Is Second Coming IMMINENT?

[Bruce.Leiter]

Only after a tribulation, around 2033, 2000 years after the Pentecost in Acts 2. He returns on the day of atonement, the first day of a Jubilee year, this is prophesied in Is. 61.

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

That's only your interpretation that you have read into the prophecy about Jesus. I think it's a prophecy about Jesus' ministry during his first coming.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

I offered no opinion... I quoted two passages from God's word. Showed how they correlated and made a conclusion. That conclusion being that the most loving thing ever done in History was God sending His Son to die for the sins of all mankind.
Therefore God loves all of mankind.
It's sad that so few love Him back and just as sad that those of us who do love Him do it so poorly.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son."

Christianity is a big topic with one and only one main theme. That theme is God's redemptive plan.
Focusing on anything else is in my opinion an error. The best way to prepare for His return is not to study revelation in detail but to understand how relevation fits into God's plan to save sinners.

Amen and amen, onlysaved!

 

[onlysaved]

Ya know this got me to thinking,

If Christ said he would return like a thief in the night, then knowing he would come at the end of a trib period would seem to conflict with the statement.

Any thoughts on this?

:-?

I think a lot of people confuse the second coming with the rapture, they say things like "Jesus coming to collect His Church" a reference to the rapture vs Jesus's 2nd return to defeat Satan at the end of the tribulation.
My somewhat uneducated view is that the rapture is imminent. The return of Christ will be imminent about 7 years after that.

 

[MisterE]

My somewhat uneducated view is that the rapture is imminent. The return of Christ will be imminent about 7 years after that.

The 2nd coming is not imminent. There are many signs that must take place before Christ will return at the 2nd coming. It is anything but imminent.

 

[onlysaved]

The 2nd coming is not imminent. There are many signs that must take place before Christ will return at the 2nd coming. It is anything but imminent.

Ok whatever..it's a stupid thing to argue about..... the Apostles thought it was imminent in their time though..

 

[Fish153]

Ok whatever..it's a stupid thing to argue about..... the Apostles thought it was imminent in their time though..

You are absolutely correct. You will notice that even Paul when he speaks will say: "After that, WE who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so WE will be with the Lord forever". (1 Thess. 4:17).

Paul was unsure when Christ would return. Most people don't understand or see that there are TWO PHASES of the return of Christ. The first, as he returns "as a thief" FOR HIS CHURCH. This is the rapture--he will secretly steal away his church to Heaven. Believers will be aware it has happened, while the world will look on in wonder. This PHASE of His return could come at ANY TIME. That is why Paul says "we" when referring to it. The SECOND phase of His return is when he comes WITH HIS CHURCH. Enoch mentions that phase when he says "the Lord comes with his ten thousands and with the clouds of Heaven". Also Revelation 1 speaks of this second phase when it says "every eye will see him". This phase of his return can be counted down almost to the day based on the Tribulation---in this phase Jesus will finally put his feet down on the Mount of Olives and defeat the Anti-Christ forever.

So, you are absolutely correct-----the return of CHRIST is ALWAYS IMMINENT---because we do not know when it will take place. There are "birth pangs" that show us it is much closer--but we still don't know the day or the hour of the Rapture.

 

[MisterE]

Ok whatever..it's a stupid thing to argue about..... the Apostles thought it was imminent in their time though..

Not the 2nd coming, the rapture was imminent.

 

[onlysaved]

Not the 2nd coming, the rapture was imminent.

Yes I agree

 

[JLB]

That conclusion being that the most loving thing ever done in History was God sending His Son to die for the sins of all mankind.
Therefore God loves all of mankind.
It's sad that so few love Him back and just as sad that those of us who do love Him do it so poorly.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son."

Amen!

 

[JLB]

Just wanted to add this to what you have already said here.

Daniel 7-8 the little horn/4th beast

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

Rev 12:3 the other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been cast out of heaven until the beginning of the 3 1/2 year tribulation. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This is also confirmed in Rev 17 as mystery Babylon is described. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty with the Muslims in which the Dome of the Rock will be given over to the son of perdition as he reigns from the very Temple mount of God. This is the abomination Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15, 16 that we are to flee from when we see the son of perdition take his seat in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years.

Rev 13 the beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and a false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire that received its deadly wound back in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. That caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (ten horns). The wound was healed in 1929 by Mussolini.

The modern day Ten Kingdoms of the NWO are listed below:

Kingdom 1: Canada, Mexico and the United States of America
Kingdom 2: European Union – Western Europe
Kingdom 3: Japan
Kingdom 4: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel and Pacific Islands
Kingdom 5: Eastern Europe
Kingdom 6: Latin America, Central and South America
Kingdom 7: North Africa and the Middle East
Kingdom 8: Central Africa
Kingdom 9: South and Southeast Asia
Kingdom 10: Central Asia

Amen.

 

[for_his_glory]

Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland in the 1800’s had a vision of a pretrib rapture, but she felt that the vision felt dark and evil as an untruth. When telling others of her vision many preachers ran with it as being true and started teaching their theories on pretrib rapture. There theories were handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something.

The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1 Corinthians15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1Corinthians 15:51-58. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.

Reference:
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16
Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:
1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery
2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[MisterE]

The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God,

See my article on this, this is a false claim. The word rapture appears several times in the NT, and it appears in the context of the Tribulation.

 

[for_his_glory]

See my article on this, this is a false claim. The word rapture appears several times in the NT, and it appears in the context of the Tribulation.

Please show me the scripture where the word Rapture appears in or any scripture that says it will be before the seven trumpets sounding.

 

[MisterE]

Please show me the scripture where the word Rapture appears in or any scripture that says it will be before the seven trumpets sounding.

1 Thes 4.17 7 ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα

I do not use translations but the NT Greek Text since that is the language that Paul wrote in. The wording of translations is the opinion of man. If you can't read the Greek NT, you are at a lose as to what the actual wording of a biblical text is.

The 7 trumpets happen during the tribulation, but see Rev 3.10. We are exempt from the wrath to come. See also 1 Thes 1.10, and if I weren't at lunch I would be glad to give you more passages. Just a thought here: bear in mind the 7th trumpet is not the last trumpet.

 

[for_his_glory]

1 Thes 4.17 7 ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα

I do not use translations but the NT Greek Text since that is the language that Paul wrote in. The wording of translations is the opinion of man. If you can't read the Greek NT, you are at a lose as to what the actual wording of a biblical text is.

The 7 trumpets happen during the tribulation, but see Rev 3.10. We are exempt from the wrath to come. See also 1 Thes 1.10, and if I weren't at lunch I would be glad to give you more passages. Just a thought here: bear in mind the 7th trumpet is not the last trumpet.

I'm glad you can read fluent Greek, but I do not need to read fluent Greek to understand that which Christ had translated into the English for our learning.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[MisterE]

I'm glad you can read fluent Greek, but I do not need to read fluent Greek to understand that which Christ had translated into the English for our learning.

That would mean that tens of millions of believers can not learn what the Bible says because tens of millions do not read in English. Who knows how many millions of believers are at a very big disadvantage. I guess we could find these believers and teach them English and then they can start to learn some things about the Word.

 

[MisterE]

Oseas, how do you know for sure that that interpretation is a "doctrine of demons," just because it is different from your interpretation? It might be just a different way of looking at it. It's very hard to interpret prophecies before they are fulfilled; Christians can disagree on them.

It is not an issue of different interpretations but different interpretation methods. I take the scriptures in their cultural context, literal, and grammatical, etc.

Others have a spiritualized method of interpretation; some have a metaphorical method. There are other methods, so the root issue of different is not the text, but how one interprets the text.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That's only your interpretation that you have read into the prophecy about Jesus. I think it's a prophecy about Jesus' ministry during his first coming.

His first coming only fulfilled part of it. Jesus preached this portion of Scripture in the synagogue, it is noteworthy he stopped at "proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord," the rest was left out, so it wasn't fulfilled. I didn't read anything into it.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

See my article on this, this is a false claim. The word rapture appears several times in the NT, and it appears in the context of the Tribulation.

Where, specifically, MisterE, the word "rapture" appear in the New Testament?

See my article on this, this is a false claim. The word rapture appears several times in the NT, and it appears in the context of the Tribulation.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

His first coming only fulfilled part of it. Jesus preached this portion of Scripture in the synagogue, it is noteworthy he stopped at "proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord," the rest was left out, so it wasn't fulfilled. I didn't read anything into it.

You say that because Jesus didn't read further, it wasn't fulfilled. How can you know that link?