Understanding the Incarnation

[Dougcho]

I would like to know where Jesus says he is the Word. Did he ever mention that to anyone, particularly when mentioning his preexistence?
Jesus, who referred to himself as the Son of God, told his listeners several times that he had come from heaven and both implicitly and explicitly claimed equality with the Father, all of which implies eternal preexistence. He also said that the Father loved him and that he shared in the Father's glory prior to creation, both of which imply eternal preexistence. But not once does he say he preexisted as the Word or ever refer to himself as the Word. So, if he wasn't the Son of God prior to the incarnation, he certainly mislead his listeners to believe that he was.
Why do you think that only John refers to the pre-incarnate Christ as the Word? Why do the rest of the NT writers simply refer to Jesus as the Son when referring to his existence prior to the incarnation, ? Yes, they also refer to him as Jesus Christ, but since Jesus is the name given to the God-man, I would argue that they're implicitly referring to his Sonship.
Perhaps the strongest support for eternal Sonship is found in the incarnation itself as it relates to the Trinity. Without the eternal relationship of the Father and the Son, we have no idea what sort of relationship existed between them. Indeed, the Father couldn't not have been the Father prior to the incarnation. That then leads to ambiguity and lack of force for John 3:16:
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (ESV)
That speaks of the infinite cost of our sin and the lengths to which the Father was willing to go because he loved us so much--"he gave his only Son." Fathers, and indeed mothers, would very much understand the force of the Father giving his only Son. But, if the Son only became the Son at the incarnation, then that gets largely lost.
When it comes to the Trinity, it's interesting that you state "God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit," but there is no Son. How can there be "God the Father" if there is no God the Son? It would mean that God the Father became the Father after the incarnation, so we don't know who he was prior, other than the First Person of the Trinity. That leaves us with the First Person of the Trinity, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. Seems rather odd, yes? It would also mean that the title "Son of God" refers to Jesus's humanity or at least create ambiguity as to whether it refers to his deity or his humanity.
No. The Father is the Father. The Holy Spirit cannot be said to have "played the role of Jesus' father" without implying some sort of sexual relations with Mary.

Yes, John was the only one to call Jesus "the Word".
When Jesus said He came from heaven ...
He was referring to the Word who came from heaven to become Himself (Jesus).
The equality with God was referring to the Word who became Himself (Jesus).
I am dealing ONLY with what the NT says, nothing else!

 

[Dave...]

So , what is it that is inside of us ?

Where is it inside of us ?

Who put it there ?

When did they put it there ?

If you are a Christian are you separated from God ? We have the Holy Spirit as Christians .

Hi Hawk

I think that losing the idea that man is inherently good will help you to grasp what I'm saying. To use a previous illustration, apart from God, we are a lamp left unplugged. God is the source of good. Apart from Him, from the flesh, we cannot produce good. Even in Him, anything from our flesh is not good. Anything good that comes from us is an undeserved gift from God. It is a work from His Spirit, not our flesh. So naturally, man apart from God is is in a hopeless state without God intervening. This is what we inherited from Adam.

If you haven't yet, I would suggest that you really dive into Romans. If goes over all this in great detail.

Dave

 

[hawkman]

I think that losing the idea that man is inherently good will help you to grasp what I'm saying.

We start with a blank slate and we learn , neither inherently good nor inherently bad .

So naturally, man apart from God is is in a hopeless state without God intervening. This is what we inherited from Adam.

And God intervened with a man . Acts Chapter 10 .


1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

4And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

 

[Consecrated Life]

We start with a blank slate and we learn , neither inherently good nor inherently bad .

And God intervened with a man . Acts Chapter 10 .

"Good" in human understanding is not "good" in God's eyes.
The young man that came to Jesus seeking validation was not liar, thru his learning he had done so many good deeds that if he were here today he would not have enough space to stockpile all his humanitarian awards and honorary certificates of selfless service .
Yet Jesus proclaimed that he fell short of the mark.

Mar 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children.......

 

[Free]

Yes, John was the only one to call Jesus "the Word".
When Jesus said He came from heaven ...
He was referring to the Word who came from heaven to become Himself (Jesus).
The equality with God was referring to the Word who became Himself (Jesus).

But not once does Jesus say he preexisted as the Word or ever refer to himself as the Word. In other words, Jesus's listeners didn't know he had been and was the Word. He does, however, refer to himself as the Son and the Son of God, and does say several times that he came down from heaven. Even the Father says that Jesus is his Son (Matt. 3:17; 17:5). So, if Jesus wasn't the Son of God prior to the incarnation, then he mislead his listeners to believe that he was, didn't he?

Why do you think John is the only writer in the NT to refer to Jesus as the Word and also the only to record Jesus as referring to himself as the Son of God? Why do the rest of the NT writers simply refer to Jesus as the Son when referring to his existence prior to the incarnation (with a couple of exceptions)?

As I stated, perhaps the strongest support for eternal Sonship is found in the incarnation itself as it relates to the Trinity. Without the eternal relationship of the Father and the Son, we have no idea what sort of relationship existed between them. Indeed, the Father couldn't not have been the Father prior to the incarnation. That then leads to ambiguity and lack of force for John 3:16:

Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. (ESV)

That speaks of the infinite cost of our sin and the lengths to which the Father was willing to go because he loved us so much--"he gave his only Son."

1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
...
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. (ESV)

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, (ESV)

Who was born of a woman? The Son. He didn't become the Son, he already was the Son; he became flesh.

Fathers, and indeed mothers, would very much understand the force of the Father giving his only Son. But, if the Son only became the Son at the incarnation, then that gets largely lost.

1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. (ESV)

"Appeared" is "to manifest" or "to make visible." That is, the Son of God was made manifest.

I am dealing ONLY with what the NT says, nothing else!

You dealing with some of what the NT says and not taking other relevant things it says into consideration. That is to remove things from their context.

 

[Consecrated Life]

But not once does Jesus say he preexisted as the Word or ever refer to himself as the Word. In other words, Jesus's listeners didn't know he had been and was the Word.

His disciples knew He was both Word and Son .
When you can scientifically explain how the physical body of the resurrected Jesus, which could eat fish and be felt to the touch , could pass thru stone walls then you will be able to understand how He can be both Word and Son.
I have a feeling that even after we are in His presence in heaven there will remain things known only to the Father and the Son that no other will ever know .

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Free]

His disciples knew He was both Word and Son .
When you can scientifically explain how the physical body of the resurrected Jesus, which could eat fish and be felt to the touch , could pass thru stone walls then you will be able to understand how He can be both Word and Son.
I have a feeling that even after we are in His presence in heaven there will remain things known only to the Father and the Son that no other will ever know .

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Yes, and you're not understanding the point I am making.

 

[My Rock]

The term “Son of God” as used in Scripture does not signify a separate person within a Trinity but rather refers to the manifestation of the one true God, the I AM, in visible, tangible form as Jesus Christ. This understanding emphasizes the absolute unity and indivisibility of God. Here is a detailed explanation:

Definition of "Son" as Flesh

The term Son of God describes the humanity of Jesus Christ, which came into existence at the incarnation. The "Son" was not eternal but was born in time when "the Word was made flesh" (John 1:14). The eternal God, who is Spirit (John 4:24), became visible and relatable by taking on human form. This does not indicate a separate person but God Himself manifesting as flesh.

Paul writes, “But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law” (Galatians 4:4). This indicates the Son’s beginning in the incarnation, emphasizing His human nature.

The Incarnation of the I AM

Jesus explicitly connects Himself with the I AM of the Old Testament: “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). This assertion identifies Jesus as the same God who spoke to Moses in the burning bush (Exodus 3:14).

The incarnation was God’s way of revealing Himself to humanity in a way we could understand. Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus "the image of the invisible God," underscoring that the Son is the physical manifestation of the omnipresent Spirit.

​

2 Corinthians 5:19

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." This passage plainly shows that Jesus’ role as the Son was not a separate entity from God but rather God Himself working through His human manifestation. The flesh of Jesus Christ was the vehicle through which God enacted salvation.

The Father in the Son

Jesus affirmed this relationship in John 14:9-11: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father... Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me.” Here, Jesus makes it clear that the Father (the Spirit) and the Son (the flesh) are not separate persons but different aspects of the one God.

​

1 Timothy 1:17

Paul describes God as “the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.” The incarnation does not change God’s nature as Spirit but adds a visible, tangible manifestation in the person of Jesus Christ.

John 1:18

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." The Son is the revelation of the invisible God, making Him known to humanity.

​

Isaiah 9:6

The prophecy of Jesus explicitly identifies Him as the Father: “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given... and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” The "Son" born to us is simultaneously the everlasting Father, highlighting the unity of God's manifestations.

Colossians 2:9

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Jesus is not one-third of a triune God; He is the fullness of God manifest in the flesh.

​

God Did Not Cease to Be Omnipresent

While God robed Himself in flesh, He did not vacate heaven or cease to be omnipresent. Jesus prays in John 17:1-3, showing the relationship between the Spirit (Father) and the flesh (Son). This prayer does not imply separation but demonstrates the dual nature of Christ: fully God and fully man.

John 3:13

Jesus refers to Himself as both on earth and in heaven simultaneously: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” This affirms His omnipresence as God while being physically present as the Son.

​

The "Son of God" refers to the humanity of Jesus, created for the purpose of revealing God to humanity and accomplishing redemption. It is not a title for a separate person but rather the flesh through which the invisible, omnipresent Spirit of God made Himself known. The incarnation is God’s way of bridging the gap between Himself and mankind, fulfilling the role of Savior while maintaining His indivisible nature. In Jesus Christ, we see the fullness of the I AM robed in flesh, reconciling the world to Himself.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Yes, and you're not understanding the point I am making.

I understood your initial point that Jesus never said that He existed as the Word prior to becoming flesh , and that His listeners did not know this .
Based on the disciples testimony I do not see how Jesus did not reveal this fact to them as that is the only way they would be able to bare truthful witness to the fact .
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Dougcho]

"Appeared" is "to manifest" or "to make visible." That is, the Son of God was made manifest.

You don't appear to understand why Gabriel said
Jesus was to be called "the Son of God".
T'was so because God the Holy Spirit was Jesus' Father
(or played the role of Jesus' Father).
Father: God the Holy Spirit
Mother: the virgin Mary

 

[Dougcho]

For those who have been deceived into believing that
the Word was Jesus in heaven prior to the Incarnation:
"the Word (Jesus) became flesh-human-Jesus" (John 1:14)

Becoming yourself is a cute trick that only the Lord could do!
That's why He is called the Almighty God, etc.

 

[Consecrated Life]

For those who have been deceived into believing that
the Word was Jesus in heaven prior to the Incarnation:
"the Word (Jesus) became flesh-human-Jesus" (John 1:14)

Becoming yourself is a cute trick that only the Lord could do!
That's why He is called the Almighty God, etc.

So do you think the Word had the same color eyes as Jesus , or did Jesus chose a different color for His incarnation eyes ?

Luke 10:18
I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

 

[Free]

You don't appear to understand why Gabriel said
Jesus was to be called "the Son of God".

That Gabriel said Jesus would be call the Son of God does not preclude the Son of God from preexisting.

Why is it that you still haven't addressed most of what I have stated?

 

[Dougcho]

Why is it that you still haven't addressed most of what I have stated?

Sorry, I thought I went back to that long post and tried to answer it.
How about stating one point at a time ... and I'll be sure to respond.

 

[Dougcho]

That Gabriel said Jesus would be call the Son of God does not preclude the Son of God from preexisting.

Yes, and the same goes for Gabriel saying to call Him "Jesus".
However, it does appear that he is saying that these are NEW titles for
the NEW "creation" (created-formed by the Holy Spirit and God the Word)
... who was flesh-human-Jesus ... yes, fully human and fully God.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Yes, and the same goes for Gabriel saying to call Him "Jesus".
However, it does appear that he is saying that these are NEW titles for
the NEW "creation" (created-formed by the Holy Spirit and God the Word)
... who was flesh-human-Jesus ... yes, fully human and fully God.

Named not as a "new creation" but the for the commencement His ultimate purpose , "to save"
The pre-incarnate Son in heaven had not undertaken His mission to save His people so there was no need to apply that name to Him.
This method of God's in naming according to the new commencement of Holy purpose can be seen elsewhere in scripture .
We see this with Abraham who was called Abram , until he took the mission that God said He had for him:

Gen 17:5
Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee

We can also see happen with Jacob:

Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Along the lines of in what form, or forms was the Son capable of existing as prior to incarnation as well the question is the Son also God it is interesting to note that Jacob was given his new name by a physical human form he wrestled with that the he testifies was not an angel , but was God Himself:

Gen 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

JESUS: “The Lord Saves”​

​

“She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

— Matthew 1:21

Do you know the meaning of your name? My name Kurt derives from the German name Konrad, which means "brave counsel; bold advice." I'm not sure, though, if my parents were thinking that name would describe me later in life!

Jesus, however, was named for what he would do for God's people. The Greek name Jesus is a translation of the Hebrew name Joshua, which can mean "the Lord is salvation," "the Lord saves," or "the Lord is my help."

 

[My Rock]

Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Along the lines of in what form, or forms was the Son capable of existing as prior to incarnation as well the question is the Son also God it is interesting to note that Jacob was given his new name by a physical human form he wrestled with that the he testifies was not an angel , but was God Himself:

Gen 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

The account of Jacob wrestling with God in Genesis 32:24-30 is deeply significant in understanding the nature of God’s manifestations and sheds light on your question about the Son's existence prior to the incarnation. Jacob’s declaration in Genesis 32:30, “I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved,” is especially profound because it reveals that God made Himself visible in a tangible, physical form. Let us carefully unpack this, particularly as it relates to the Son’s role and nature before the incarnation.

Jacob’s Encounter: A Physical Manifestation of God​

The physical form in which Jacob wrestled was not a created angelic being, as Jacob explicitly recognizes his opponent as God Himself. This "man" who wrestled with Jacob was a theophany—God manifesting Himself in a temporary, physical form to interact directly with humanity.

This moment reveals that while God is an eternal Spirit (John 4:24), He has, throughout history, chosen to manifest Himself in ways comprehensible to humanity. Such appearances, or theophanies, serve specific purposes, whether in the burning bush to Moses (Exodus 3:2-4), as a fourth figure "like the Son of God" in the fiery furnace (Daniel 3:25), or here, in wrestling with Jacob.

Jacob’s wrestling with God foreshadows the fuller and permanent manifestation of God in the flesh through Jesus Christ. In this interaction, Jacob’s name is changed to Israel, symbolizing transformation and covenant—precisely the kind of transformation God intended to bring to humanity through the incarnation.

The Son's Form Prior to the Incarnation​

Theologically, the Son did not exist as a distinct person or separate being prior to the incarnation. The term Son of God refers specifically to God manifest in the flesh (John 1:14, Galatians 4:4). Before the incarnation, God existed solely as Spirit, eternally one, without division or distinction into persons.

However, God’s Logos—His self-expression, thought, or plan—was eternal. John 1:1 declares: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The Word was not a separate person but God Himself, His mind and purpose, always ready to be expressed.

When Jacob wrestled with God, this was not the pre-incarnate Son but rather God choosing to reveal Himself in a temporary, physical form. Such theophanies served specific purposes in history but were not permanent embodiments of God as Jesus Christ would later be.

Is the Son Also God?​

Yes, the Son is God because the Son is the visible, tangible manifestation of the one true God. However, it is essential to emphasize that the Sonship began with the incarnation, as Luke 1:35 clarifies: “That holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

Before the incarnation, God was not yet operating in the role of the Son, but He always had the plan to manifest Himself in this way. This is why 1 Peter 1:20 says that Jesus was “foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” The Sonship is tied to the incarnation—the eternal Spirit of God stepping into human history as a man.

God's Direct Involvement in Reconciliation​

Your reference to Jacob’s experience highlights an important principle: God does not delegate His work of salvation to another. Just as God personally wrestled with Jacob and brought about a transformation, He Himself came in the flesh to wrestle with sin and redeem humanity.

This is consistent with Scriptures like Isaiah 43:11: “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.” If reconciliation were to occur, God would not send a representative or a subordinate being or another person of a Trinity. Instead, He would come Himself, as Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 5:19: “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.” It doesn't say that: Jesus Christ was, but God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself (God).

The Son is not a separate entity within a Godhead; rather, the Son is the flesh through which the invisible God made Himself visible and accessible and known to humanity. Jesus is the permanent and eternal, embodied reality of what Jacob only glimpsed temporarily in his wrestling match—a God who desires personal relationship and direct involvement with His people.

Conclusion: God’s Self-Revelation in Both Theophany and Incarnation​

Jacob’s wrestling with God points us to the truth that God has always desired to reveal Himself and engage with humanity. Before the incarnation, God occasionally appeared in temporary forms (theophanies) for specific purposes. These manifestations, while real, were not the Son but rather previews of the ultimate revelation of God in Jesus Christ.

In the incarnation, the eternal Logos—the same God Jacob encountered—took on human nature permanently, fulfilling His plan of salvation. Jesus Christ is not another person within the Godhead but the fullness of the one true God made flesh (Colossians 2:9). The Son did not exist before the incarnation as a distinct form or entity but came into existence in time when the eternal God took on flesh. Thus, the God who wrestled with Jacob and transformed him is the same God who came in the flesh of Jesus Christ to transform all of humanity through His life, death, and resurrection.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That Gabriel said Jesus would be call the Son of God does not preclude the Son of God from preexisting.

Why is it that you still haven't addressed most of what I have stated?

Who was the pre-existent Son of God's/Jesus' mom ?
Sons need mothers

 

[Consecrated Life]

The account of Jacob wrestling with God in Genesis 32:24-30 is deeply significant in understanding the nature of God’s manifestations and sheds light on your question about the Son's existence prior to the incarnation. Jacob’s declaration in Genesis 32:30, “I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved,” is especially profound because it reveals that God made Himself visible in a tangible, physical form. Let us carefully unpack this, particularly as it relates to the Son’s role and nature before the incarnation.

Jacob’s Encounter: A Physical Manifestation of God​

The physical form in which Jacob wrestled was not a created angelic being, as Jacob explicitly recognizes his opponent as God Himself. This "man" who wrestled with Jacob was a theophany—God manifesting Himself in a temporary, physical form to interact directly with humanity.

We can only "unpack" what we are told ,yes ?
To me there is something about Jacobs encounter that seems withheld from us .
Is it possible that God sometimes chooses not to give us every detail in His Word?
Jacob's questioning of the man he is wrestling with , questioning that is never answered during the extended wrestling match by the way, clearly shows he has no real sense of who this is he is grappling with .
Absolutely no sense that this is God Himself, no less.
Grappling not for 5 or 10 minutes, but for hours .
Yet at the same time we can see from Jacob's asking for a Blessing that he clearly understands this is a Spiritual as well as a physical encounter.
My question has always been how can hours of wrestling with God in close contact be wholly inadequate in answering Jacob's questioning of identity, clearly showing Jacob wonders if this an angel perhaps , and yet at the end of it, with still no firm answer coming forth from this wrestling opponent about His identity , Jacob has somehow become certain that He has "seen" God , without any mention of the hours long physical encounter .
a description of the encounter that brings a totally separate question in my mind.

If you and I were in an extended wrestling match in which you received a lifelong disabling injury, would you describe the wrestling match to another person exclusively in terms of having "seen" me ?

Void of any answer of identity from his wrestling opponent what caused Jacob to go from not having a clue one moment , to being absolutely certain he had "seen" God the next moment?
What possible reason would there be for God withholding His name from Jacob ?

Gen 32:29
¶
And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

 

[Free]

The Son's Form Prior to the Incarnation
Theologically, the Son did not exist as a distinct person . . . prior to the incarnation.

He certainly did.

The term Son of God refers specifically to God manifest in the flesh (John 1:14, Galatians 4:4). Before the incarnation, God existed solely as Spirit, eternally one, without division or distinction into persons.

The Son has always existed as the Son, distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit, all being the one God.

However, God’s Logos—His self-expression, thought, or plan—was eternal. John 1:1 declares: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The Word was not a separate person but God Himself, His mind and purpose, always ready to be expressed.

The Word is the pre-incarnate Son, a distinct person from the Father.

Is the Son Also God?​

Yes, the Son is God because the Son is the visible, tangible manifestation of the one true God. However, it is essential to emphasize that the Sonship began with the incarnation, as Luke 1:35 clarifies: “That holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

That does not preclude him from being the Son beforehand. It is simply stating the title he is to be known by.

Before the incarnation, God was not yet operating in the role of the Son,

Because it isn't a role; the Son is a distinct person.

but He always had the plan to manifest Himself in this way. This is why 1 Peter 1:20 says that Jesus was “foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” The Sonship is tied to the incarnation—the eternal Spirit of God stepping into human history as a man.

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Joh 16:27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
Joh 16:28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.”

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
...
Joh 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
...
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he [God] says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
...
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

(All ESV.)

There is only one logical conclusion: the Son has always existed. If not, all those verses are false.

In the incarnation, the eternal Logos—the same God Jacob encountered—took on human nature permanently, fulfilling His plan of salvation. Jesus Christ is not another person within the Godhead but the fullness of the one true God made flesh (Colossians 2:9). The Son did not exist before the incarnation as a distinct form or entity but came into existence in time when the eternal God took on flesh.

Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (ESV)

The context of Col. 2:9 clearly shows that the Son has always existed. If not, the above verses are false.

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)

Again, either Jesus (the Son) was involved in the creation of all things or that verse is false.

Which leads to:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
...
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
...
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (ESV)

Verses 1-3 and 10 support all the other verses above, and verse 14 shows that it was the Word who became flesh. Given that the Son was said to be the one through whom God created everything, the only logical conclusion is that the Word was the pre-incarnate Son.