A look at 1 John 3.6

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The seed refers to our spirit not our flesh.
That unbiblical doctrine just accommodates sinfulness.
With only a partial rebirth from God's seed, there must still be a portion that is the old creature.
It also makes 2 Cor 5:17 a lie..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Again your are misguided by the unbiblical doctrine that teaches our physical body was born again at water baptism.
Don't you believe this verse ?..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
If your old body was crucified and destroyed, how can you still be walking in it ?


 
1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. <--false believers
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. <--true believers
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. <--false believers
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. <--true believers
1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. (ESV)

Once again, we see that from the very start of chapter 1 and continuing throughout, on past these verses, John uses first person plural pronouns--"us," "we," "our." He is clearly speaking about himself, the other apostles and disciples, and then including all believers. That is confirmed in 2:1 by "My little children;" that does not describe unbelievers. More than that, in verse 2 he clearly differentiates between "our sins" and "the sins of the whole world."
We read in the Bible that on the one hand believers continue to sin, but on the other hand they have been set free from sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10).

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (1 John 3:9).

This sounds like a contradiction, and Christian theologians have been trying to explain it for centuries.

This contradiction can only be explained by understanding Yahweh's purpose. He reflected the spiritual through the physical (Romans 1:19,20). Therefore, spiritual birth (birth from God leading to sinlessness according to John) can be understood through the birth of a child. The birth of a child goes through 3 stages (following the pattern of the Tabernacle): fertilization, intrauterine development, and birth into the world. Note that miscarriages can occur during intrauterine development, for example, if the mother abuses alcohol. In spiritual birth, a person hears and receives the Word of Truth (fertilization), grows and is formed in knowledge (intrauterine development), and begins to live spiritually on his own when Yahweh reveals truth or gives him spiritual understanding (spiritual birth). This process is described in the Savior's parable of the sower (Matthew 13:1-23).

From this we see that there are 2 groups of believers. Those who understand - they were born and cannot give up God or go back to their mother's womb (John 3:3,4) and do not sin. Those who are not yet spiritually mature and are in the “spiritual womb” can refuse God and not be born Spiritually (2 Peter 2:20) and continue to sin. Of course, there is also a large group of people who think they believe in the Truth, but have not heard the Truth, but believe in interpretations and traditions.

More detailed explanation with more witnesses is in this lecture which includes a PowerPoint presentation (from 1hr23min until 2hr02min):

 
We read in the Bible that on the one hand believers continue to sin, but on the other hand they have been set free from sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10).

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (1 John 3:9).

This sounds like a contradiction, and Christian theologians have been trying to explain it for centuries.

This contradiction can only be explained by understanding Yahweh's purpose. He reflected the spiritual through the physical (Romans 1:19,20). Therefore, spiritual birth (birth from God leading to sinlessness according to John) can be understood through the birth of a child. The birth of a child goes through 3 stages (following the pattern of the Tabernacle): fertilization, intrauterine development, and birth into the world. Note that miscarriages can occur during intrauterine development, for example, if the mother abuses alcohol. In spiritual birth, a person hears and receives the Word of Truth (fertilization), grows and is formed in knowledge (intrauterine development), and begins to live spiritually on his own when Yahweh reveals truth or gives him spiritual understanding (spiritual birth). This process is described in the Savior's parable of the sower (Matthew 13:1-23).

From this we see that there are 2 groups of believers. Those who understand - they were born and cannot give up God or go back to their mother's womb (John 3:3,4) and do not sin. Those who are not yet spiritually mature and are in the “spiritual womb” can refuse God and not be born Spiritually (2 Peter 2:20) and continue to sin. Of course, there is also a large group of people who think they believe in the Truth, but have not heard the Truth, but believe in interpretations and traditions.

More detailed explanation with more witnesses is in this lecture which includes a PowerPoint presentation (from 1hr23min until 2hr02min):

Addressed here: https://christianforums.net/threads/have-you-heard-the-gospel.110963/post-1926295
 
We read in the Bible that on the one hand believers continue to sin,
Where ?
but on the other hand they have been set free from sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10).

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (1 John 3:9).

This sounds like a contradiction, and Christian theologians have been trying to explain it for centuries.
The "contradiction" is solved when you realize that John is writing about two different kinds of people in 1 John 1.
Those who walk in God (the light). (1 John 1:5)
And those who walk in sin (darkness). (Pro 4:19)
John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B, style of writing to juxtapose one group against the other.
(Paul uses the same system in Rom 8, where he juxtaposes those who walk in the flesh against those who walk in the Spirit.)
Not all of 1 John 1 applies to those who walk in God, while other parts do not apply to those who walk in sin.
Sinners cannot say they have no sin.
Those who walk in God can say they have no sin, as there is no sin in God !
 
If you think it is unbiblical, you will never experience its power.


The power is from the Holy Spirit, not natural water.


But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts 1:8


These Apostles had already been baptized in water.
 
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Where ?

The "contradiction" is solved when you realize that John is writing about two different kinds of people in 1 John 1.
Those who walk in God (the light). (1 John 1:5)
And those who walk in sin (darkness). (Pro 4:19)
John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B, style of writing to juxtapose one group against the other.
(Paul uses the same system in Rom 8, where he juxtaposes those who walk in the flesh against those who walk in the Spirit.)
Not all of 1 John 1 applies to those who walk in God, while other parts do not apply to those who walk in sin.
Sinners cannot say they have no sin.
Those who walk in God can say they have no sin, as there is no sin in God !
People can read the Bible and belive in Christ but still walk in sin (Luke 8:13). I think we are saying similar things.
 
People can read the Bible and belive in Christ but still walk in sin (Luke 8:13). I think we are saying similar things.

He believes he is sinless because he believes his physical body was born again when he was water baptized.
 
The power is from the Holy Spirit, not natural water.

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts 1:8
The Spirit and the water and the blood, agree in one ! (1 John 5:8)
They are inseparable in water baptism, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
These Apostles had already been baptized in water.
Probably, though there is no mention of that occurrence in the bible.
First with water, in the OT, by John the baptist.
Then by God, in the NT with the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 
People can read the Bible and belive in Christ but still walk in sin (Luke 8:13).
I think that if they really believed, they would quit walking in sin/darkness.
Walking in sin alienates them from God.
But what has that to do with the supposed theologians misunderstanding of 1 John 1 ?
I think we are saying similar things.
About what ?
 
He believes he is sinless because he believes his physical body was born again when he was water baptized.
JLB believes he is not sinless because he attributes sinfulness to his skin and bones.
Even though God's new creatures are not sin laden.
 
I think that if they really believed, they would quit walking in sin/darkness.
Walking in sin alienates them from God.
But what has that to do with the supposed theologians misunderstanding of 1 John 1 ?

About what ?
Some believers (let's say they believe but not really believe) can sin, and some believers are born again and don't sin. The theologians think that as soon as you say a prayer and accept Jesus as your savior you receive the Holy Spirit and are born again. I provided the witnesses that it is not so. I explained this previously and attached a video with more explanation.
 
Water baptism is an Old Covenant tradition which is not valid anymore (Hebrews 9:9,10).


Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience— concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:6-10


The context refers to the Tabernacle and the things associated with it.


Water baptism is a New Covenant application and is applicable today.


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48


These Gentiles received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and water baptism some 10 years after Pentecost.


The Lord led Peter through a vision to accomplish all these things for Cornelius.


Please know that water baptism is part of the three baptisms that are a New Testament application today.


Paul taught the Church at Corinth these things some 20 years after Pentecost using Old Testament types and shadows that foreshadowed New Testament realities from the Old.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 1 Corinthians 10:1-2




JLB
 
Some believers (let's say they believe but not really believe) can sin,
That makes them unbelievers.
and some believers are born again and don't sin.
All real believers will remain obedient until the end.
The theologians think that as soon as you say a prayer and accept Jesus as your savior you receive the Holy Spirit and are born again. I provided the witnesses that it is not so. I explained this previously and attached a video with more explanation.
Correct on all points.
Their errors make them false prophets.
 
Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience— concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:6-10


The context refers to the Tabernacle and the things associated with it.


Water baptism is a New Covenant application and is applicable today.


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48


These Gentiles received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and water baptism some 10 years after Pentecost.


The Lord led Peter through a vision to accomplish all these things for Cornelius.


Please know that water baptism is part of the three baptisms that are a New Testament application today.


Paul taught the Church at Corinth these things some 20 years after Pentecost using Old Testament types and shadows that foreshadowed New Testament realities from the Old.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 1 Corinthians 10:1-2




JLB
Water baptism was one of these "various washings" under the OT. Because this is off topic, my partial answer to your post can be found here: https://christianforums.net/threads/understanding-the-holy-spirit-baptism.110183/page-3#post-1920463

If you like, we can continue the discussion about baptism there.
 
Water baptism was one of these "various washings" under the OT. Because this is off topic, my partial answer to your post can be found here: https://christianforums.net/threads/understanding-the-holy-spirit-baptism.110183/page-3#post-1920463

If you like, we can continue the discussion about baptism there.

I disagree.

Was John’s baptism from heaven or from man?

Baptism in water is a New Testament application and is part of three distinct baptisms that are described in scripture and foreshadowed in the Old Testament.