Bible Study Is the Charismatic Movement Dangerous and Heretical?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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There are NO apostles today-
Scriptural Basis
Ephesians 4:11-13
Text:
"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."
Explanation:
This passage is often cited to support the continuation of Apostles and Prophets in the church. The phrase "until we all attain to the unity of the faith" suggests that these roles are needed until the church reaches full maturity and unity, which many interpret as an ongoing process.
1 Corinthians 12:28
Text:
"And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues."
Explanation:
This passage lists Apostles and Prophets among other roles and gifts given to the church. The continuous present tense used in the Greek can imply ongoing roles.
Acts 2:17-18
Text:
"'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.'"
Explanation:
Quoting the prophet Joel, this passage from Acts suggests a broad distribution of prophetic gifts in the "last days," which many believe extends to the current age.
Theological Perspectives
Continuationism
Continuationists believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including the roles of Apostles and Prophets, continue to this day. They argue that the church has not yet reached the full unity and maturity described in Ephesians 4:13. Therefore, these roles are still necessary for equipping the saints and building up the body of Christ. Continuationists often point to ongoing charismatic movements and modern prophetic experiences as evidence.
Cessationism
Cessationists believe that the Apostolic and Prophetic offices were foundational for the early church and ceased with the closing of the biblical canon. They argue that the term "Apostle" specifically refers to those who were eyewitnesses of the resurrected Christ and had a unique, foundational role in establishing the church (Ephesians 2:20). Cessationists often cite passages like 1 Corinthians 13:8-10, interpreting the "perfect" as the completed canon of Scripture, thereby rendering certain gifts unnecessary.
Historical and Denominational Views
Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches: Generally do not recognize contemporary Apostles and Prophets in the same sense as the New Testament figures, although they acknowledge ongoing prophetic and pastoral guidance through the Holy Spirit.
Protestant Denominations: Views vary widely. Mainline Protestant denominations (e.g., Lutheran, Reformed) tend to be more cessationist, while Pentecostal and Charismatic denominations are predominantly continuationist, affirming modern Apostles and Prophets.
Non-Denominational and Independent Churches: Many hold to a continuationist view, embracing modern Apostles and Prophets as vital for contemporary church life.
Conclusion
The belief in the continuation of Apostles and Prophets today is supported by certain interpretations of scriptural passages, particularly within the framework of continuationism. It is essential to recognize the diversity of thought within the Christian community on this issue. Whether one believes in the continuation or cessation of these roles often depends on theological perspective, denominational background, and interpretation of specific biblical texts.
Voddie said it well.
God bless
Johann.
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16
Do you believe there are Pastors and Teachers today?
Do you believe there are Evangelists today?
Do you believe the body of Christ is united in doctrine or still blown about by every wind of doctrine?
JLB
Did you give the video clip a listen? Very short.
Are the offices of apostle and prophet being restored in the church today?
Apostles and prophets clearly existed in New Testament times. Some argue these offices exist today. Is this true?
There are three main views: 1) Yes, God is restoring apostles and prophets today, 2) Apostles and prophets have existed since New Testament times and are therefore not being restored since they have not ended, or 3) No, God is not restoring apostles and prophets today.
Those who argue for the first view claim that certain healings or prophecies experienced today "prove" that certain people are modern-day prophets or apostles. Any such claim based on experiences is one fraught with problems. Scripture often warns against false teachers who lead others astray through miracles and false powers. Experience is not sufficient evidence to support whether a person is an apostle or prophet today.
Second, there are those who believe apostles and prophets have existed since New Testament times and are therefore not being restored since they never ended. The concern in this case is in how one defines what makes a person an apostle or prophet. In a strict sense, only the 12 apostles and a few others in the New Testament were clearly noted as apostles. However, the word "apostle" means "sent one" and in a general sense could refer to a missionary type of worker. The same problem exists in defining a prophet. In a general sense, a prophet is one who tells the truth about God. However, the New Testament only mentions a small number of people specifically as prophets. In either case, those who hold this view do not see apostles and prophets making a "comeback" because they have existed throughout the history of the church.
The third view argues God is not restoring apostles and prophets today. Based on a stricter definition of apostle and prophet, those holding this view argue that the apostles and prophets only existed during the first generation of the church and are no longer necessary for the church's health and growth.
Some support this view with the fact that Scripture speaks of prophets and apostles in the past tense in Jude 1:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:2. Hebrews 2:3-4 speaks of these leaders as operating in the past as well. Though not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, this third view appears to be the best supported by Scripture and supports that apostles and prophets are not being restored today.
Are the offices of apostle and prophet being restored in the church today?
Are the offices of apostle and prophet being restored in the church today? Do apostles and prophets exist today in the same way they did in the New Testament? Is God restoring apostles and prophets to the church?
www.compellingtruth.org
J.
I have watched that clip and several by Voddie as well as John Macarthur, his mentor.
They are deceived by many things.
Amen to that.
We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18
The best way to walk in freedom and avoid being deceived is to continue in His doctrine; the doctrine of Christ.
To love the truth -
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9
JLB
Reformed Theology.
Calling the the Holy Spirit who is leading certain people who pray in tongues, and cast out devils, and operate by the Holy Spirit... the devil.
Can not what?
My opinion of who is or who is not an apostle or a prophet means nothing.
Your opinion of who is or who is not an apostle or a prophet means nothing.
Someone saying "they" are an apostle or prophet doesn't make them so.
What Jesus Christ our LORD says is what matters.
Now back to the only thing that matters.
Show me a scripture (something inspired by Jesus) that says that there are no apostles and prophets.
Why do you believe there are today, Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists, but no Prophets or Apostles?
Also, please show me a scripture that says the baptism with the Holy Spirit has ceased.
JLB
I don't know what kind of proof you are looking for from man.
You kinda sound like an atheist asking for proof of God's existence.
Here is the proof I go by -
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, Ephesians 4:11-14
Has the body of Christ come to the unity of faith?
Does the body of Christ still have some growing to do?
Does the body of Christ still need... evangelists, pastors and teachers?
Where are the apostles and prophets today?
That is my question.
I see it in the Bible, where are they today?
Not in the hospitals healing the sick, curing diseases and the like.
Not in the cemetaries raising the dead.
Do not need prophecy about anything, the Bible is the final word.
Cessationism is not well received
Classic example of quoting a "one verse theology" but not doing the proper hermeneutics.
J.
I distinguish mainline Pentecostals (i.e. Michael Brown) from what I call hyper-charismatics. With the former I have much in common doctrinally and in practice, though as a conservative Baptist I don't hold as firmly to the Continuationist perspective as Pentecostals typically do. Without hesitation or reservation, I hold mainline Pentecostals to be brethren in the faith.
With the latter, though, I diverge sharply in basic doctrine and practice. Who are the hyper-charismatics in my view? Folk like Benny Hinn, Todd White, Kenneth Copeland - the Word of Faith proponents, basically - and most of the New Apostolic Reformation bunch (Bill Johnson, Rich Joyner, C. Peter Wagner, etc.).
A hyper-charismatic believer (as opposed to a merely Pentecostal one) is highly sensual in their faith, constantly looking for, and needing, the stimulation of their physical - that is, fleshly - senses in the enacting of their spiritual living. They crave sensations - tingles, zaps, warm oozies - in regular verification of God's presence; they are constantly attending conferences where the Mob mentality can overtake them and they can indulge without censure in all the "spiritual" sensuality they desire (e.g. hysterical convulsing on the floor, cackling like a maniac); they are also usually woefully-ignorant of God's word, but giving careful attention to the dreams, visions, prophecies and teachings of their favorite "wolf in sheeps' clothing"; they want, not to walk by faith, but by sight, (the opposite of 2 Corinthians 5:7), always seeking exciting supernatural "signs," pressing for greater material gain, and blaspheming the Holy Spirit as they attempt to "toke" the Spirit like he was a joint of pot, or "soak" in him as though he were a hot-tub, or get drunk on the Spirit, as if he were a bottle of whisky. Horrible.
See Jude 1:8-16, Romans 8:5-8, Galatians 5:17, Galatians 6:7-8.