"The beginning" doesn't necessarily have to apply back to the very beginning. It can apply to whatever the beginning of the context it's talking about in. You mentioned John 1:1-14, but the context is regarding [the beginning] of Jesus' ministry with no mentioned of the beginning of the world.
It's called context.
Looking at the first clause, "In the beginning" is clearly a reference to
Gen 1:1. The word "was" is the Greek,
en, which is a form of
eimi (I Am), and speaks of continuous action in the past; that is, absolute preexistence before any creation. What that means is that when the beginning began, the Word was
already in existence, and hence, there was never a time when he did not exist. The very same applies to the Father, who has absolute preexistence.
Verse 2 repeats that statement. Verse 3 proves without a doubt that "the beginning" can only refer to the beginning of creation. It is clearly talking about the creation of all things--everything single thing that came into being. Simple, straightforward logic tells us that since "all things were made through" the Word, and that "without him was not any thing made that was made," it necessarily follows that the Word is not something that was made (see also 1 Cor 8:6 and Col 1:16-17). That is, there never was a time when the Word did not exist.
Your argument necessarily implies that Jesus started creating everything that came into being at the start of his ministry, which is obvious nonsense.
There is also no mention of a person named the Word in the literal beginning with God in Genesis.
This displays a serious ignorance of the doctrine of the Trinity and is fallaciously begging the question.
We can get a better idea of what beginning this is referring to by cross-examining other scriptural accounts. A good place to begin to understand John 1 better is 1 John 1.
1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen
it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship
is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
As you will observe from the above context, the Word of life is described as a thing in which the disciples were able to heard, see, and touch with their hands. Since the disciples didn't exist in the literal beginning of creation, then the beginning applies to the context of Jesus' ministry.
The Word is a thing that was manifested in Jesus. This refers to the various doctrines, teachings, and the gospel in which Jesus was taught and received from the Father (John 8:28, John 8:40) during his ministry.
This has been shown to you to be an exegetical fallacy numerous times, which you not only don't even bother to try and rebut, you continue to repeat it. That the word of life is spoken of in neuter terms has absolutely zero bearing on what John says about the Word in John 1:1. Again, this has been proven without question numerous times. You really need to start addressing arguments instead of repeating your errors. That you continually avoid addressing things shows that truth is unlikely to be on your side.
Not to mention, again, that one of Jesus's names is:
Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
Without question, the preincarnate Christ is the Word that is mentioned in John 1:1.
There is a good clue in John 17 about what Jesus was referring to and it wasn't a literal pre-existence or else it would follow that Jesus somehow or another lost his glory. The glory which Jesus shared with the Father refers to God's plan and foreknowledge of anointing and empowering him to do miraculous works. Thusly, Jesus said in John 17:5 "now, O Father, glorify thou me..." So Jesus was only then, at that present time, being glorified.
No, there is simply no way that it can mean anything
but Jesus, as the Son, actually shared in the glory of the Father. It makes zero sense to say that "Jesus shared with the Father refers to God's plan and foreknowledge of anointing and empowering him to do miraculous works." That is makes Jesus speak nonsense. You'll twist everything any which way to avoid the most plain and obvious statements.
And, yet again, this is based on ignoring the plain meaning of passages such as Phil 2:6-8.
After that, Jesus spoke of giving this very same glory to the disciples in John 17:22 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"
The glory which Jesus had with the Father before the world was also included giving that glory to the disciples.
No. There are two different things being talked about.
Joh 17:5 And now, Father,
glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
...
Joh 17:13 But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
...
Joh 17:22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
...
Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me,
may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
Notice that verses 5 and 24 are talking about the same thing, with Jesus clearly stating in verse 24 that he desires that those who belong to him "may be with [him] where [he is]," which is heaven. So, the glory he mentions in verses 5 and 24 cannot be what he means in verse 22.
Similarly, we see in other places:
Mat 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
Mat 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mar 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
Luk 2:9 And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with great fear.
Luk 9:29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white.
...
Luk 9:32 Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, but when they became fully awake they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him.
Those are talking about something much different than John 17:22; it is the glory Jesus mentions in John 17:5, 24. Jesus
did not give that glory to his disciples, at least not even close to the full measure of it, which has yet to be revealed.
Since Jesus didn't give the disciples glory before the world was, then Jesus didn't literally pre-exist.
This is fallacious and nonsensical.
As we have discussed already, the word incarnate doesn't exist in Scripture nor is the idea described in Scripture. Thank you for admitting that there is nothing about the pre-existence of Jesus in Scripture though.
The Word incarnate absolutely does exist in Scripture. A plain reading cannot lead anyone to believe your position. Once again:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
...
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
...
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
(All ESV.)
Therefore there is no proof to argue for him being God.
Ample proof has been given to you, but you twist Scripture and avoid those things most difficult for your position.
