is marriage dead?

[for_his_glory]

Not implying.....pretty sure that in the USA, LOVE celebrated by readily available God ordained sex within marriage is still the initial reason why chaste christian men and women get married. Those who think that they can have sex with whomever will let them, without being married to them must think that their creator turns a blind eye to their sin. Oh yeah...SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE AND PREMARITAL SEX IS SIN. What I am implying is that many don't get married because they are indeed engaging in premarital sex .

If sex isn't key why aren't all those people who are living together or "with benefits" just platonic friends instead? Just sayin'

I have to disagree with sex being the initial reason for getting married whether you are a chaste person or not. If sex is the main reason then the marriage is doomed from the beginning. Friendship, love (not sex), compassion and trust is what a marriage is all about as two become as one flesh united together with Jesus being the center of the relationship as the two walk as one walking beside each other and not one ahead of the other. When sex is demanded then this puts the other in bondage. It has to be a mutual consent.

There is no place in the Bible that constitutes having to have a marriage license. Man incorporated this into the law. In the Hebrew tradition a mohar or dowry was paid to the father of the bride by the groom in exchange for the daughter, Exodus 22:17. Genesis 2:23-25 explains the bond of marriage. The two are united as one in the eyes of God. Ephesians 5:22-29 wives are to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord for the husband is the spiritual head of the wife. Man is the provider and protector of his family. Husbands, you are to love your wives like Christ loves his church. This is an unconditional love that looks on the inside of a person and not the adorning of the outside. It is a love with a pure heart.

This submission also carries over to the bed that neither should deprive one another unless it is a mutual consent, 1 Corinthians 7:5 the principles for the married believer are explained in 1 Corinthians 7:10-16. As long as there is love and faithfulness the two should never depart from each other nor stray away for lust of the flesh.

 

[Danus]

I'd agree that sex should not be the reason one get's married, but I also tend to agree that sex is a large deciding factor, for many. It's unfortunate.

In some church mens groups, I've been involved in, inevitably this subject comes up. Usually it's someone struggling with lust, and often that man is married. I can't count the times I've heard some men wonder why they have these issues when they are married, and often times blame their spouse by saying something like; "She just does not fulfill my needs."

How many times do we hear the world express sex as a "need"? A lot. So much so that we have also expressed sex as a need in conversations about marriage in the church. I don't want to sound like a prude, but I've come to believe that sex is not a need. Not one bit. Not for anyone.

I know that sounds a bit off the rails, but I really don't think so. Water is a need. Shelter, clothing, food. We NEED these things just to survive. Certainly sex is a need of the human race, but it's not a basic need for individual survival. It's a desire, and nothing more.

In teaching my kids about money, I tell them that we have needs and wants, and it's important to know the difference. That's also true when it comes to our spiritual life, which I firmly also believe is reflected in how we manage our money as well.

So I tell my kids that a NEED is something you have to buy but don't necessarily want to buy. An example might be a toilet plunger LOL. Dishes, a coffee maker, light bulbs. LOL....the list goes on. A WANT is something you don't need to buy but desire to buy. An example might be an ice cream treat, or a movie ticket.

The real testing of ones spirit comes when their needs meet their desires face to face. For example, I need a car. Do I buy an expensive luxury car or a practical used car? If I bought the expensive luxury car it would fill a real need for a car, but I've simply added my desire on top to justify the need.

We can and do the same thing when it comes to marriage, I think.

Surely there is a need in marriage. I need for companionship. A need to love someone intimately (not necessarily sex). A need to be love and known intimately also, to be connected as one. We are made in Gods Image in this way, and I can't think of a more beautiful model of Godly love than marriage. But, we, in our sinfulness, also tend to incorporate our desires, and it's the doing of that, that causes us to stumble. It's that reason that marriages fell the most.

People marry others for status, sex, money, power. These things are desires, and when these types of things dictate who we marry and why, our doom rushes upon us in due time.

I was reading this story today about Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin. OK, in my defense, I like the band Cold Play, but If you're aware of these two you'll know they recently announce their divorce after 10 years. The story attempted to explain the reasons behind the split, and the more I read the more it was clear to me that these two did not have a clue about marriage to begin with. Each seemed to be in it for themselves, and what the marriage would do, or what they thought it would do, for themselves personally.

I'm no less guilty of this. I married at 20 and divorced at 25. Met God shortly after, but my first marriage was no less selfish. No less route with my own desires and void of anything meaningful or real.

Sometimes a desire can be just that, and we can know it for what it is. We may act on it, like buying a movie ticket. But sometimes our desires mingle with our needs. That's when we need to be careful and reflect on our consciousness. We need to know what it is we need, and what it is we desire so that we can keep the two appropriately separate.

Is it Ok for a married couple to desire sex with one another; to be attracted sexually to each other? Sure it is. It's a gift from God, but understand it's not a need.

people who don't understand the difference between their desires and their needs will mix the two together when their desires mingle with their needs, and when that happens they do things like calling sex love, or believe they are "falling" in love because they are sexually attracted to someone.

We often hear the homosexual crowd talking about the freedom to marry who they love.??? This is why they say these things. Heck it's why teenagers say these things. They have no real understanding of the difference between needs and desires, and so they merge the two, and when we do that, when we merge our needs and desires, we can justify anything we "want".

God teaches us the difference about our needs and our desires. He has never promised to meet our desires ...I have to be careful here, but stay with me..... Rather, God has promised to meet our needs, But in doing so, what I firmly believe happens in the Christian heart, is that our needs become our desires.

 

[turnorburn]

Is Marriage dead.. "Nope"

tob

 

[cftx1]

I wonder why a suitable mate could not be found in the garden for Adam.I wonder why Eve came from Adam. I wonder why our very bodies are created with complimantary sexual parts.Surely the chemisrtry in our bodys that attract us to members of the opposite sex was not a result of the fall but Gods design.Is tnere any reason why a young man would leave the established life that he has with his mother and father to start an intimate family of two of his own? What is adultry and why is it wrong IF sex is not a central theme of what we call marriage (life long monogomous committment to someone of the opposite sex)?Sex is not the ONLY reason to get married..companionship is important but surely a guys buddies or a gals girlfriends could provide adequate companionship..dont you think?
Lust is indeed an issue in the world today and always has been..but my understanding is that sexual lust is a twisted perversion of the God given sexual desires that God gave to humans to be attracted to each other...procreate...and enjoy the ultimate intamcy with another human being.
IMHO If what we call marriage was th4e only way to experience this wonderful gift of intimacy from God..people would be lining up to marry the person they were currently "hooking up" with. And IF one could not get divorced at the drop of a hat and then go get another husband or wife to be intimate with in any way I suspect that many marriages would indeed be
life long committments.

 

[cftx1]

Marriage=a comittmtent to one and a forsaking of all others

 

[cftx1]

By the way...you guys and gals are cool! Great conversation...

 

[Obadiah]

..people would be lining up to marry the person they were currently "hooking up" with...

Ever seen the lineups at some of the Las Vegas wedding chapels on a busy day? :-D

What is adultry and why is it wrong IF sex is not a central theme of what we call marriage

Technically "adultery" as seen in the Old Testament is the theft of another man's wife. Remember, back then women were simply property to be bought and used. Having sex with another man's wife was much like driving off with his car (OK, his chariot)! This is why even though things like sex with concubines (professional sex workers of the day, mainly used to provide children to men) was mentioned, yet it wasn't condemned in the OT.

 

[cftx1]

 

[Deborah13]

That's implying people only ever got married in order to be allowed to have sex.

I'd rather suspect marrriage seems less relevant today because education and social and finacial security are readily available even for singles or single moms and dads.
Homestly, if it wasn't for the christian value of marriage I wouldn't see any reason for getting married. You don't need some legal act in order to have committment.

I must say that I agree with you that the only reason for many people around the world to marry is to honor God. However, in many countries it is also a wise legal decision.

 

[Claudya]

Sex can be a consumation of love between two people on the physical level. I strongly disagree that it is "sinful" of "lustful".

Question: Does "lustful" have a negative connotation in English? Because the corresponding word in my native language is a very positive word. Thus I'd think sex *is* lustful - if you do it right.

 

[Free]

Question: Does "lustful" have a negative connotation in English? Because the corresponding word in my native language is a very positive word. Thus I'd think sex *is* lustful - if you do it right.

Yes, lust is generally a negative word--it is self-seeking and selfishness.

Sex can be a consumation of love between two people on the physical level. I strongly disagree that it is "sinful" of "lustful".

Between a husband and his wife, I would agree that it is not sinful, although it could be lustful. Outside of that marriage, it is most certainly sinful and often lustful.

 

[Claudya]

Yes, lust is generally a negative word--it is self-seeking and selfishness.

Oh okay I wasn't aware of that. In German the word Lust is like a synonym for joy, pleasure or desire, it's usually neutral or positive. So if you'd say that sex is "lustful" it just means it's pleasurable and satisfying with no implication of selfishness or selflessness.
Good to know that the word is so different in English - although it's pretty much the same word.

Between a husband and his wife, I would agree that it is not sinful, although it could be lustful. Outside of that marriage, it is most certainly sinful and often lustful.

Well there are many people who seek their own satisfaction through random sexual encounters - but on the other hand many people who practice sex outside of marriage still do it in love and respect for their partner, they just don't wait until marriage.
However, I'd bet that a constant lustful (selfish) attitude towards sex is sin even within a marriage and can be devastating for the marriage.

 

[Deborah13]

I would say that God is the one who created us the way we are with the intent that we would be sexual beings. If God is the creator it is good.
The relationships where some people use this good are what is sinful. The relationship itself is sinful.
This good is used in other sinful ways and very often used to generate money, making it doubly sinful in my mind. The use is sinful.

 

[Free]

Not really.

Not really sinful or not really lustful? Or both? From your point of view of course nothing is sinful--you have no basis on which to say anything is sinful or evil or good. But from a Christian point of view, we do have a standard by which to judge what is actually good and what is actually evil and what is sinful. So really, you cannot even begin to say whether or not something is sinful.

 

[Free]

Oh okay I wasn't aware of that. In German the word Lust is like a synonym for joy, pleasure or desire, it's usually neutral or positive. So if you'd say that sex is "lustful" it just means it's pleasurable and satisfying with no implication of selfishness or selflessness.
Good to know that the word is so different in English - although it's pretty much the same word.

It may have meant that at one point but I'm fairly certain it almost always has a negative connotation. Lust can refer to more than just sexual desire, of course, but it is always self-seeking.

Well there are many people who seek their own satisfaction through random sexual encounters - but on the other hand many people who practice sex outside of marriage still do it in love and respect for their partner, they just don't wait until marriage.

I would suggest that true love waits until marriage; lust makes one not want to wait and is less than loving.

However, I'd bet that a constant lustful (selfish) attitude towards sex is sin even within a marriage and can be devastating for the marriage.

Absolutely. Sexual lust sees the object of that lust as simply a piece of meat or a mere means to self-gratification.

 

[reba]

Not really.

Shep you are a guest here. You agreed to abide by the TOS. When your statements reflect ideals that are against the basic beliefs of Christianity , you are not abiding by the ToS

Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. This includes promotion of sexual sin and/or homosexual behavior. Do not make statements either by posts or posting URLs to other Websites which advocate activities, beliefs or teachings contrary to those of Christianity as articulated by the historic creeds, as understood by Evangelicalism, and as interpreted by the christianforums.net Leadership's sole discretion.

 

[jasonc]

what one views as a marriage under one parents will affect ones marriage. its called a generational curse if negative.

 

[Deborah13]

what one views as a marriage under one parents will affect ones marriage. its called a generational curse if negative.

Yes, children are taught by their parents and very often exhibit the same behaviors and deal with life the same way their parents do.
This of coarse is Not always true.

 

[jasonc]

Yes, children are taught by their parents and very often exhibit the same behaviors and deal with life the same way their parents do.
This of coarse is Not always true.

if I went into my lessons from inner healing this thread would be several derailed but some would be edified. I know that im not alone. I KNOW, im not alone with this battle. one here has called me and we shared our battles.

we discussed strong holds Wednesday and generational curses.

 

[Deborah13]

Oh okay I wasn't aware of that. In German the word Lust is like a synonym for joy, pleasure or desire, it's usually neutral or positive. So if you'd say that sex is "lustful" it just means it's pleasurable and satisfying with no implication of selfishness or selflessness.
Good to know that the word is so different in English - although it's pretty much the same word.


Well there are many people who seek their own satisfaction through random sexual encounters - but on the other hand many people who practice sex outside of marriage still do it in love and respect for their partner, they just don't wait until marriage.
However, I'd bet that a constant lustful (selfish) attitude towards sex is sin even within a marriage and can be devastating for the marriage.

I will say that it really doesn't matter how it is defined in German or in English. What matters is the definition of the word as it was used by the authors in THEIR writings and language.
Here is the Greek.
epithumeō
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).

So to me this word just means what it says. What is wrong is to "set our heart on" something or someone that we shouldn't. But to "set our heart upon" something good, would not be wrong.

Hey, Claudya. I directed this post to you because you brought up the meaning in German and I didn't think you would take it like I was some how disagreeing with you.