Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

[jasoncran]

we are NOT temples of the holy ghost. but of God

1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, (ESV)

I don't pretend do know what the new body will be but I do think we will not have blood anymore.

I see no reason to believe that we won't have blood.

jesus had wounds yet he didn't bleed.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] / [MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] 1 Cor 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

 

[By Grace]

jesus had wounds yet he didn't bleed.

Luke 22:. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground

 

[MarkT]

But you said Jesus was the true God of Israel. Now you're saying the Father is the true God of Israel? So who is the true God of Israel? Both?

The Father is the true God of Israel. However, both the Father and the Son, the true God and the workman, are God and Christ. They are ONE. So the Father is God and Christ and the Son is God and Christ. But the Father is the true God. The Son is like the Father but not equal to the Father.

The true God, the Father, declared, 'I am God, and also henceforth I am He.' Isaiah 43:13 These words were delivered by the workman to the prophet Isaiah. Thus the workman himself, because he delivered the words truly and faithfully, being the true and faithful servant, was anointed by the Father both God and Christ. Isa. 42:1, Mt. 12:18

"Technically yes"? Either the LORD is the God of Israel or he is not. Do you even realize that "LORD" is the typical English translation of YHWH, the name of the one true God? According to your position then, the LORD necessarily is the Father. How then can the Father send another who is himself?

You're right. The LORD is the Father's name, the name of the true God. But up until Moses, the workman (he was in the form of God), the one who appeared to Abraham and who spoke to Moses, did not have a name. He was known as the God with no name. It wasn't until the true God said, 'The LORD, this is my name forever and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.' Ex. 3:15, that the workman was given his name. From that time forward the workman would go by the Father's name and speak in the Father's name.

So you have the the LORD, the workman, delivering words from the LORD, the Father, to the prophets.

Likewise, we are workmen when we have been conformed to the likeness of Christ, our Master. We deliver what we hear from the Lord. If we are faithful and true, we will receive a reward.

Was he fully a man and that's it? If I say that Jesus was God am I actually dismissing "what he said about himself with respect to the Father"?

Yes. You never quote Jesus. Why is that?

I haven't needed to. We are dealing with Phil 2. Are you suggesting that Paul's writing is inferior to Jesus' words?

No comparison. Paul expands our knowledge. But the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Heb. 4:12

 

[jasoncran]

jesus had wounds yet he didn't bleed.

Luke 22:. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground

his glorified body. what did Thomas do? touch a fake hole in his abdomen.? remember the one where it had blood and water come out when he was dead on the cross and that was to see if he died or they would break his legs. that wound wouldn't be deep now would it?

I know that he bled and died but im talking about after he arose. that is the issue!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

jesus had wounds yet he didn't bleed.

Luke 22:. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground

his glorified body. what did Thomas do? touch a fake hole in his abdomen.? remember the one where it had blood and water come out when he was dead on the cross and that was to see if he died or they would break his legs. that wound wouldn't be deep now would it?

I know that he bled and died but im talking about after he arose. that is the issue!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post#482

 

[jasoncran]

.

jesus had wounds yet he didn't bleed.

Luke 22:. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground

his glorified body. what did Thomas do? touch a fake hole in his abdomen.? remember the one where it had blood and water come out when he was dead on the cross and that was to see if he died or they would break his legs. that wound wouldn't be deep now would it?

I know that he bled and died but im talking about after he arose. that is the issue!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post#482

I agree with you urk. by grace has assumed that I deny the physical body of Christ. I am NOT a gnostic. what I am defending is that resurrected body may not have blood as jesus didn't. of course we could aslo say no heart either. etc.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] assumption is the devil's work. try not to assume or think someone is assuming.

 

[WIP]

There are no "people" in the Trinity. People are humans

But scripture said he lowered himself to the likeness of men. Did Jesus not partake in human suffering on the cross. Was his blood not red.

Is Jesus human today?

Everything seems to suggest that Jesus is still the God-man:

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
...
1Co 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
...
1Co 15:35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?"
1Co 15:36 You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body.
...
1Co 15:42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
...
1Co 15:48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
1Co 15:49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. (ESV)

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. (ESV)

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. (ESV)

Thank you for this. I guess I never really gave it much thought before but this is much clearer now.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] assumption is the devil's work. try not to assume or think someone is assuming.

I didn't clearly post my position earlier that is why she is doing that. with that jesus wasn't human post. that is why

 

[Free]

we are NOT temples of the holy ghost. but of God

1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, (ESV)

I don't pretend do know what the new body will be but I do think we will not have blood anymore.

I see no reason to believe that we won't have blood.

jesus had wounds yet he didn't bleed.

And he turned water into wine, fed thousands with very little food, raised the dead, walked on water, etc. An interesting observation I came across recently is the fact that after his resurrection he still had the wounds. Something to consider for all those people who think we will be raised perfect....just something to consider and for another topic.

@jasoncran / @Free 1 Cor 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

This is a reference to our fallen, corrupted state, not actual flesh and blood. It cannot be so:

Luk 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Luk 24:40 And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?"
Luk 24:42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
Luk 24:43 and he took it and ate before them. (ESV)

Nothing about blood but that is irrelevant. He clearly was still human in the way that we are, but how much more human.

 

[Free]

.

his glorified body. what did Thomas do? touch a fake hole in his abdomen.? remember the one where it had blood and water come out when he was dead on the cross and that was to see if he died or they would break his legs. that wound wouldn't be deep now would it?

I know that he bled and died but im talking about after he arose. that is the issue!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post#482

I agree with you urk. by grace has assumed that I deny the physical body of Christ. I am NOT a gnostic. what I am defending is that resurrected body may not have blood as jesus didn't. of course we could aslo say no heart either. etc.

I believe that the whole point of being resurrected is that we will then get on with the work God had set out for Adam and Eve to do in the first place. We're human now but we'll be truly human, what humanity was meant to be all along. I just simply see no reason to believe that we will be physiologically different from what we are now.

 

[By Grace]

I agree with you urk. by grace has assumed that I deny the physical body of Christ

Sorry, but I assumed nothing of the sort. I focused on the part I made in red.

Quote Originally Posted by jasoncran View Post jesus had wounds yet he didn't bleed.

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

What do you think happened when he was scourged by a whip?

When the soldiers placed the crown of thorns in His head, do you think it was done gently? To state that Jesus did not did not bleed at the crucifixion is to deny the efficacy of the Atonement because in the OT it says, "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins" (paraphrase).

I know that he bled and died but im talking about after he arose. that is the issue!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not wish to be snotty or snarky, but had you been as clear as you are here, we would not have gone on in the direction we were heading. :shades

So you are really asking about our resurrected bodies, right?

1 Corinthians 15: 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Therefore we SHALL have a body, and its nature will be spiritual, not physical.

What that entails, we can only guess, but we can see some of the attributes of Jesus' resurrected body through what he did after His resurrection, and then assume (without going too far astray) that we shall share some of those same attributes in our resurrected bodies.

As to the degree and the sorts of attributes we will share with Jesus is to go beyond what Scripture says, and then we take a walk into the land of heresy, which is forbidden territory.

Hope that helps

 

[jasoncran]

The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

john 20.

uhm they used a spear to thrust that hole. it was deep as it touched something to what doctors called an indication he died of an heart attack. thus it pearced into the his chest region and also his aorta. doctors mention that fluid of both water and blood mix in that region when the heart attack is big enough and congestive heart failure. that is what I mean if he had blood why isn't he bleeding then? that hole and others were still there. a mere few cm killed the croc guy within minutes and a spear is bit bigger then that.

 

[Guest]

@jasoncran / @Free 1 Cor 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

This is a reference to our fallen, corrupted state, not actual flesh and blood. It cannot be so:

No, this scripture is talking about resurrected bodies after death. Inheriting the kingdom after death. It helps to read the titles of chapters Free.

 

[Free]

@jasoncran / @Free 1 Cor 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

This is a reference to our fallen, corrupted state, not actual flesh and blood. It cannot be so:

No, this scripture is talking about resurrected bodies after death. Inheriting the kingdom after death. It helps to read the titles of chapters Free.

Yes, I am well aware that. I suggest you re-read my post and look up how the term "flesh" is used in Scripture.

 

[jasoncran]

I am not saying that flesh is bad, but well I was born with some defects. will I get them back when I die and be raised? what caused these defects? was it the curse of sin that was given in the garden? yes. I have a hole in my spine that is from birth but I don't ever feel it. I also have siblings and my dad who were born with certain conditions will they get them all back too?