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IS MAN UNABLE TO SEEK GOD...

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
 
The Tabernacle represented Eden in many ways. It was a place where God and man could share what Adam and God shared in the garden. Prior to the flood, I believe Enoch shared that intimate relationship with God, much like Adam.

That's interesting. Just at a glance, I don't see strong parallels between Eden and the Tabernacle. Yes, the High Priest of Israel could "meet" with God in the Tabernacle, but only under very ordered and confined circumstances that didn't exist for Adam and Eve in Eden. If the Tabernacle is in some measure representative of Eden, it is so in a significantly diminished way.

What Enoch's relationship to God was, exactly, is never spelled-out in Scripture. The few details the Bible offers about Enoch tend to prompt speculation rather than fact, which I try to avoid, as much as possible.

Yes, the sin of Adam brought forth death and separated the union God had with Adam / humanity in the garden. But it also brought forth a curse to the ground as Paul writes later in Romans that the whole earth groans.

Yes, right.

I don’t think a newborn is separated from God at birth. Instead, I believe that as the child grows, and becomes accountable for the sins he / she commits they separate themselves from God in the same way Paul writes earlier in Romans that we can store up wrath for ourselves because of an unrepentant heart.

Hmmm...I'm not sure, really, if I agree or disagree with this. I tend more toward agreement, than disagreement, though. It fits with the "child innocence" idea Scripture seems to indicate. (2 Samuel 12:23; Deuteronomy 1:39; Matthew 18:6, 14; 1 Corinthians 14:20; Romans 9:11; Luke 18:16)

I do apologize that I did not articulate myself as well as you have. I am writing on my phone without my glasses.

You show great perseverance in doing so, regardless of clarity (which I don't think is absent in your remarks)!
 
Tenchi is taking too many little parts of scripture, and not even including what is around his quotes, for a little better understanding. Let me sort some of this out for all.


Are these verses showing child innocence as relevant to God, or only as an example of the way to be, before it is too late for men and women ?


In the wilderness, men and women were complaining all the time to God after He saved them out of the bondage of the land of Egypt. One of their complaints was that their children would die. The children had no knowledge between good and evil, but just like Adam and Eve, ( as all in Adam die. 1 Corinthians 15:22) everybody born of and in the flesh, follows in the very same footsteps as their first father Adam, as all teachers in that line of Adam ( in the flesh.) transgress against God, and so all who heard from them ( every child that grows up.) learns only to also transgress.





Isaiah 43:27 Thy first father hath sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me.

Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.




Looking fully at that Romans quote, Romans 9:11. Then we can now recognise that all who are children of the flesh ( which is all, as all in Adam die.) are NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD.

The children of the promise are counted as His seed. ( as Isaac who was called after the seed, which seed is one, who is Christ. )

Adam also was the figure of Him who was to come. ( not the first Adam, of the flesh who all die in, but the last Adam only, made after a quickening Spirit, who all are made alive in.)

Gods instructions do not show innocence in any child, because they never were the children of God. God instead shows how, the elder ( the first) shall serve the younger, (the last ) which is Jesus Christ is the last sent to us who we serve, through Adam who was the first man of the earth, but that first ( born of the flesh) has to serve the last ( Christ a quickened Spirit.)




Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Hebrews 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.



Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.


1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:





The quote of Matthew 18:6 and Luke 18:16, show this all too clearly.

The little child even though born of the flesh, and in Adam, and not children of God, are examples of humbleness, before they all ( without exception, as all are in Adam) go on to know and do good and evil. Then all are required to believe in the Holy child of God, Jesus Christ, ( Acts 4:27.) because the scripture goes on to show how little ones believe in Christ. ( those converted by belief in the rising of Jesus Christ to be quickened with Him, and not continuing to be of Adam the first father of all, and all in Adam die as they are only a living soul, but not quickened after the Spirit.)

That is the full description of the Kingdom of God.




Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Luke 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.




But just in case it is not clear enough yet. Romans 2:5 was also mentioned.

God leads everybody ( trapped in death in Adam, children and all, as all are without that quickening Spirit of Christ.) to repentance, through the revelation of Jesus Christ. This is, as told below, God giving us the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him.

Before this, as the next chapter of Romans 3, goes on to further explain, in all the world none can seek after God ( all in Adam grow up to be all children of the flesh, who are NOT CHILDEREN OF GOD.) all the world is proven to be guilty before God( no exceptions, it is ALL, all are held under that law ( that Christ nails to His cross for all to believe in) as ALL THE WORLD IS GUILTY BEFORE GOD.




Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.


Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
 
All scripture is for instruction in righteousness, to make us wise unto salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ.


2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
 
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