IS MAN UNABLE TO SEEK GOD...

[GodsGrace]

All of Christianity understands that man is born depraved.

Depraved means corrupt, evil, or immoral.

We're born this way because Adam, being the federal head of mankind, fell and thus caused all of us to be affected
by the fall - which was caused by disobedience to God, and thus disrespect to the Creator of the universe.
Man could not atone for such an act, but it could only be made right by someone with a divine nature, as God Himself.
This was Jesus, of course.

But we're faced with a question that has been asked since the reformation:

Has this depravity of man made him UNABLE to seek God,
Unable to decide for God,
Unable to obey God.

The reformed believe a person must be regenerated FIRST by the Holy Spirit,
and THEN become saved.

The rest of Christianity believes that man must seek God first,
then decide to obey God, become born again and then sanctification, or regeneration, can happen.

Which seems correct by just reading the NT with no indoctrination?



(hope electedbyhim joins in).

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi electedbyhim

This is what you posted as to what you believe,
and I'll attempt to reply to it, but it's a lot...
(Also, you should post your source)

Total depravity is a phrase or name that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man. It is the “T” in the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to enumerate what are known as the five points of Calvinism or the doctrines of grace. Because the name “total depravity” can cause people to have wrong ideas about what is meant, some people prefer to use terms like “total inability,” “righteous incapability,” “radical corruption” or even “moral inability.” Yet what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man. No matter which name you use to refer to “total depravity,” the fact remains that when properly understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible does teach on this important subject.


Every Christian believes that man is born depraved. Total depravity can be understood to mean that man is depraved in every way...
physically, emotionally, psycologically, spiritually, etc.

What the rest of Christianity does not agree with is what I posted in the OP.
Calvinism believes man is INCAPABLE of seeking God or choosing God.
If this were true, what would the following verses mean?

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek HIm.

Matthew 7:8
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

James 4:8
Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you...

Acts 17:27
That they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

Proverbs 8:17
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Psalm 63:1
...O God, you are my God; earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you; my flesh faints for you, as in a dry and weary land where there is no water.

1 of 6

 

[GodsGrace]

2 of 6

While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being including who we are and what we do. It penetrates to the very core of our being so that everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). It acknowledges that the Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners by nature. Or, as Jesus says, “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.” (Matthew 7:17-18).

All of Christianity agrees with the above.
We are born with a sinful nature and we tend toward sin.
A person that is not saved cannot please God.

Romans 8:7-8
7For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will.
8That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

 

[GodsGrace]

3 of 6

The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).


I have already shown that the bible teaches that it IS possible for man to seek God.
Man is depraved, he is not dead as the above states.
Romans 12:1 instructs us to PRESENT OURSELVES TO GOD as a living sacrifice.
PRESENT OURSELVES. This is an action that we must do.
If the bible instructs us to do something, it means that God knows we have the capability to follow His instruction.

Although we are born depraved, God has set up a plan so that we can save ourselves if we want to.
THIS is the grace of God - that He desires that all men be saved. Paul tell us this in 1 Timothy 2:4 - God desires that all men be saved.

And this is the plan of God:

Romans 8:3-4
3The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.
4He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

And those that call upon the Son will be saved.

John 3:16
16“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.

 

[GodsGrace]

4 of 6

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that 1—no one is without sin, 2—no one seeks after God, 3—there is no one who is good, 4—their speech is corrupted by sin, 5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and 6—above all, they have no fear of God. So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12).

So Christians agree that man is depraved, but the disagreement seems to be on whether or not man is ABLE to come to God.

Jesus said the following:

John 7:17
17Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own.

John 12:32
And if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to Myself.

Matthew 7:24
Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man...

Doesn't that sound to you like JESUS believes that
we are able to be drawn to Him,
to want to do His will,
are able to act upon His words.

 

[GodsGrace]

5 of 6

There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!”

Since Scripture is very clear that all of man is affected by sin and so much so that “no one seeks after God,” then how can anyone possibly become a Christian? The answer is that God must overcome man’s depravity in such a way that man is able to recognize his spiritual state and his hopeless condition apart from the grace of God. Man’s spiritually blind eyes must be open and the bondage of sin that renders him hopelessly enslaved must be broken so that he can respond in faith to the gospel message and the atoning work of Christ on the cross. Some Christians believe that God accomplishes this through some type of universal grace whereby God brings man to a condition where he has the ability to choose or reject Him. Others believe that for a man who is “dead in trespasses and sins” to be able to understand and respond to the gospel in faith, he must first be born again or regenerated by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3). It is only after God infuses spiritual life into a dead sinner that he can “see the kingdom of God.” Those that hold this view see this as being a sovereign act of God, whereby men are born again “not of the blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God” (John 1:12-13)

So if it is impossible for man to seek God or reply to God's call of salvation,
it must mean that God Himself chooses to enlighten some and ignore others.
This means that God will save some to eternal life and condemn some to eternal damnation.
Is this what you believe?

 

[GodsGrace]

6 of 6

However, even when the doctrine of total depravity is properly understood, many people will reject the doctrine, but that fact should not surprise us, since the world generally thinks of man as being basically good. Therefore, the idea that man by nature is a depraved sinner runs contrary to most modern religious, psychological and philosophical views of the basic nature of man. But the fact is that the Bible does teach the depravity of the human heart, and the root cause of man’s problem is not the environment he is raised in but his wicked and selfish heart. Properly understood, the doctrine of total depravity will destroy the hopes of those who place their faith in any type of works-based system of salvation and will recognize that God’s sovereign grace is man’s only hope. While the doctrine of total depravity destroys man’s self-righteousness and any misconceptions about man’s ability to be saved through his own free will, it leaves one asking the same question the disciples asked of Jesus in Matthew 19:25-26: “Then who can be saved?” Of course the answer remains the same: “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:25-26).

As the first of the five doctrines of what is called “Calvinism,” the doctrine of total depravity correctly focuses man’s attention on the rest of these “doctrines of grace” which declare the wondrous work of God in the salvation of sinners

The above is not true. All religions understand that man is born depraved.
This is why God had to send His Son to be an atonement for sins.
The doctrine of total depravity as understood by calvinism is rejected because it was never believed in Christianity until John Calvin and M. Luther came up with this idea in the 1,500's.

This also removes man's free will.
Do you believe you do NOT have free will?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

All of Christianity understands that man is born depraved.

It’s clear writing “all of” makes you feel like you’ve made a concrete statement but Calvin invented this theory or maybe one can say Aristotle did. Not a single person who wrote the Bible said this about man.

Depraved means corrupt, evil, or immoral.

There’s no moral position lower. That God called some “righteous”demonstrates this is not Gods view of man.

We're born this way because Adam, being the federal head of mankind, fell and thus caused all of us to be affected
by the fall - which was caused by disobedience to God, and thus disrespect to the Creator of the universe.

And yet God never says this to any man about man.

Man could not atone for such an act, but it could only be made right by someone with a divine nature, as God Himself.
This was Jesus, of course.

Well, it’s not a “nature” we cannot help and therefore aren’t responsible that Jesus died for our actual sin.

But we're faced with a question that has been asked since the reformation:

Has this depravity of man made him UNABLE to seek God,

No, because the Bible says over and over again that so and so sought God. It’s a repeated theme.

Unable to decide for God,
Unable to obey God.

No, God actually said in Deuteronomy that the law given was NOT too difficult for man. I mean, how hard is it it to murder?

The reformed believe a person must be regenerated FIRST by the Holy Spirit,
and THEN become saved.

The Calvinists, not all the Reformers. That’s calvinist doctrine.

The rest of Christianity believes that man must seek God first,
then decide to obey God, become born again and then sanctification, or regeneration, can happen.

Well, The “rest” don’t have just one united view.

Which seems correct by just reading the NT with no indoctrination?

There are too many examples of different experiences to lump them into one explanation. But it’s clear WE, not God, are responsible for choosing to respond.

 

[hawkman]

(Also, you should post your source)

wondering The source for what you posted in this thread is, https://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html

I am not a big fan of gotquestions . They seem to be anti-Pentecostal .

 

[Tenchi]

All of Christianity understands that man is born depraved.

Depraved means corrupt, evil, or immoral.

We're born this way because Adam, being the federal head of mankind, fell and thus caused all of us to be affected
by the fall - which was caused by disobedience to God, and thus disrespect to the Creator of the universe.

I don't think an infant can be called "depraved." If he doesn't come under God's authority and control, he may, as he grows up, move toward depravity, disposed by his natural human selfishness to such behavior. But I don't see anything in God's word that indicates that a newborn baby is depraved.

We're born this way because Adam, being the federal head of mankind, fell and thus caused all of us to be affected
by the fall - which was caused by disobedience to God, and thus disrespect to the Creator of the universe.

We're all born separated from God because of Adam and therefore in a condition where we seek our own interests in a manner outside of God's direct control. This leads people into sin, and corruption, and death. But no one in their cradle is yearning for such things.

Has this depravity of man made him UNABLE to seek God,
Unable to decide for God,
Unable to obey God.

No. Consider Cornelius:

Acts 10:1-2
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Cornelius was not a Christian, nor a Jew, but a Gentile Roman centurion who was, in spite of his spiritual unregeneracy, called in Scripture a "devout man," "one who feared God," and who was dedicated to prayer. In fact, when Peter asks Cornelius' messengers about their master, the messengers answer:

Acts 10:22 (NASB)
22 They said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you."

How is this possible? Shouldn't Cornelius be a depraved wretch, utterly unable, because he is "dead in trespasses and sins," to be devout and God-fearing?

How is it that unregenerate Zacchaeus was seeking Christ, even climbing a tree to catch a glimpse of him? Zacchaeus was spiritually dead, wasn't he? Zacchaeus was totally depraved, and thus unable even to want to seek out Christ, if Reformed believers have it right. But we read of Zacchaeus in his spiritual deadness pursuing Jesus. Interesting, no?

There is no explicit statement anywhere in Scripture indicating that all people are utterly unable to seek God. This is "deduced" from God's word by Reformed folk, though such a deduction is by no means necessary.

www.soteriology101.com

The reformed believe a person must be regenerated FIRST by the Holy Spirit,
and THEN become saved.

Crazy, eh? The exact opposite of what Scripture actually says.

The rest of Christianity believes that man must seek God first,
then decide to obey God, become born again and then sanctification, or regeneration, can happen.

Which seems correct by just reading the NT with no indoctrination?

Well, Scripture does tell us that God draws people to Christ (John 6:44), and convicts them of their sin (John 16:8), and makes them capable of repentance (2 Timothy 2:25); but He doesn't compel unrepentant sinners into His kingdom, as the Reformed folk like to think. Having done these things, God leaves it to us to respond to the Gospel as we will.

 

[electedbyHim]

I had this concise study from years ago

Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked”
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

Man is born dead in transgression and sin
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Ephesians 2:1-5 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

Because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” man is held captive by a love for sin
Joh 3:19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.;
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

Man will not seek God
Romans 3:10-11 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

Man loves the darkness
Joh 3:19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil

Man cannot understand the things of God
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

Man suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Man continues to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved this sinful lifestyle seems right to men
Pro 14:12 There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Man rejects the Gospel of Christ as foolishness
1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Mans mind is “hostile toward God
Rom 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

The Apostle Paul really summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18:
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS"; "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS"; "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

 

[electedbyHim]

wondering The source for what you posted in this thread is, https://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html

I am not a big fan of gotquestions . They seem to be anti-Pentecostal .

Its not that they are anti-Pentecostal, they just hold to Biblical teachings. They believe that the gifts have ceased and not in play today. Someone said they are a reformed website, but I do not know that they are.

 

[for_his_glory]

The rest of Christianity believes that man must seek God first,
then decide to obey God, become born again and then sanctification, or regeneration, can happen.

Which seems correct by just reading the NT with no indoctrination?

I too believe this is the way.

We must first seek His face

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Then we become Spiritually born again from above which is regeneration

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

At the time of regeneration as put on the new Spiritual inner man of Christ we are then only sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption as long as we do not grieve the Holy Spirit

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We are only saved at the end when Christ returns if we endure all the things of this world that will try and come against us

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[hawkman]

Its not that they are anti-Pentecostal, they just hold to Biblical teachings. They believe that the gifts have ceased and not in play today. Someone said they are a reformed website, but I do not know that they are.

As far as I have read on GotQuestions , they are not completely cessationist , just almost .

Do you have a link from GotQuestions that would indicate they are cessationist ?

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering The source for what you posted in this thread is, https://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html

I am not a big fan of gotquestions . They seem to be anti-Pentecostal .

I like to check sources out.
But I have no idea how to find them unless it's posted.
Also, in THEOLOGY it's necessary to post sources.

I don't care for QOTQUESTIONS either.
Sometimes, however, they have a simple explanation for something, so I do use them at times.
Frankly, I prefer using scripture.

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering The source for what you posted in this thread is, https://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html

I am not a big fan of gotquestions . They seem to be anti-Pentecostal .

P.S.
Thanks!

 

[hawkman]

I don't think an infant can be called "depraved." If he doesn't come under God's authority and control, he may, as he grows up, move toward depravity, disposed by his natural human selfishness to such behavior. But I don't see anything in God's word that indicates that a newborn baby is depraved.

Yes ! In fallen world living among all the other sinners copying their actions .

We're all born separated from God because of Adam and therefore in a condition where we seek our own interests in a manner outside of God's direct control. This leads people into sin, and corruption, and death. But no one in their cradle is yearning for such things.

I agree !

 

[hawkman]

I like to check sources out.

You got that right !

But I have no idea how to find them unless it's posted.
Also, in THEOLOGY it's necessary to post sources.

I found out you can put an entire sentence in the search box on Duckduckgo and get results . It helps that I use a pc and large monitor .

I don't care for QOTQUESTIONS either.
Sometimes, however, they have a simple explanation for something, so I do use them at times.
Frankly, I prefer using scripture.

GotQuestions does get a lot right and they do give scripture links so we can proof them, so not all bad . They just don't seem to have anyone writing that has practical knowledge of the Gifts of The Holy Spirit .

P.S.
Thanks!

Glad I could help :shades

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think an infant can be called "depraved." If he doesn't come under God's authority and control, he may, as he grows up, move toward depravity, disposed by his natural human selfishness to such behavior. But I don't see anything in God's word that indicates that a newborn baby is depraved.

Hi Tenchi,
I agree with you about an infant not being wicked.
It's just bible talk. We are all born depraved, or I like to say with the sin nature.
IOW, when we're born we tend towards evil and this is because we don't know God yet.
There are exceptions. I've known children that were born again at a very early age.
I was speaking about calvinism, so I used the term depraved.

We're all born separated from God because of Adam and therefore in a condition where we seek our own interests in a manner outside of God's direct control. This leads people into sin, and corruption, and death. But no one in their cradle is yearning for such things.

Again, agreed.
But this condition you call SEPARATED FROM GOD because of Adam's sin does have a name.
In Christianity it's called the sinful nature, or the flesh.
This is what makes us tend toward sinning.
(until we come to know God and worship Him).

No. Consider Cornelius:

Acts 10:1-2
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Cornelius was not a Christian, nor a Jew, but a Gentile Roman centurion who was, in spite of his spiritual unregeneracy, called in Scripture a "devout man," "one who feared God," and who was dedicated to prayer. In fact, when Peter asks Cornelius' messengers about their master, the messengers answer:

Acts 10:22 (NASB)
22 They said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you."

How is this possible? Shouldn't Cornelius be a depraved wretch, utterly unable, because he is "dead in trespasses and sins," to be devout and God-fearing?

No. Cornelius was a saved person, why would he be wretched?
Romans 1:19 states that God has always revealed Himself to humankind.
Some respond with a yes, and some respond with a no.
Cornelius responded with a yes.

How is it that unregenerate Zacchaeus was seeking Christ, even climbing a tree to catch a glimpse of him? Zacchaeus was spiritually dead, wasn't he? Zacchaeus was totally depraved, and thus unable even to want to seek out Christ, if Reformed believers have it right. But we read of Zacchaeus in his spiritual deadness pursuing Jesus. Interesting, no?

Well, reformed believers do NOT have it right.
This is the whole point of the OP.
Thanks for bringing up such good examples of why the reformed are not correct in their theology.

There is no explicit statement anywhere in Scripture indicating that all people are utterly unable to seek God. This is "deduced" from God's word by Reformed folk, though such a deduction is by no means necessary.

www.soteriology101.com

Agreed.

Crazy, eh? The exact opposite of what Scripture actually says.


Well, Scripture does tell us that God draws people to Christ (John 6:44), and convicts them of their sin (John 16:8), and makes them capable of repentance (2 Timothy 2:25); but He doesn't compel unrepentant sinners into His kingdom, as the Reformed folk like to think. Having done these things, God leaves it to us to respond to the Gospel as we will.

Amen to that!
It's exactly God's grace which allows us an opportunity to become saved.
The reformed like to speak of God's grace - but I doubt they know what it is.

 

[electedbyHim]

As far as I have read on GotQuestions , they are not completely cessationist , just almost .

Do you have a link from GotQuestions that would indicate they are cessationist ?

No, but I thought I read that somewhere years ago. I could be wrong.

If time permits, I will look into that.