Understanding the Incarnation

[hawkman]

It had to be in the DNA somewhere afterwards.

Still asking who put it there and when they put it there ?

Babies are born innocent due to their ignorance, in a way , a lot like Adam and Eve. Only babies grow into the knowledge of good and evil and will be accountable when that happens. If they die before that happens, instant heaven.

So babies are born without sin nature and sin nature somehow gets in the DNA later ? Can you explain ?

 

[Dave...]

Still asking who put it there and when they put it there ?

The sin nature is a natural part of being separated from God. We inherit that from Adam. The physical part is somehow the result of sin. Does it happen naturally as a result of sin, or does God put it there, I don't really know. I would assume that it's natural, not caused, but God understand this, still is providentially governing it. In other words, He sovereign over it, but it's natural.

So babies are born without sin nature and sin nature somehow gets in the DNA later ? Can you explain ?

Babies are born with a sin nature, but are innocent due to their ignorance. They have the physical flaws that was passed down through their parents. And will add to that, I presume, when they begin to sin with understanding. The spiritual part, would be from separation from God, which is inherited from Adam.

Dave

 

[Dave...]

By "flesh", I assume you refer to the "worldly oriented mind", and not "skin and bones" ?
Right ?

Right

Sin separates man from God, so those too young to commit sin are not separated from God

We are separated from God from birth. Psalm 51:5

A parents teachings can go a long way towards a child who is knowledgeable about the Lord, and is willing to not only please his parents, but also God.

Hmmm.

See my post Bible teaching most recent. out of time.

Dave

 

[hawkman]

Let's go back to your first reply to me if you don't mind , I saw things I missed .

When Adam and Eve sinned, the penalty for sin is death. It's a spiritual separation from God.

The penalty for their sin was spiritual death and not physical death , you agree ? Gen 2:17 "in the day "

That wasn't there before they sinned. It had to be in the DNA somewhere afterwards. Because if it wasn't, they wouldn't have died.

Nah , no sin nature in the DNA . They died because they did not partake of the tree of life . Gen 3:22

But Praise God when can now partake of the Living Water . John 7:37-38

When Adam and Eve had children, those children were born separated from God, that's spiritual death.

Bible verses in Genesis to support this ? Does God at any time say he is separating Himself from mankind ?

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

 

[Hopeful 2]

Right
We are separated from God from birth. Psalm 51:5

I disagree with your interpretation.

See my post Bible teaching most recent. out of time.Dave

 

[Dave...]

The penalty for their sin was spiritual death and not physical death , you agree ? Gen 2:17 "in the day "

It's a spiritual death, but will ultimately lead to the physical death.

Nah , no sin nature in the DNA . They died because they did not partake of the tree of life . Gen 3:22

But the physical effects resulting from that sin nature are there in the DNA. If it wasn't, none of us would die. None of us would need to be physically resurrected. There would be no flaws. There would be no need for us to be healed in the atonement (Rev. 21:4)

Bible verses in Genesis to support this ? Does God at any time say he is separating Himself from mankind ?

The penalty for sin is death. If you sinned one time, you cannot be in the presence of God until His justice is met. His attributes demand this of Him. Romans 5:12, 1 Tim 2:5 Why would we need a Mediator (Jesus) if there was no separation?

Genesis 3:22-24 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

You can only answer in with scripture from the book of Revelation (joke).

Dave

 

[Dougcho]

But the physical effects of that sin nature are there in the DNA.

Let's try dealing with ...
How is the sin nature passed down through the generations?
Are there any possibilities other than:
male sperm, blood (M and/or F), DNA.

 

[Dave...]

Let's try dealing with ...
How is the sin nature passed down through the generations?
Are there any possibilities other than:
male sperm, blood (M and/or F), DNA.

Sorry, my wording may have been confusing. I changed it to "But the physical effects resulting from that sin nature are there in the DNA." It's a spiritual death from separation. Everything after that is a natural result of that Spiritual.

The separation from God is spiritual death. The natural result of that is sin. The natural result of that is physical decay, including death. I hope that helps.

I think the difficulty here is that if a person begins with a humanist idea that man is inherently good, none of this will sound right to that person. Man apart from God, can only live by the flesh. Living by the flesh is always sin, and opposite of living by the Spirit.

Dave

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's a spiritual death, but will ultimately lead to the physical death.



But the physical effects resulting from that sin nature are there in the DNA. If it wasn't, none of us would die. None of us would need to be physically resurrected. There would be no flaws. There would be no need for us to be healed in the atonement (Rev. 21:4)



The penalty for sin is death. If you sinned one time, you cannot be in the presence of God until His justice is met. His attributes demand this of Him. Romans 5:12, 1 Tim 2:5 Why would we need a Mediator (Jesus) if there was no separation?

Genesis 3:22-24 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

You can only answer in with scripture from the book of Revelation (joke).

Dave

If a sin nature is in the DNA, won't gene splicing eventually be able to remove it ?

 

[Dave...]

The sin nature is spiritual. The result of that spiritual fall is the physical. You are born separated from God, hense, you have the sin nature. This is what we inherited from Adam. The physical is not the sin nature. But the result of the sin nature. The flaws from the physical are passed down.

Dave

 

[Dave...]

I had to respond quickly in my last post. Sorry.

The sin nature is not injected into us, it's simply a separation from God. We are like a lamp who needs to be plugged into God to do good. He doesn't make us able to do good, He makes us able to yield to Him (filling of the Spirit), so that He can produce good through us. Under Adam's headship, we all inherited this separation from God. It's passed down to all of us. It's spiritual, 100% and complete.

Being separated from God, man can only sin continually all the time. Even if a person has peace with God, as we do as Christians, we still has the flesh that wars with the Spirit, and the sin that results, and the physical decay that follows from that sin. There is a physical affect from the sin.

This physical part is passed down also, but is not the sin nature, which is spiritual. The physical decay is the result of sin, which is the result of our sin nature.

Unlike the spiritual sin nature, that being a separation from God, which is complete from birth, the physical affects are always growing and getting worse as explained in a previous post.

Our physical resurrection in Jesus, because He is the second Adam, doesn't happen until after we die. Then we will be both Spiritually resurrected (born again), and then physically resurrected in Glory (all the defects gone, no more death, no more tears, no more pain, etc. ). This is what we should have been in the first Adam.


Dave

 

[follower]

Your comments on all of this would be most interesting!

Too much false to try to begin to correct.

 

[Dougcho]

Too much false to try to begin to correct.

The NT verses quoted are false???

 

[leroy]

Let’s investigate and see if we can possibly get a solid understanding
of the Incarnation (birth) of Jesus Christ.

You will see below … In the beginning, the Members of the Holy Trinity
were God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit.

Many churches teach that the Son of God (Jesus Christ) came down from heaven
to be the Messiah, the Savior. But, this is just NOT true because Jesus was
created (or formed) in Mary’s womb (on earth) … by God the Holy Spirit.

Christ (English) = Cristos (Greek) = Messiah (Hebrew)

How did the Holy Spirit perform this miraculous “Immaculate Conception”?
Possibility #1: the Holy Spirit provided the male sperm necessary
Possibility #2: the Holy Spirit “created” the fetus in Mary’s womb

God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus

The archangel Gabriel said to the virgin Mary:
“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son,
and shall call His name Jesus … The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also,
that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:31-35)
Jesus was called “the Son of God” because His “Father” was God the Holy Spirit!
And Luke quoted Isaiah as saying: Jesus would be “God with us” …

And Gabriel said to Joseph:
“… that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus
… So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken by the Lord through the prophet (Isaiah), saying:
‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall
call His name Immanuel’, which is translated, ‘God with us’.” (Matthew 1:20-23)

Did Jesus inherit man’s sin nature?
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via email)
that every human inherits the DNA of BOTH parents.
So, unless the Holy Spirit over-rode this (which is a possibility),
the baby Jesus in Mary’s womb inherited her DNA.

Does this mean that Jesus was “fully man”?
“Therefore, it was necessary for Him to be made in every respect like us,
His brothers and sisters, so that He could be our merciful and faithful
High Priest before God.” (Hebrews 2:17)

So, Jesus was “fully man” … But, how then could He be “fully God”?

God the Word’s role in the “creation” of Jesus

“… the Word was God … And the Word became human (Jesus Christ)
and made His home among us.” (John 1:1, 1:14)

So, Jesus was “fully God” … But, wouldn’t this over-ride His sin nature?

Your comments on all of this would be most interesting!

And just thought I’d ask:
When did God the Word become a human being (Jesus Christ)
… while Jesus was in the womb, or after He was born?

Since Jesus was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, it would clearly state that his genetics were of Mary, David and Adam. Adam could only pass on what he had, a fallen nature that had suffered 4000 years of degradation. These sins were passed on to him to overcome. It would be necessary to do that to demonstrate to us and satanic agencies that through the power of the life of the Son of God all defects can be overcome by the weakest child who clings by faith to Father as the son of Mary.
Jesus had the Son living and walking in him
2 Cor 6:16 God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Does it ring true with you that Jesus was a descendent of Adam with all the baggage we have. The Son who is divine was dwelling in him. Just as has been promised to us.

 

[Free]

Too much false to try to begin to correct.

It would be much better to actually go through and point out what you think is wrong, or just say nothing, rather than just make statements such as this which do nothing for the discussion. This is the Theology forum, after all.

 

[hawkman]

The sin nature is not injected into us, it's simply a separation from God.

You are correct there is no sin nature inside of us ! Glad to see this .

Under Adam's headship, we all inherited this separation from God. It's passed down to all of us. It's spiritual, 100% and complete.

We have inherited a natural world full of sinners sinning and the signs of sin all around us , a hand me down world .

 

[Dave...]

You are correct there is no sin nature inside of us ! Glad to see this .

It's there, it's just not injected. It's a separation from God. That's why we need a Mediator.

 

[hawkman]

It's there, it's just not injected. It's a separation from God. That's why we need a Mediator.

So , what is it that is inside of us ?

Where is it inside of us ?

Who put it there ?

When did they put it there ?

If you are a Christian are you separated from God ? We have the Holy Spirit as Christians .

 

[Dougcho]

Does it ring true with you that Jesus was a descendent of Adam with all the baggage we have.
The Son who is divine was dwelling in him. Just as has been promised to us.

Yes, Jesus was a descendant of Adam (through Mary).

NOWHERE is it stated that the Son of God EXISTED
... PRIOR to the Incarnation (birth of Jesus).
This is because Jesus was to be called "the Son of God"
due to the fact that God the Holy Spirit was His father
(or played the role of His father).
Contrary to most people's teaching ...
this is the ONLY reason for calling Him "the Son of God"!

 

[Free]

Yes, Jesus was a descendant of Adam (through Mary).

NOWHERE is it stated that the Son of God EXISTED
... PRIOR to the Incarnation (birth of Jesus).
This is because Jesus was to be called "the Son of God"
due to the fact that God the Holy Spirit was His father
(or played the role of His father).
Contrary to most people's teaching ...
this is the ONLY reason for calling Him "the Son of God"!

Still no response to this post: https://christianforums.net/threads/understanding-the-incarnation.110334/post-1919897