Verse 10 is worth noting since it is clearly speaking of Jesus, as the Son, having created the world.

It's also worth noting that it is exceedingly difficult to see how God could be in an intimate, interpersonal relationship with a "divine plan and purpose." Persons are in relationships with other persons. That the Son preexisted in relationship with the Father is supported by:

Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
…
Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
…
Joh 6:50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
...
Joh 6:62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Joh 13:3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going back to God,

Joh 16:27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
Joh 16:28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.”
Joh 16:29 His disciples said, “Ah, now you are speaking plainly and not using figurative speech!
Joh 16:30 Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you; this is why we believe that you came from God.”

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
...
Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. (ESV)

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (ESV)

And the writer of Hebrews has the Father saying of the Son:

Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” (ESV)

But, that is a quote of Psalms 102:25-27, which is written of Yahweh:

Psa 102:25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Psa 102:26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
Psa 102:27 but you are the same, and your years have no end. (ESV)

All these passages and more attest to the fact that the Son has always been distinct from the Father, preexisting in a loving relationship for all "eternity past." Just being the agent of creation means the Son preexisted eternally. Of course, there is more that can be said about the love between the Father and the Son as well as their shared glory, which I have given elsewhere.

 

[electedbyHim]

Proofs of the Deity of Jesus Christ

1. He was omnipotent over disease.	Matt. 8:1-4; Luke 4:39
2. He was omnipotent over demons.	Matt. 8:16-17, 28-32; Luke 4:35
3. He was omnipotent over men.	Matt. 9:9; John 17:2
4. He was omnipotent over nature.	Matt. 8:26
5. He was omnipotent over sin.	Matt. 9:1-8
6. He was omnipotent over traditions.	Matt. 9:10-17
7. He was omnipotent over death.	Luke 7:14-15; 8:54-56; John 11:4
8. He was omniscient, knowing the whereabouts of Nathanael.	John 1:48
9. He was omniscient, knowing the plot of Judas.	John 6:70
10. He was omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees.	Matt. 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40
11. He knew the thoughts of the scribes.	Matt. 9:3-4
12. He knew the sincerity of one scribe.	Mark 12:34
13. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman.	John 4:24
14. He knew the problems of his disciples.	Luke 9:46-47
15. He was omnipresent.	Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20
16. He was worshiped as God by the angels.	Heb. 1:6
17. He was worshiped as God by the shepherds.	Luke 2:15
18. He was worshiped as God by the wise men.	Matt. 2:2, 11
19. He was worshiped as God by a leper.	Matt. 8:2
20. He was worshiped as God by a ruler.	Matt. 9:18
21. He was worshiped as God by a Canaanite woman.	Matt. 15:25
22. He was worshiped as God by a mother.	Matt. 20:20
23. He was worshiped as God by a maniac.	Mark 5:6
24. He was worshiped as God by a man born blind.	John 9:38
25. He was worshiped as God by Thomas.	John 20:28
26. He was worshiped as God by some Greeks.	John 12:20-21
27. He was worshiped as God by his apostles.	Matt. 14:33; 28:9
28. He forgave sins.	Mark 2:5, 10-11
29. He judges.	John 5:22
30. He saves.	Matt 18:11; John 10:28
31. Stephen called him God.	Acts 7:59
32. The eunuch called him God.	Acts 8:37
33. Paul called him God.	Gal. 2:20; Col. 1:15-17; 2:9; 1 Tim. 3:16; Titus 2:13
34. Peter called him God.	1 Pet. 3:22; 2 Pet. 1:17
35. Jude called him God.	Jude 25
36. James called him God.	James 2:1
37. John called him God.	1 John 5:20; Rev. 1:18; 19:16

Willmington, H. (1987). Willmington's book of Bible lists (166). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale.

 

[My Rock]

John 1 beautifully teaches the concept of God manifest in flesh. In the beginning was the Word (Greek, Logos). The Word was not a separate person or a separate god any more than a man’s word is a separate person from him. Rather the Word was the thought, plan, or mind of God. The Word was with God in the beginning and actually was God Himself (John 1:1). The Incarnation existed in the mind of God before the world began. Indeed, in the mind of God the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (I Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 13:8).

In Greek usage, logos can mean the expression or plan as it exists in the mind of the proclaimer—as a play in the mind of a playwright—or it can mean the thought as uttered or otherwise physically expressed— as a play that is enacted on stage. John 1 says the Logos existed as the mind of God from the beginning of time. When the fullness of time was come, God put His plan in action. He put flesh on that plan in the form of the man Jesus Christ. The Logos is God expressed. As John Miller says, the Logos is “God uttering Himself.”1 In fact, TAB translates the last phrase of John 1:1 as, “The Word was God Himself.” Flanders and Cresson say, “The Word was God’s means of self disclosure.” This thought is further brought out by verse 14, which says the incarnate Word had the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, and by verse 18, which says that the Son has declared the Father.

In Greek philosophy, the Logos came to mean reason or wisdom as the controlling principle of the universe. In John’s day, some Greek philosophers and theologians influenced by Greek thought (especially by the Jewish thinker Philo of Alexandria) regarded the Logos as an inferior, secondary deity or as an emanation from God in time.3 Some Christian heresies, including an emerging form of Gnosticism, were already incorporating these theories into their doctrines and therefore relegating Jesus to an inferior role. John deliberately used their own terminology to refute these doctrines and to declare the truth. The Word was not inferior to God; it was God (John 1:1). The Word did not emanate from God over a period of time; it was with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was none other than the Word, or God, revealed in flesh. Note also that the Greek word pros, translated “with” in verse 1, is the same word translated “pertaining to” in Hebrews 2:17 and 5:1. John 1:1 could include in its meanings, therefore, the following: “The Word pertained to God and the Word was God,” or “The Word belonged to God and was God.”

 

[Hidden In Him]

John 1 beautifully teaches the concept of God manifest in flesh.

My Rock, if you could, it helps to quote whoever you are specifically responding to. Not always necessary, but it can sometimes cause confusion if multiple people are interacting with you in a discussion.

Blessings,
- H

 

[My Rock]

My Rock, if you could, it helps to quote whoever you are specifically responding to. Not always necessary, but it can sometimes cause confusion if multiple people are interacting with you in a discussion.

Blessings,
- H

Will do in the future. Thank you

 

[Runningman]

Where do you see in scripture that Jesus was created? Scripture states, especially in John 1:1-14; John 17:5, that Jesus has always been, even before the foundation of the world.

Please quote the verses about what Jesus was saying or doing in the beginning or before the foundation of the world. There actually aren't any.

 

[My Rock]

Where do you see in scripture that Jesus was created? Scripture states, especially in John 1:1-14; John 17:5, that Jesus has always been, even before the foundation of the world.

Please quote the verses about what Jesus was saying or doing in the beginning or before the foundation of the world. There actually aren't any.

We have to keep in mind that God is Omniscient, so He exists outside of time and in any time (Past, Present and Future), so in His Mind the cross already happened at the Beginning and prophesied in Genesis 3:15, “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

It is important to understand that the scriptures speaking of Jesus "in the beginning" or "before the foundation of the world" are addressing the eternal plan and purpose of God, not a pre-existent Son distinct from the Father. John 1:1-14 reveals that the "Word" (Greek: Logos) was with God and was God, and that this Word became flesh as Jesus Christ. The Word here is understood as God's divine plan or expression, which was with Him from the beginning, not as a separate person but as the very mind and purpose of God Himself.

When Jesus speaks in John 17:5 of the glory He had with the Father before the world was, this is seen as a reference to the glory ordained for the Messiah in God's foreknowledge and purpose, rather than a literal pre-existence of the Son as a separate being. In God's eternal plan, Jesus was always the focal point of His redemptive work, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8). This is not to say that Jesus existed as a separate entity before His incarnation but that in God's sovereign plan, the incarnation and the work of Christ were foreordained.

The key idea is that Jesus, as the incarnate Word, came into existence at a specific point in time—born of a virgin, fully God and fully man (John 1:14; Galatians 4:4). The scriptures speak of God's plan being realized in Jesus, who is the embodiment of God's eternal Word and purpose. There are no verses that depict Jesus performing actions or speaking in a pre-incarnate state because His existence as the Son of God began with His incarnation. Thus, the focus of scripture is on Jesus as the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose, made manifest in the flesh to bring about our salvation.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

We have to keep in mind that God is Omniscient, so He exists outside of time and in any time (Past, Present and Future), so in His Mind the cross already happened at the Beginning and prophesied in Genesis 3:15, “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

It is important to understand that the scriptures speaking of Jesus "in the beginning" or "before the foundation of the world" are addressing the eternal plan and purpose of God, not a pre-existent Son distinct from the Father. John 1:1-14 reveals that the "Word" (Greek: Logos) was with God and was God, and that this Word became flesh as Jesus Christ. The Word here is understood as God's divine plan or expression, which was with Him from the beginning, not as a separate person but as the very mind and purpose of God Himself.

When Jesus speaks in John 17:5 of the glory He had with the Father before the world was, this is seen as a reference to the glory ordained for the Messiah in God's foreknowledge and purpose, rather than a literal pre-existence of the Son as a separate being. In God's eternal plan, Jesus was always the focal point of His redemptive work, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8). This is not to say that Jesus existed as a separate entity before His incarnation but that in God's sovereign plan, the incarnation and the work of Christ were foreordained.

The key idea is that Jesus, as the incarnate Word, came into existence at a specific point in time—born of a virgin, fully God and fully man (John 1:14; Galatians 4:4). The scriptures speak of God's plan being realized in Jesus, who is the embodiment of God's eternal Word and purpose. There are no verses that depict Jesus performing actions or speaking in a pre-incarnate state because His existence as the Son of God began with His incarnation. Thus, the focus of scripture is on Jesus as the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose, made manifest in the flesh to bring about our salvation.

Good morning My Rock, I understand what you are saying, what is your understanding of 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, and the other question I asked earlier? John 4:24 KJV, do you remember?

 

[My Rock]

Good morning My Rock, I understand what you are saying, what is your understanding of 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV

2 Corinthians 5:19, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

This verse highlights the profound truth of God's singular, unified presence in the person of Jesus Christ. The phrase "God was in Christ" underscores the belief that Jesus is the full embodiment of the one true God. This divine presence in Christ is central to the reconciliation process. Christ's incarnation represents God’s tangible, accessible means of bridging the chasm between humanity and Himself.

The act of not imputing trespasses points to the profound grace and mercy of God, manifesting in Christ's sacrifice, which removes the barrier of sin. This reconciliation brings believers into a restored relationship with God, fulfilling the promise of a new covenant where the old covenants' sacrificial system is fulfilled in Jesus' ultimate sacrifice. The "word of reconciliation" entrusted to believers is the message of this restored relationship, emphasizing the role of the church in continuing Christ’s mission of spreading this reconciliation. This understanding reaffirms the belief in the inseparable nature of God’s presence in Christ and the transformative impact of this divine reconciliation on the believer's eternal inheritance.

and the other question I asked earlier? John 4:24 KJV, do you remember?

John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

This verse underscores the essential nature of God and the proper manner of worship under the New Covenant. The phrase "God is a Spirit" signifies that God transcends physical limitations and cannot be confined to any material form. This aligns with the understanding that God, who is Spirit, veiled Himself fully in Jesus Christ. No man can see the Full unveiled Glory of God and live.

To worship God in spirit involves recognizing His omnipresence and His ability to dwell within us through the Holy Spirit. It reflects an intimate, personal relationship where worship is not just a ritual but an expression of our inner being and connection with God. The term "in truth" emphasizes that true worship is grounded in the revelation of God's nature and His work through Christ. This truth reveals that Jesus is the full manifestation of God, and worship must align with this understanding. Thus, this verse highlights the shift from the Old Covenants' physical temple worship to a spiritual worship that honors God’s revealed nature in Jesus Christ, emphasizing that genuine worship comes from a heart aligned with the truth of God's revelation. This approach fosters a deep, personal relationship with God, embracing His fullness and recognizing His transformative work in the believer's life.

 

[for_his_glory]

We have to keep in mind that God is Omniscient, so He exists outside of time and in any time (Past, Present and Future), so in His Mind the cross already happened at the Beginning and prophesied in Genesis 3:15, “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

It is important to understand that the scriptures speaking of Jesus "in the beginning" or "before the foundation of the world" are addressing the eternal plan and purpose of God, not a pre-existent Son distinct from the Father. John 1:1-14 reveals that the "Word" (Greek: Logos) was with God and was God, and that this Word became flesh as Jesus Christ. The Word here is understood as God's divine plan or expression, which was with Him from the beginning, not as a separate person but as the very mind and purpose of God Himself.

When Jesus speaks in John 17:5 of the glory He had with the Father before the world was, this is seen as a reference to the glory ordained for the Messiah in God's foreknowledge and purpose, rather than a literal pre-existence of the Son as a separate being. In God's eternal plan, Jesus was always the focal point of His redemptive work, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8). This is not to say that Jesus existed as a separate entity before His incarnation but that in God's sovereign plan, the incarnation and the work of Christ were foreordained.

The key idea is that Jesus, as the incarnate Word, came into existence at a specific point in time—born of a virgin, fully God and fully man (John 1:14; Galatians 4:4). The scriptures speak of God's plan being realized in Jesus, who is the embodiment of God's eternal Word and purpose. There are no verses that depict Jesus performing actions or speaking in a pre-incarnate state because His existence as the Son of God began with His incarnation. Thus, the focus of scripture is on Jesus as the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose, made manifest in the flesh to bring about our salvation.

I will have to respectfully disagree according to all these scriptures below that point to even Jesus saying He and the Father are one. (being the same Spirit)

Jesus is word, light and life that is God come in the flesh. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jesus is the word of God. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8

 

[My Rock]

I will have to respectfully disagree according to all these scriptures below that point to even Jesus saying He and the Father are one. (being the same Spirit)

That is too broad of a reply. I don't believe I ever said they are not one. If there is something specific in writing you don't agree with highlight that and what you think is wrong so we can discuss and find the truth together.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

2 Corinthians 5:19, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

This verse highlights the profound truth of God's singular, unified presence in the person of Jesus Christ. The phrase "God was in Christ" underscores the belief that Jesus is the full embodiment of the one true God. This divine presence in Christ is central to the reconciliation process. Christ's incarnation represents God’s tangible, accessible means of bridging the chasm between humanity and Himself.

The act of not imputing trespasses points to the profound grace and mercy of God, manifesting in Christ's sacrifice, which removes the barrier of sin. This reconciliation brings believers into a restored relationship with God, fulfilling the promise of a new covenant where the old covenants' sacrificial system is fulfilled in Jesus' ultimate sacrifice. The "word of reconciliation" entrusted to believers is the message of this restored relationship, emphasizing the role of the church in continuing Christ’s mission of spreading this reconciliation. This understanding reaffirms the belief in the inseparable nature of God’s presence in Christ and the transformative impact of this divine reconciliation on the believer's eternal inheritance.

John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

This verse underscores the essential nature of God and the proper manner of worship under the New Covenant. The phrase "God is a Spirit" signifies that God transcends physical limitations and cannot be confined to any material form. This aligns with the understanding that God, who is Spirit, veiled Himself fully in Jesus Christ. No man can see the Full unveiled Glory of God and live.

To worship God in spirit involves recognizing His omnipresence and His ability to dwell within us through the Holy Spirit. It reflects an intimate, personal relationship where worship is not just a ritual but an expression of our inner being and connection with God. The term "in truth" emphasizes that true worship is grounded in the revelation of God's nature and His work through Christ. This truth reveals that Jesus is the full manifestation of God, and worship must align with this understanding. Thus, this verse highlights the shift from the Old Covenants' physical temple worship to a spiritual worship that honors God’s revealed nature in Jesus Christ, emphasizing that genuine worship comes from a heart aligned with the truth of God's revelation. This approach fosters a deep, personal relationship with God, embracing His fullness and recognizing His transformative work in the believer's life.

Thank you for your input, I understand what you are saying, Can I ask you another question about this issue? about the link on page 5 of that thread, The Holy Spirit must be a Person, post 84, what did you think of it?

Love, Walter

 

[My Rock]

Thank you for your input, I understand what you are saying, Can I ask you another question about this issue? about the link on page 5 of that thread, The Holy Spirit must be a Person, post 84, what did you think of it?

Love, Walter

Why did Jesus say that God is spirit?Jesus said this to a woman who thought that physical locale has a bearing on proper worship of God. The fact that God is spirit means that God the Father does not have a human body. God the Son came to earth in human form ( John 1:1 ), but God the Father did not.

John doesn't say "God the Son" in John 1:1 The Self Expressive Eternal Word which is always eternal and uncreated became Son in time. The Bible does not use the phrase “God the Son” even one time. It is not a correct term because the Son of God refers to the humanity of Jesus Christ. The Bible defines the Son of God as the child born of Mary, not as the eternal Spirit of God (Luke 1:35). “Son of God” may refer to the human nature or it may refer to God manifested in flesh—that is, deity in the human nature. “Son of God” never means the incorporeal Spirit alone, however. We can never use “Son” correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ. The terms “Son of God,” “Son of man,” and “Son” are appropriate and biblical. However, the term “God the Son” is inappropriate because it equates the Son with deity alone, and therefore it is unscriptural.

Philosophically, God must be a spirit in order to be infinite. Also, if God was limited to a physical body, He could not be omnipresent (in all places at once). God the Father is not limited to the dimensional restrictions of created things but can exist in all places at one time. God is the uncreated First Cause that is the power behind all other beings.

So you are saying that when God spoke to moses in a physical location of the burning bush that He wasn't also Omnipresent seeing His people in Egypt at the same time.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

John doesn't say "God the Son" in John 1:1 The Self Expressive Eternal Word which is always eternal and uncreated became Son in time. The Bible does not use the phrase “God the Son” even one time. It is not a correct term because the Son of God refers to the humanity of Jesus Christ. The Bible defines the Son of God as the child born of Mary, not as the eternal Spirit of God (Luke 1:35). “Son of God” may refer to the human nature or it may refer to God manifested in flesh—that is, deity in the human nature. “Son of God” never means the incorporeal Spirit alone, however. We can never use “Son” correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ. The terms “Son of God,” “Son of man,” and “Son” are appropriate and biblical. However, the term “God the Son” is inappropriate because it equates the Son with deity alone, and therefore it is unscriptural.

So you are saying that when God spoke to moses in a physical location of the burning bush that He wasn't also Omnipresent seeing His people in Egypt at the same time.

No, Sir, GOD sees and knows all.

Love, Walter

 

[WalterandDebbie]

2 Corinthians 5:19, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

This verse highlights the profound truth of God's singular, unified presence in the person of Jesus Christ. The phrase "God was in Christ" underscores the belief that Jesus is the full embodiment of the one true God. This divine presence in Christ is central to the reconciliation process. Christ's incarnation represents God’s tangible, accessible means of bridging the chasm between humanity and Himself.

The act of not imputing trespasses points to the profound grace and mercy of God, manifesting in Christ's sacrifice, which removes the barrier of sin. This reconciliation brings believers into a restored relationship with God, fulfilling the promise of a new covenant where the old covenants' sacrificial system is fulfilled in Jesus' ultimate sacrifice. The "word of reconciliation" entrusted to believers is the message of this restored relationship, emphasizing the role of the church in continuing Christ’s mission of spreading this reconciliation. This understanding reaffirms the belief in the inseparable nature of God’s presence in Christ and the transformative impact of this divine reconciliation on the believer's eternal inheritance.

John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

This verse underscores the essential nature of God and the proper manner of worship under the New Covenant. The phrase "God is a Spirit" signifies that God transcends physical limitations and cannot be confined to any material form. This aligns with the understanding that God, who is Spirit, veiled Himself fully in Jesus Christ. No man can see the Full unveiled Glory of God and live.

To worship God in spirit involves recognizing His omnipresence and His ability to dwell within us through the Holy Spirit. It reflects an intimate, personal relationship where worship is not just a ritual but an expression of our inner being and connection with God. The term "in truth" emphasizes that true worship is grounded in the revelation of God's nature and His work through Christ. This truth reveals that Jesus is the full manifestation of God, and worship must align with this understanding. Thus, this verse highlights the shift from the Old Covenants' physical temple worship to a spiritual worship that honors God’s revealed nature in Jesus Christ, emphasizing that genuine worship comes from a heart aligned with the truth of God's revelation. This approach fosters a deep, personal relationship with God, embracing His fullness and recognizing His transformative work in the believer's life.

Thank you My Rock.

Love, Walter

 

[My Rock]

Thank you My Rock.

Love, Walter

You are welcome. Praise God in ALL He does.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The only difference I would suggest, to both you and for_his_glory , is that Jesus is name of the Son of God who became flesh. That is, the Word is just another name for the Son that John uses to tie him in with creation in Gen 1:1, as the agent of creation, which John then supports with John 1:3, 10. But, the Son is eternal and has always existed as the Son, and then became flesh in the person of Jesus.

The Word wasn't a "son" until He was born of woman.

 

[My Rock]

The Word wasn't a "son" until He was born of woman.

Amen

 

[WalterandDebbie]

The Word wasn't a "son" until He was born of woman.

Scripture, please.

Love, Walter

 

[My Rock]

The Word wasn't a "son" until He was born of woman.

Scripture, please.

Luke 1:35: "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Doesn't say He is called, but shall be called, future tense.