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Is Jesus God Almighty, Everlasting Father?

Is Jesus God Almighty, Everlasting Father?

  • Yes, Jesus is God Almighty, the Everlasting Father.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, Jesus is God Almighty, but not the Everlasting Father

    Votes: 9 100.0%
  • Total voters
    9
Just as I suspected. Don't really have an answer to these questions. And I've noticed that none of the rest of those that say that Jesus is God do either. Funny, if it's 'my' understanding that is skewed, why is it that those that believe Jesus is God are the ones that have a problem answering these few questions. I understand EXACTLY what the answer is. So, how much more receptive to the Word do 'I' need to be?

And lecoop,

It's not a matter of 'how hard it is 'to believe'. It's much more a matter of 'believing the right thing'. I keep being 'fed' the understanding of 'men' concerning the relationship of Father and Son. Why is it 'so hard' for men to simply accept what has been offered by God and His Son through the Word? Always remember, "Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life and few there be that find it". According to this Catholic concept of Christ AS God, almost the 'entire' Christian community has bought into this 'man-made' doctrine. Doesn't sound like a few to me, sounds like a 'bunch' of,,,,,,,,,,, them have.

Guys, it's not 'me' that seems to have a problem with the Word. I accept what has been delivered through It. It's those that accept what others have 'taught' them that seem to have the problem with interpretation. You are the ones that can't accept scripture that 'hasn't' been explained to you yet. I have offered a bit and there's lots more where they came from. I am plenty capable of understanding and 'through fasting and prayer' much has been offered 'beyond' my understanding. NO, not three in one, oneness, or 'trinity'. The simplicity that is in Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

I know how difficult it is to 'claim' to be a Christian in our world today and NOT believe in this 'trinity' Jesus is God thing. I get it, I really do. But, I believe that if one were to divorce themselves from the 'world' and read 'with the understanding', the Spirit will plainly offer the 'truth' of Father and Son. As a matter of fact, I believe that it takes the 'extra' work to read 'trinity' into the Bible than to simply take from the Word what is offered.
 
Imagican said:
Just as I suspected. Don't really have an answer to these questions. And I've noticed that none of the rest of those that say that Jesus is God do either. Funny, if it's 'my' understanding that is skewed, why is it that those that believe Jesus is God are the ones that have a problem answering these few questions. I understand EXACTLY what the answer is. So, how much more receptive to the Word do 'I' need to be?

And lecoop,

It's not a matter of 'how hard it is 'to believe'. It's much more a matter of 'believing the right thing'. I keep being 'fed' the understanding of 'men' concerning the relationship of Father and Son. Why is it 'so hard' for men to simply accept what has been offered by God and His Son through the Word? Always remember, "Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life and few there be that find it". According to this Catholic concept of Christ AS God, almost the 'entire' Christian community has bought into this 'man-made' doctrine. Doesn't sound like a few to me, sounds like a 'bunch' of,,,,,,,,,,, them have.

Guys, it's not 'me' that seems to have a problem with the Word. I accept what has been delivered through It. It's those that accept what others have 'taught' them that seem to have the problem with interpretation. You are the ones that can't accept scripture that 'hasn't' been explained to you yet. I have offered a bit and there's lots more where they came from. I am plenty capable of understanding and 'through fasting and prayer' much has been offered 'beyond' my understanding. NO, not three in one, oneness, or 'trinity'. The simplicity that is in Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

I know how difficult it is to 'claim' to be a Christian in our world today and NOT believe in this 'trinity' Jesus is God thing. I get it, I really do. But, I believe that if one were to divorce themselves from the 'world' and read 'with the understanding', the Spirit will plainly offer the 'truth' of Father and Son. As a matter of fact, I believe that it takes the 'extra' work to read 'trinity' into the Bible than to simply take from the Word what is offered.
Click to expand...
Who was Jesus the Son prior to him being the Son?
 
Re: 3 but one

lecoop said:
Zakariyaa

Suppose for a moment that the Word is true. It has the power to separate the soul and the spirit.

Now stand still, and we will separate you with the word:

You are a physical body: you came into the world by way of water: physical birth.

You are a spirit man, created to live forever: "I keep my body under."

You also are a living soul: "the soul that sins - it shall die."

Why is 3 in one so hard to believe, when you are a copy? God is three in one. However, being God, He can separate Himself. Jesus (the redeemer from the Old Covenant) took on flesh of man. But who was he, really? He was God. The Holy Spirit descended down upon Him. God the Father spoke from heaven.

Man:.........God:
Spirit ........The Holy Spirit
Soul..........The Father
Body.........The Son


Now, is your spirit man you? Of course!
Is your soul (mind - will - emotions) you? Of course!
Is your body you? Of course! No one else lives there!

Coop
Click to expand...




OverStand Something If You Can .. If Yashua Was God Then Who Was He Praying To Himself . And If He Was God Their Wouldn't Be No Need For Him To Pray . The First Teaching Was Yashua Was The Son Of Yahua Then Some Among You Trun Him Into God Himself . Again Their No Way To Have A Trinity .

There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing , In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son . This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One..
 
Solo,

(Just substitute 'Father' everywhere that I have 'used' God).

I know your belief and understanding. I don't know whether it is based solely on your study and walk or if it is tainted with the teachings of men. I do not offer that 'you' are wrong.

But in answer to your question. Perhaps Jesus was the Son of God before given an earthly body. I would say that we are all sons and daughters of God. But, perhaps the reason for the distinction between sons and Son is that Christ was the 'first' created in His image. That, since man was created 'for' Christ, perhaps Christ was the 'first' created in such an image.

I don't KNOW the answer to 'everything' and don't propose that I must in order to accept what God and His Son have offered. One day we will ALL know. But, for Christ to be our mediator, He MUST be separate in entity from God. If God can ONLY see us through Christ, Christ MUST be a separate entity than God.

So, I offer: Who insists that Christ MUST be God? Who taught this to mankind? I can say in all honesty that the influence that 'man' has had on my understanding of God has been very very limited. I haven't been to 'school' to study theology. I wasn't 'saved' by a church. What I know is what has been revealed to me through the Word and, perhaps, God Himself. (Not bragging, just stating things as I understand them). And it has NEVER been revealed to me that Jesus IS God.

And, except for what the churches have taught, I don't see in the Word where anything close to Jesus IS God is in existence. I have studied the 'teachings' of Jesus IS God and find them totally biased. Even the method of 'their' teaching was 'against' the Bible itself. I don't honestly believe that God would choose a group of people to murder those that refused to accept their teaching of Salvation. Just don't make NO sense.

That the majority in the Christian community accept this man-made doctrine doesn't surprise me in the least though. Man has been creating his own gods way before our written history so the perpetuation of it doesn't even make me wonder.

What we have, in my opinion, are man; with his understanding, and God; with THE understanding. And often times man's unwillingness to 'accept' that he may not be able to understand 'everything' and for this reason allowing his overpowering will to 'be right' and 'know everything' to often taint his understanding and refuse to face the fact or let this get in the way of 'what he thinks'.

I have asked it on EVERY 'Jesus is God' type thread that I have posted on and have yet to get answers to just a 'few' questions that I have asked. Maybe you can offer an explanation that I can understand. If Jesus IS God, then why did He ask His Father to forgive those that murdered Him? If Jesus IS God, then why would He have asked, 'let this cup pass over me'? When asked of His return, why would Christ state that ONLY the Father knew the answer to this question. If Christ WERE God, wouldn't He TOO have known what God knows? And why would Satan tempt Christ? Didn't Satan too, call Jesus the Son of God? Isn't Satan's battle NOW with the Son of God that defeated death?

If one is to insist that Jesus IS God and accuse those that don't 'see this' of being heretics, then I think that they should have some pretty good answers to these questions that I have posed. What do you think?
 
Re: 3 but one

Zakariyaa said:
lecoop said:
Zakariyaa

Suppose for a moment that the Word is true. It has the power to separate the soul and the spirit.

Now stand still, and we will separate you with the word:

You are a physical body: you came into the world by way of water: physical birth.

You are a spirit man, created to live forever: "I keep my body under."

You also are a living soul: "the soul that sins - it shall die."

Why is 3 in one so hard to believe, when you are a copy? God is three in one. However, being God, He can separate Himself. Jesus (the redeemer from the Old Covenant) took on flesh of man. But who was he, really? He was God. The Holy Spirit descended down upon Him. God the Father spoke from heaven.

Man:.........God:
Spirit ........The Holy Spirit
Soul..........The Father
Body.........The Son


Now, is your spirit man you? Of course!
Is your soul (mind - will - emotions) you? Of course!
Is your body you? Of course! No one else lives there!

Coop
Click to expand...




OverStand Something If You Can .. If Yashua Was God Then Who Was He Praying To Himself . And If He Was God Their Wouldn't Be No Need For Him To Pray . The First Teaching Was Yashua Was The Son Of Yahua Then Some Among You Trun Him Into God Himself . Again Their No Way To Have A Trinity .

You do err through lack of understanding. God the Father had a perfect right to call the man, Jesus, His son, since God the Father created body that the son (the Redeemer from the Old Covenant) would inhabit. However, the life in that body, was none other than the second part of God Himself: the one we see here:

Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Psalm 78:35
And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

Proverbs 23:11
For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.

Isaiah 43:14
Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
Click to expand...

He was indeed praying to Himself! However, at this point in time, The Redeemer had devested Himself of His Godly attributes to become man. At that point in time, He, Jesus, was not omnipresent! He could only be one place at a time. He was not all knowing, since He laid that ability aside to become man. However, He was still the second person of the Godhead, just as your body is your second person. Can your body speak to your spirit? Absolutely! You can say, "spirit man, let's praise God!"

While part of God was living as a man, He had every right to pray to the rest of Himself that was residing on the throne in heaven. He prayed for wisdom, for example, who to pick for His disciples. He had to, because He had laid aside the Godly attribute of being all knowing. While living as a man, that part of God could know only what the Holy Spirit would speak to him by revelation knowledge.

Yes, "Yashua Was The Son Of Yahua." But this was speaking of the man - the flesh and blood body of Jesus. God had every right to call him "son," since HE created the male sperm that created the body. However, the same word that calls him "son" also says, "before Abraham was, I AM!" How could any man say that? Only because the life in that fleshly body was the very personage that spoke to Abraham:

[quote:04d8b]Genesis 12
1Now the LORD had said unto Abram...
Click to expand...



There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing ,

You are correct here. But we did not do this "separation:" The Word of God does it for us.

In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son .

Again, you err because you do not separate the fleshly man from the life in the man. God simply created a body, then put part of Himself into that body to become the life in it and of it. When Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM," He was proving that He was the very God of Genesis. When John said that nothing was created without Him, referring to Jesus, again we see that the life in Jesus was God Himself, and was before creation.

This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One..[/quote:04d8b]

Again, how can you say that, when you are a three part being also, created in His image? Are you three men? No, you are one man, made up of a spirit man, with a soul, and living in a fleshly body.
Coop
 
Re: 3 but one

lecoop said:
Zakariyaa said:
lecoop said:
Zakariyaa

Suppose for a moment that the Word is true. It has the power to separate the soul and the spirit.

Now stand still, and we will separate you with the word:

You are a physical body: you came into the world by way of water: physical birth.

You are a spirit man, created to live forever: "I keep my body under."

You also are a living soul: "the soul that sins - it shall die."

Why is 3 in one so hard to believe, when you are a copy? God is three in one. However, being God, He can separate Himself. Jesus (the redeemer from the Old Covenant) took on flesh of man. But who was he, really? He was God. The Holy Spirit descended down upon Him. God the Father spoke from heaven.

Man:.........God:
Spirit ........The Holy Spirit
Soul..........The Father
Body.........The Son


Now, is your spirit man you? Of course!
Is your soul (mind - will - emotions) you? Of course!
Is your body you? Of course! No one else lives there!

Coop
Click to expand...




OverStand Something If You Can .. If Yashua Was God Then Who Was He Praying To Himself . And If He Was God Their Wouldn't Be No Need For Him To Pray . The First Teaching Was Yashua Was The Son Of Yahua Then Some Among You Trun Him Into God Himself . Again Their No Way To Have A Trinity .

You do err through lack of understanding. God the Father had a perfect right to call the man, Jesus, His son, since God the Father created body that the son (the Redeemer from the Old Covenant) would inhabit. However, the life in that body, was none other than the second part of God Himself: the one we see here:

Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Psalm 78:35
And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

Proverbs 23:11
For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.

Isaiah 43:14
Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
Click to expand...

He was indeed praying to Himself! However, at this point in time, The Redeemer had devested Himself of His Godly attributes to become man. At that point in time, He, Jesus, was not omnipresent! He could only be one place at a time. He was not all knowing, since He laid that ability aside to become man. However, He was still the second person of the Godhead, just as your body is your second person. Can your body speak to your spirit? Absolutely! You can say, "spirit man, let's praise God!"

While part of God was living as a man, He had every right to pray to the rest of Himself that was residing on the throne in heaven. He prayed for wisdom, for example, who to pick for His disciples. He had to, because He had laid aside the Godly attribute of being all knowing. While living as a man, that part of God could know only what the Holy Spirit would speak to him by revelation knowledge.

Yes, "Yashua Was The Son Of Yahua." But this was speaking of the man - the flesh and blood body of Jesus. God had every right to call him "son," since HE created the male sperm that created the body. However, the same word that calls him "son" also says, "before Abraham was, I AM!" How could any man say that? Only because the life in that fleshly body was the very personage that spoke to Abraham:

[quote:2ace4]Genesis 12
1Now the LORD had said unto Abram...
Click to expand...



There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing ,

You are correct here. But we did not do this "separation:" The Word of God does it for us.

In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son .

Again, you err because you do not separate the fleshly man from the life in the man. God simply created a body, then put part of Himself into that body to become the life in it and of it. When Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM," He was proving that He was the very God of Genesis. When John said that nothing was created without Him, referring to Jesus, again we see that the life in Jesus was God Himself, and was before creation.

This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One..
Click to expand...

Again, how can you say that, when you are a three part being also, created in His image? Are you three men? No, you are one man, made up of a spirit man, with a soul, and living in a fleshly body.
Coop
[/quote:2ace4]


Have A Question For You Ok .

Exacrly Which One Persons Is In The Image Of God ?
 
It is the man of the Spirit (born of the Holy Spirit) who is made in the image of God. As the scripture says the Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing.
 
In His Image

Genesis 1
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Click to expand...

Adam was made in God's image. However, we read "let them" so this could refer to the whole race, or to Adam and Eve. Did Jesus have dominion over the fish of the sea? Yes. Jesus came from the line of Judah. Therefore, it is most likely that this reference in Genesis was to refer to Adam and Eve in particular, but mankind in general; the whole race. Therefore, we all are created in His image. Just what is His image? I think first and formost, it is the image of authority: God created us to have authority. Other than this, God was not specific. However, we notice the plural form here: "let us." We see in God a plurality way back in Genesis.

This plurality continues throughout the bible.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Click to expand...

It is from verses like this that we know that there is a "godhead." When Paul makes a statement like, "I keep my body under," we see that we are a plurality also. This is something a child can understand.

Coop
 
Re: In His Image

lecoop said:
Genesis 1
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Click to expand...

Adam was made in God's image. However, we read "let them" so this could refer to the whole race, or to Adam and Eve. Did Jesus have dominion over the fish of the sea? Yes. Jesus came from the line of Judah. Therefore, it is most likely that this reference in Genesis was to refer to Adam and Eve in particular, but mankind in general; the whole race. Therefore, we all are created in His image. Just what is His image? I think first and formost, it is the image of authority: God created us to have authority. Other than this, God was not specific. However, we notice the plural form here: "let us." We see in God a plurality way back in Genesis.

This plurality continues throughout the bible.
[quote:d9cef]Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Click to expand...

It is from verses like this that we know that there is a "godhead." When Paul makes a statement like, "I keep my body under," we see that we are a plurality also. This is something a child can understand.

Coop[/quote:d9cef]




Exactly Which One Persons Is In The Image Of God ?


If Man Was Created In The Image And After The Likeness Of ( The One God ) As You Find In Genesis 1; 26 . Where It Says And I Quote ; '' Let Us Make Man In Our Image And After Our Likeness '' And Everybody LQQks Different ( Except For Identical Twins , Etc .. ) Then Either The God Of The Bible Is Confused About The Way He LQQKs Or The Image Of God Is Constantly Changing Or There Is More Than One God . The Word Used In Aramic ( Hebrew )

For '' Image '' Is Tselem - Meaning '' Resemblance , Semblance '' And Then The Aramic
( Hebrew ) Word Used For '' Likeness '' Is Demuwth '' Meaning '' To Be Like Someone Or Something , To Resemble , To Compare To , '' Now If Man Was Created In The Likeness And After The Image Of God And That Means That Man Is Like God In All Ways And All Maners , And Sine People LQQK Different . They Range In Features , Shapes , Sizes , And Many Characteristics , So Which One Man Has The Image And Likeness Of God ?


Another Question If I May ;
If All Human Beings Came From '' Adam '' Then Shouldn't Everyone On The Planet Earth Have The Same Blood Type ?
 
Re: In His Image

Zakariyaa said:
Exactly Which One Persons Is In The Image Of God ?


If Man Was Created In The Image And After The Likeness Of ( The One God ) As You Find In Genesis 1; 26 . Where It Says And I Quote ; '' Let Us Make Man In Our Image And After Our Likeness '' And Everybody LQQks Different ( Except For Identical Twins , Etc .. ) Then Either The God Of The Bible Is Confused About The Way He LQQKs Or The Image Of God Is Constantly Changing Or There Is More Than One God . The Word Used In Aramic ( Hebrew )

For '' Image '' Is Tselem - Meaning '' Resemblance , Semblance '' And Then The Aramic
( Hebrew ) Word Used For '' Likeness '' Is Demuwth '' Meaning '' To Be Like Someone Or Something , To Resemble , To Compare To , '' Now If Man Was Created In The Likeness And After The Image Of God And That Means That Man Is Like God In All Ways And All Maners , And Sine People LQQK Different . They Range In Features , Shapes , Sizes , And Many Characteristics , So Which One Man Has The Image And Likeness Of God ?


Another Question If I May ;
If All Human Beings Came From '' Adam '' Then Shouldn't Everyone On The Planet Earth Have The Same Blood Type ?
Click to expand...

I believe you read too much into "image" and "likeness." Perhaps, as I suggested, all God meant by this is that we are a three part being, just as He is; a being with body, soul and spirit: a being created with dominion: "and let them have dominion."

Notice the next time this word is used:

Genesis 5:3
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
Click to expand...

Did Seth look exactly like Adam? It is very doubtful. There was probably a family resemblance, just as we see today. However, Seth was a triune being just as Adam was: a spirit being with a soul, and living in a body. Therefore, we all have the likeness of God. The double helix DNA molecule can hold an unbelievable amount of imformation; enough, as we can see, to have vast differences in the appearances in people, including many blood types. However, from the Eskimo of Alaska to the aboriginy of Australia, all people are triune beings, created as a spirit being, possesing a soul, and living in a flesh and blood body.

Coop
 
To All,
Jesus is the Father, because He knew before hand that Peter would deny Him. No one knows the future except the Father. The Lord as the Father allowed temptations unto Himself, so that His Human may be glorified in the end. The passion of the cross was His last temptation. He allowed Himself to be tempted, He won the battle. This had to be done in order for His Human to be united with the Divine in Himself called the Father. The Lord became fully God. His temptations and fighting against hell was redemption, not the passion of the cross. The cross was His last temptation.The death on the cross wasn't to take away our sins. It was to glorified His Human and united it with the Divine in Himself called the Father.

Harry :fadein:
 
Hi Harry, you need to go back to the drawing board. 8-) You posted a lot of "stuff' there, but with no scriptual support. I see we are still adhering to the idea that Jesus is the Father.

Well, who is He speaking about here?

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

So, is this "Father" just a imaginary person Jesus thought up? I believe the scriptures presented show God as two seperate persons, Father and Son; co-existing in the Godhead. Either that or Jesus was delusional. Plus, we haven't even touched on the Spirit. That is best left for another thread.


Jesus knew only what the Father revealed to Him:

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus did die for our sins:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Harry, why would the Father allow Himself to be tempted, when He doesn't liked to be tempted in the first place? It was His Son and not the Father that was tempted in the desert wilderness.

Looking at scripture describing the Godhead from a triune perspective resolves many issues that cannot be explained any other way, IMO and understanting of Scripture.
 
Vic said:
Hi Harry, you need to go back to the drawing board. 8-) You posted a lot of "stuff' there, but with no scriptual support. I see we are still adhering to the idea that Jesus is the Father.

Well, who is He speaking about here?

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

So, is this "Father" just a imaginary person Jesus thought up? I believe the scriptures presented show God as two seperate persons, Father and Son; co-existing in the Godhead. Either that or Jesus was delusional. Plus, we haven't even touched on the Spirit. That is best left for another thread.


Jesus knew only what the Father revealed to Him:

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus did die for our sins:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Harry, why would the Father allow Himself to be tempted, when He doesn't liked to be tempted in the first place? It was His Son and not the Father that was tempted in the desert wilderness.

Looking at scripture describing the Godhead from a triune perspective resolves many issues that cannot be explained any other way, IMO and understanting of Scripture.
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The Lord when in the world spoke by correspondences, that He spoke spiritually while He spoke naturally, is evident from His parables, in each and every word of which there is a spiritual sense. Take for example the parable of the ten virgins:
The kingdom of the heavens is like unto ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom; five of them were wise, and five were foolish; they that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil, but the wise took oil in their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried they all slumbered and slept; and at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh, go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins awaked, and trimmed their lamps; and the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil, for our lamps are gone out; but the wise answered, saying, Not so, lest there be not enough for us and you; but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went away to buy, the bridegroom came, and they that were ready went in with him to the wedding, and the door was shut. Afterwards came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, lord, open to us; but he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not Matthew 25:1-12.

That there is a spiritual sense in each and every one of these things, and a consequent Divine holiness, can be seen by him only who knows that a spiritual sense exists, and what is its nature. In the spiritual sense, the "kingdom of God" means heaven and the church; the "bridegroom," the Lord; the "wedding," the marriage of the Lord with heaven and the church by means of the good of love and of faith. "Virgins" signify those who are of the church; "ten," all; "five," some; "lamps," the truths of faith; "oil," the good of love; to "sleep," and to "awake," the life of man in this world which is natural life, and his life after death which is spiritual; to "buy," to procure for themselves; to "go to them that sell and buy oil," to procure for themselves the good of love from others after death; and as this can then be no longer procured, although they came with their lamps and the oil they had bought to the door where the wedding was, yet the bridegroom said to them "I know you not." The reason is that after his life in this world a man remains such as he had lived in this world.

From all this it is evident that the Lord spoke exclusively by correspondences, and this because He spoke from the Divine that was in Him, and was His. That the "bridegroom" signifies the Lord; the "kingdom of the heavens," the church; a "wedding," the marriage of the Lord with the church by means of the good of love and of faith; "ten," all; "five," some; to "sleep," a natural state; to "buy," to procure for one's self; a "door," entrance into heaven; and "not to know them," when spoken by the Lord, not to be in His love, is evident from many passages in the prophetic Word where these expressions have a like signification. It is because "virgins" signify those who are of the church that the virgin and daughter of Zion, of Jerusalem, of Judah, and of Israel are so often mentioned in the prophetic Word. And it is because "oil" signifies the good of love that all the holy things of the Israelitish church were anointed with oil. It is the same with all the other parables, and with all the words the Lord spoke, and that were written in the Gospels. This is why the Lord says that
His words are spirit and are life John 6:63.

It is the same with all the Lord's miracles, which were Divine because they signified the various states of those with whom the church was to be set up anew by the Lord. Thus when the blind received sight, it signified that they who had been in ignorance of truth should receive intelligence; when the deaf received hearing, it signified that they who had previously heard nothing about the Lord and the Word should hearken and obey; when the dead were raised, it signified that they who otherwise would spiritually perish would become living; and so on. This is meant by the Lord's reply to the disciples of John, who sent them to ask whether He was the one that should come:
Tell John the things which ye do hear and see: the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead rise again, and the poor hear the gospel (Matthew 11:3-5).
Moreover, all the miracles related in the Word contain in them such things as belong to the Lord, to heaven, and to the church. This makes these miracles Divine, and distinguishes them from those which are not Divine. These few examples are given in order to illustrate what the spiritual sense is, and to show that it is in all things of the Word and in every particular of it.

Harry :fadein:
 
Free said:
SS said:
Jesus is Our Father
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And just how is Jesus his own Father and his own Son? How can a father be his own son and a son be his own father? Do you see how irrational and illogical that is?

As is to the Soul of Jesus Christ, He is the Father. The Father assumed a Human, under the name Jesus Christ

SS said:
There is no such thing as an Eternal Son
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Then there is no such that as an Eternal Father.
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Free,
The Son of God was never until Jehovah the Father became Man under the name Jesus Christ.

The expressions "In that day," and "in that time," written in many place in the Old Testament, means the advent of Jehovah God the father into this world.
It shall be said "in that day," this is our God; we have waited for Him that He may deliver us; This is Jehovah, we have waited for Him; we will rejoice and be glad in His salvation (Isaiah 25:9).

Harry :fadein:
 
Hi all,

I haven't been to this forum for quite a while. Glad to see this thread is still going! 64% of those voting accepting Oneness doctrine is great news! peace, Michael
 
Michael A Disciple said:
Hi all,

I haven't been to this forum for quite a while. Glad to see this thread is still going! 64% of those voting accepting Oneness doctrine is great news! peace, Michael
Click to expand...

So, extending that out to two thirds of the world's 'Christians' (which is about 33% of the world's population) that means that about 22% of the worlds population believe this. Pretty good numbers until you discover that about the same number is muslim. So I guess weight of numbers does not necessarily mean one is right huh. :-?
 
SpiritualSon said:
To All,
Jesus is the Father, because He knew before hand that Peter would deny Him. No one knows the future except the Father. The Lord as the Father allowed temptations unto Himself, so that His Human may be glorified in the end. The passion of the cross was His last temptation. He allowed Himself to be tempted, He won the battle. This had to be done in order for His Human to be united with the Divine in Himself called the Father. The Lord became fully God. His temptations and fighting against hell was redemption, not the passion of the cross. The cross was His last temptation.The death on the cross wasn't to take away our sins. It was to glorified His Human and united it with the Divine in Himself called the Father.

Harry :fadein:
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If this 'assumption' were true, then explain why Christ, when asked of His return stated, that only the Father Himself knew of the time of His return?
 
I've seen polls like this before and I know just the way to handle it
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