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Is man not really capable of seeking God?

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
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Yes, Calvinist are a sorry lot. I pity them.

Jesus did not instruct anyone to let His example of children inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven mean whatever they want it to mean. He limited the example of children to mean only humility and simple acceptance of Jesus.

Do not read your own thoughts into the text of Scripture.

Do you have a scripture that portrays your opinion about children which is limited to “only and simple acceptance of Jesus”.


Where did you come up with the idea that Jesus limited His example of children to mean only humility and simple acceptance of Jesus?




JLB
 

Jacob62

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Do you have a scripture that portrays your opinion about children which is limited to “only and simple acceptance of Jesus”.


Where did you come up with the idea that Jesus limited His example of children to mean only humility and simple acceptance of Jesus?




JLB
What else does Jesus speaking referring children? It is wise to ask this of God.

"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child.". Prov. 22:15. Are you rejoicing in this answer from God's Word? Yes?
 

PeterJens

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Do you follow all of Jesus' Commands? You either do, or do not. Nothing in Scripture talks about "trying."
I see you wish to make me judge myself.
Paul faced a similar logic. And Pauls answer was he did not judge himself, because it is for God to judge on the day of judgement the hearts of men.

If we follow love we fulfil the law. Maybe you are unaware of what love is?
When I have shared with some believers they talk like legalists, saying no man can walk like Jesus in perfection, but they do not know what love is so equally do not know what Jesus means.

What do you wish to prove by your questioning?
Somehow it is probably to justify yourself and your walk, your approach to Jesus, which if these other believers are to be understood is just cynicism and worldly outlooks.

Jesus came to show us the way. This way is the world of motivation and choice, putting first the reality of what is and its limits and accepting the position God has ordained for us, and rejoicing in His blessing. After many years I have been with believers who aspired to spiritual things yet fell in lust and adultery, because they could not face the truth of who we are and give up on the dreams of this world.

COVID should teach us all. We are men, limited in time and space, no better or worse than our fellow men, and in grace and humbleness we should consider others better than ourselves. True joy is found in the giving and receiving one another in love.

God bless you
 

Jacob62

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I see you wish to make me judge myself.
Paul faced a similar logic. And Pauls answer was he did not judge himself, because it is for God to judge on the day of judgement the hearts of men.

If we follow love we fulfil the law. Maybe you are unaware of what love is?
When I have shared with some believers they talk like legalists, saying no man can walk like Jesus in perfection, but they do not know what love is so equally do not know what Jesus means.

What do you wish to prove by your questioning?
Somehow it is probably to justify yourself and your walk, your approach to Jesus, which if these other believers are to be understood is just cynicism and worldly outlooks.

Jesus came to show us the way. This way is the world of motivation and choice, putting first the reality of what is and its limits and accepting the position God has ordained for us, and rejoicing in His blessing. After many years I have been with believers who aspired to spiritual things yet fell in lust and adultery, because they could not face the truth of who we are and give up on the dreams of this world.

COVID should teach us all. We are men, limited in time and space, no better or worse than our fellow men, and in grace and humbleness we should consider others better than ourselves. True joy is found in the giving and receiving one another in love.

God bless you
You are not qualified nor placed to speak what "We" are to realize or do. The axiomatic nature of truth is how your speech invariably demonstrates it, even as you try to deny it.

I see you are not a health care provider which must place themselves in the risk of death by "Having joy in receiving the victims of Covid." Your presumptive admonitions upon others to "receive others" having Covid is spurrious.

Try to learn more than what you boast of.
 

PeterJens

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Right.
In fact, Jesus did say that there's a price to be paid and to know this before declaring that we want to be a disciple of His.

Luke 14:27-30
27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29“Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
I read today some posts from an old poster, who still uses this analogy.
Gods gift of salvation cannot be destroyed by sinning.

It made me think of emotional language and linear logic that justifies it.
The emotional language is God can be trusted and He has given me His eternal life.
To undermine this is a terrible thing, and evil.

But unfortunately the salvation we are given is an open door, and an invitation to get up, walk and follow.
The emotional language of trust and love is real, but only for those who see its meaning, and put it into effect by doing as we are told. We grow and become children of God, born, and develop as we exercise the Holy Spirit working in our hearts. The world is governed by raging emotion, which comes and goes without knowledge or understanding, that builds castles of sand, and dreams of the delusions of wealth, power and influence. Everything gets sacrificed for these stories, and in old age when they are gone, broken men die lost and empty.

A line these dreamers have come out with is we hate them, by sharing the need to see Jesus and follow, to gather the treasure of His words and live them out. But we are consumed with love, clarity and transformation, joy unspeakable and a future that is eternal. We just wonder that these words appear to some to be death to the heart, and discouragement to their lives, and just would dearly love healing and transformation happens to all.

These dreamers then rise up in anger, and shout blasphemy, sin worse than murder, apostacy, and anything they can invent to justify how they feel. The worst of it all is their emotional turmoil shouts their lostness and their lack of change or knowing the Lord of all, who came that we might live a loving quiet life, honouring and serving our King.

In the end it is not the possibility of us sinning or walking in darkness that dooms us, it is us not listening and letting Jesus change us through being yoked to Him and His ways. His words truly are life, are alive, are real and are eternal.

What in the world flips around like the wind, in the Kingdom is strong and hard, determined and distinct.
Peter in prison singing praises to God, waiting for the morning and his possible execution. Peter is freed by an angel, his heart simply set on Christ. We are such linear people, until we discover the work God has done within us, that will never die.

God bless you
 

Jacob62

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I read today some posts from an old poster, who still uses this analogy.
Gods gift of salvation cannot be destroyed by sinning.

It made me think of emotional language and linear logic that justifies it.
The emotional language is God can be trusted and He has given me His eternal life.
To undermine this is a terrible thing, and evil.

But unfortunately the salvation we are given is an open door, and an invitation to get up, walk and follow.
The emotional language of trust and love is real, but only for those who see its meaning, and put it into effect by doing as we are told. We grow and become children of God, born, and develop as we exercise the Holy Spirit working in our hearts. The world is governed by raging emotion, which comes and goes without knowledge or understanding, that builds castles of sand, and dreams of the delusions of wealth, power and influence. Everything gets sacrificed for these stories, and in old age when they are gone, broken men die lost and empty.

A line these dreamers have come out with is we hate them, by sharing the need to see Jesus and follow, to gather the treasure of His words and live them out. But we are consumed with love, clarity and transformation, joy unspeakable and a future that is eternal. We just wonder that these words appear to some to be death to the heart, and discouragement to their lives, and just would dearly love healing and transformation happens to all.

These dreamers then rise up in anger, and shout blasphemy, sin worse than murder, apostacy, and anything they can invent to justify how they feel. The worst of it all is their emotional turmoil shouts their lostness and their lack of change or knowing the Lord of all, who came that we might live a loving quiet life, honouring and serving our King.

In the end it is not the possibility of us sinning or walking in darkness that dooms us, it is us not listening and letting Jesus change us through being yoked to Him and His ways. His words truly are life, are alive, are real and are eternal.

What in the world flips around like the wind, in the Kingdom is strong and hard, determined and distinct.
Peter in prison singing praises to God, waiting for the morning and his possible execution. Peter is freed by an angel, his heart simply set on Christ. We are such linear people, until we discover the work God has done within us, that will never die.

God bless you
"In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin; but he that refraineth his lips is wise." Prov. 10:19.
 

PeterJens

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You are not qualified nor placed to speak what "We" are to realize or do. The axiomatic nature of truth is how your speech invariably demonstrates it, even as you try to deny it.

I see you are not a health care provider which must place themselves in the risk of death by "Having joy in receiving the victims of Covid." Your presumptive admonitions upon others to "receive others" having Covid is spurrious.

Try to learn more than what you boast of.
I sense a lot of feeling here. "we" "not qualified" "you boast"
God bless you my friend. I am who I am, and share as my heart leads me.

I am not sure what I need to be qualified in, other than being open and honest before the Lord.
Some find it hard to say the words "I love you" others do it as a true expression of who they are.

What did shake me up today was the accusation towards a loving believer in Christ that they hated this other believer.
I know what hate is that leads to death, and how it consumes some. The fact some accuse innocents of such feelings with no justification unfortunately demonstrates the very emotions running through them at the time.

I met one believer who claimed they were as much a sinner as any sinner on earth, and it was presumption to suggest anyone could be anything else. To me such language is one of a lunatic who has never been with truly evil violent people or known the evil some do. This idea of sinners as nice loving people who are socially aware comes from the middle class pretence of caring behaviour, without any reality, which is as dead as any social commentary could muster. As God declares of the laodicians, "I spew you out of my mouth, as you are neither hot nor cold but just luke warm."

God bless you
 

Jacob62

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I sense a lot of feeling here. "we" "not qualified" "you boast"
God bless you my friend. I am who I am, and share as my heart leads me.

I am not sure what I need to be qualified in, other than being open and honest before the Lord.
Some find it hard to say the words "I love you" others do it as a true expression of who they are.

What did shake me up today was the accusation towards a loving believer in Christ that they hated this other believer.
I know what hate is that leads to death, and how it consumes some. The fact some accuse innocents of such feelings with no justification unfortunately demonstrates the very emotions running through them at the time.

I met one believer who claimed they were as much a sinner as any sinner on earth, and it was presumption to suggest anyone could be anything else. To me such language is one of a lunatic who has never been with truly evil violent people or known the evil some do. This idea of sinners as nice loving people who are socially aware comes from the middle class pretence of caring behaviour, without any reality, which is as dead as any social commentary could muster. As God declares of the laodicians, "I spew you out of my mouth, as you are neither hot nor cold but just luke warm."

God bless you
No, "We," "Not qualified," and "You boast" are facts of what you wrote. No emotions are used to make those three observations of fact.

Apparently, you are confused about the real definition of emotion. Were you raised by a woman, perhaps, such that you think emotions are essential for basic thinking?
 

PeterJens

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"In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin; but he that refraineth his lips is wise." Prov. 10:19.
An enlightening comment on my sharing.
We truly live only in our own heads and see only what our hearts have eyes to see.

Stephen got fed up with the teachers of the law, who put Jesus to death, and God raised from the dead and changed the lives of the apostles, yet they still denied the truth in front of them. We are prisoners of our spiritual realities.

God bless you
 

Jacob62

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An enlightening comment on my sharing.
We truly live only in our own heads and see only what our hearts have eyes to see.

Stephen got fed up with the teachers of the law, who put Jesus to death, and God raised from the dead and changed the lives of the apostles, yet they still denied the truth in front of them. We are prisoners of our spiritual realities.

God bless you
Again, your repeated use here of "We" is counterproductive to any sort of ministry. Are you having trouble controlling what you actually say? I think you are.

You are free to declare you are a prisoner of your own spiritual perceptions. But, do not assume others are as you in that. Do you comprehend what I just said here? Maybe not? Are you stubborn today?
 

PeterJens

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No, "We," "Not qualified," and "You boast" are facts of what you wrote. No emotions are used to make those three observations of fact.

Apparently, you are confused about the real definition of emotion. Were you raised by a woman, perhaps, such that you think emotions are essential for basic thinking?

This is an interesting point. Emotion is our lives, whether we are aware of it or not.
Facts only have impact because we perceive their emotional significance.

Spiritual reality is only seen with a pure heart, confessed, cleansed and made whole, because only then can the realities of our existence truly be seen. Women are born linked in to their emotions, so often become enslaved, but men can choose to learn the language of emotion and learn to be aware of how it grounds everything we do.

This very conversation only exists because we are emotionally stable enough to have it, and happy enough in ourselves to exchange ideas. There are times when this is not so, and my motivation would stop me exchanging ideas with others who would not benefit or who may be destructive in their responses.

I did exchange ideas with one poster over years who was a right wing racist who held free grace theology and would happily blow people away linguistically and literally with the arsenal of guns. It was interesting how this brand of maleness was appealing to some, as a brave fighter for faith against 99% of the church they believed was lost.

Thinking is an analytical process to construct a view of the world that helps explain emotional reactions and in the process bring resolution and healing. For many unfortunately without Christ the opposite happens, and analytical processes destroy them in reliving ptsd trauma that is destructive as the original act that triggered it. One answer to this is to deny emotions and lock them away so deeply, one becomes this factual machine, which is only partly alive and partly real. This is certainly not the Kingdom of life Jesus came to bring us.

But for those trapped in this cage, I can only share there is hope, if you begin to listen to who and what you are with Jesus. God bless you
 

PeterJens

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Again, your repeated use here of "We" is counterproductive to any sort of ministry. Are you having trouble controlling what you actually say? I think you are.

You are free to declare you are a prisoner of your own spiritual perceptions. But, do not assume others are as you in that. Do you comprehend what I just said here? Maybe not? Are you stubborn today?
God bless you. I need to go to bed now, english summer time has begun. As I said, I do not really follow you, or your intent, but that is as it is. A good conversation is only achieved two ways.
 

Jacob62

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This is an interesting point. Emotion is our lives, whether we are aware of it or not.
Facts only have impact because we perceive their emotional significance.

Spiritual reality is only seen with a pure heart, confessed, cleansed and made whole, because only then can the realities of our existence truly be seen. Women are born linked in to their emotions, so often become enslaved, but men can choose to learn the language of emotion and learn to be aware of how it grounds everything we do.

This very conversation only exists because we are emotionally stable enough to have it, and happy enough in ourselves to exchange ideas. There are times when this is not so, and my motivation would stop me exchanging ideas with others who would not benefit or who may be destructive in their responses.

I did exchange ideas with one poster over years who was a right wing racist who held free grace theology and would happily blow people away linguistically and literally with the arsenal of guns. It was interesting how this brand of maleness was appealing to some, as a brave fighter for faith against 99% of the church they believed was lost.

Thinking is an analytical process to construct a view of the world that helps explain emotional reactions and in the process bring resolution and healing. For many unfortunately without Christ the opposite happens, and analytical processes destroy them in reliving ptsd trauma that is destructive as the original act that triggered it. One answer to this is to deny emotions and lock them away so deeply, one becomes this factual machine, which is only partly alive and partly real. This is certainly not the Kingdom of life Jesus came to bring us.

But for those trapped in this cage, I can only share there is hope, if you begin to listen to who and what you are with Jesus. God bless you
A pure heart has nothing to do with emotions. Another reminder is here for how you are not qualified to speak "Our" for other people. Try your best to remember.

Thank you for confirming how female sentiments formed your early personal training on how to think of all things. There is a far more valid esybif life available beyond such a background.

The Father had deliverance for you from bondage to feelings and intuitive notions.
 

Jacob62

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God bless you. I need to go to bed now, english summer time has begun. As I said, I do not really follow you, or your intent, but that is as it is. A good conversation is only achieved two ways.
Yes, it is easy to see how your dedication to soulish sentiments limits your understanding. Trust God with your mind, admit is renewed to overcome the slavery to emotions. He can deliver you completely if you seek Him.
 

JLB

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What else does Jesus speaking referring children? It is wise to ask this of God.

"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child.". Prov. 22:15. Are you rejoicing in this answer from God's Word? Yes?

Again, here is my question.


Where did you come up with the idea that Jesus limited His example of children to mean only humility and simple acceptance of Jesus?
 

Jacob62

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Again, here is my question.


Where did you come up with the idea that Jesus limited His example of children to mean only humility and simple acceptance of Jesus?
Try to read again my previous answer. It is there for your help to understand. Perhaps use your preferred dictionary for definition which seem puzzling.

Thanks again.
 

PeterJens

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A pure heart has nothing to do with emotions. Another reminder is here for how you are not qualified to speak "Our" for other people. Try your best to remember.

Thank you for confirming how female sentiments formed your early personal training on how to think of all things. There is a far more valid esybif life available beyond such a background.

The Father had deliverance for you from bondage to feelings and intuitive notions.
Everything we do is emotional. Walk into any psychiatric hospital and you will see the effects of emotional balance gone bad.

You talk as if you speak facts, yet deny this reality. I know the importance of balance with a family history of instability.

Maturity is founded to God's love ruling the heart. To be open, free and unbounded either one is totally repressed or living in balance with the Lord.

We stand at polar opposites. Everything else flows from this. When we meet the Lord face to face, either we are sorted or dead.

God bless you, and I truly mean this, emotionally and spiritually.
 

PeterJens

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Imagine a heart that is not moved by trauma or disaster all around. The loss of a close family member, the end of dreams and hopes broken, just facts.

In star trek this is Spok.
In Christ this is the empty dead hypocrites who have no mercy, faithfulness or love. They watch Jesus die coldly as a blasphemer wondering why these apostates weep so much. Too much influence from women.

Jesus spoke of false teachers with hearts full of thorns and thistles, seeing only their self interest and greed. Belief alone does not save, you have to open up and become alive.

God bless you

Jesus loved children because they are this learning ball of emotion. We must be honest and admit this reality to enter the Kingdom. Fact.
 

PeterJens

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Yes, it is easy to see how your dedication to soulish sentiments limits your understanding. Trust God with your mind, admit is renewed to overcome the slavery to emotions. He can deliver you completely if you seek Him.
This expression "soulish sentiments" "slavery to emotions" suggests the idea emotions are actually signals about who we are and what we care about is thrown out the window.

Emotions are summaries for action, either joy, sadness, or action. They spur us forward or create great caution. As summaries they are approximate, and without training and understanding can cause confusion. As we grow up we learn to listen and use emotions in their right context and to change, to let God touch our hearts and transform us.

To the audience who see emotions as the enemy to be repressed, rejected and enslaved, they have lost sight of who they are, and whatever they think they have created in their lives, the true individual is someone else entirely, and when shown before the Lord, will break them totally.

God and Jesus demonstrated the full breadth of emotion in its proper context, anger and judgement, love and praise, support for those mourning, help for those broken and suffering and encouragement for those seeking to do good.

Unfortunately the more dysfunctional people are the more disconnected with their internal emotional life they are, and the more difficult they find it to relate to anyone else. Our emotions are not king and neither is our understanding, they work in Christ in harmony.

God bless you
 
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