Is The Law of God Still in Force Today ?/Matthew 5:17,18

[Jethro Bodine]

Another misunderstanding you have is who the Husband is in Romans 7.


1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another--to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. Romans 7:1-4


The husband is a reference to the Lord before He was crucified and Raised from the dead.


31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jeremiah 31:31-33

You're contradicting your own doctrine by saying we were under the law before Christ. You have been insisting this is not true. Make up your mind!

Do you see the analogy and the context Paul uses in reference to the New Covenant.

The Husband is the Lord, not your flesh.

Your SECOND husband is the Lord. We were married to, and in marital bondage to 'husband' flesh before we were joined to Christ. We obeyed the desires of old husband flesh like a woman is supposed to obey the desires of her husband. Paul explains how it is the law that kept us in that marital bondage to the sin nature. Neither God nor the law is the lousy first husband we were in obedient bondage to. Sinful flesh is!

Your flesh has not been raised from the dead.

Right. First husband, 'flesh', is dead and gone. And because that's true the law can not enforce an obedient relationship with a husband who has died. His death sets me free to now be joined in holy matrimony to new husband Jesus. Now I operate in obedience to that husband.

As long as you don't get these three area's in you doctrine in order, then those whom you are trying to bring this message to will reject your doctrine.

He who has ears to hear will hear.

 

[JLB]

Your flesh has not been raised from the dead.

Jethro said -

Right. First husband, 'flesh', is dead and gone. And because that's true the law can not enforce an obedient relationship with a husband who has died. His death sets me free to now be joined in holy matrimony to new husband Jesus. Now I operate in obedience to that husband.

Jethro, your flesh has not been raised from the dead.

You flesh is not gone. You are still wearing the same flesh that you were born with. ...to the law of sin which is in my members.

...with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

The same flesh that now presently wars with the new nature within you, your born again spirit, is the same flesh that you were born with and will one day physically literally die.


23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:23-25



Probably, the the most obvious thing for you to do, is look at Paul's opening statement, and understand the context.

1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

Gentiles were not under the law of Moses, the law that he uses his analogy from.

Paul is speaking to those who know the law and understand what he is saying, and more importantly, to those whom the Lord was a Husband.

The Lord did not claim to be a Husband to the Gentile nations, but to those who were the natural offspring of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.





JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Good explanation. We can see, then, the sense in how the gentiles also were 'under' the law. They were under the condemnation of the law for various violations of the law, just as the Jews were.

Yes, we are all condemned by God laws, whether they be through the Law of Moses or Laws given before the Law of Moses. All men are without excuse. No man will be able to stand before a just God and say, well I was never taught the Law of Moses so how I was I to know about righteousness.Paul says this straight away in Romans 1. He proves that all have sinned and fall short of the righteousness of God.

Note also that the requirement for circumcision, for example, did not get abolished and nullified at the cross, but rather fulfilled at the cross in the way of the cutting away and death of the sin nature--the law of Moses being fulfilled, not nullified in this matter. The confusion for many coming in the fact that it is the literal WAY that circumcision is performed is what got set aside as obsolete and unneeded now, not the righteous requirement for circumcision itself. Faith in Christ upholding and fulfilling that righteous requirement of the law.

Circumcision did not come through the Law of Moses but by the Law given to Abraham. The Law of Moses repeats this Law. The Law against murder did not come by the Law of Moses but by the Laws given to Adam, Cain knew it was wrong to murder Abel. Job made sacrifices for the atonement of the sin of his children. God told Noah about clean and unclean animals.
The people God destroyed in the flood were not without God's Laws. They were without excuse in their unrighteousness.
So I agree that when we walk in the Spirit, we uphold, even declare, the righteousness of God's law, no matter to whom or how it was given.

The literal can be laid aside because it is not necessary for a person brought near to God through the circumcision of Christ to be brought near to God through the circumcision of Moses. Christ didn't nullify that literal requirement. He made it so it's simply not needed anymore. The circumcision by Christ being recognized by God as the required circumcision to be in covenant with Him and his people.

Circumcision was not by Moses, circumcision was by Abraham the man who believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.
Agreed, Christ did not nullify the Law of Moses, He filled it perfectly. Remember when John said that he should not be baptizing Jesus and Jesus said that all righteousness must be filled?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Jesus was not just circumcised on the eight day, He also filled the mikvah, Jewish baptism (John's baptism), then on the cross He fulfilled the sacrifice for atonement of sin.
Both the world and the believer come face to face with the righteousness of Christ. A righteousness that we can never perfectly accomplish. John 16:10. Christ's righteousness outshines the Law of Moses. Even on the very day it was given it's glory already began to fade away.

Why is it so important to you to somehow prove that gentiles are under the Law of Moses? If you witness to a gentile would you say to them, if you don't wear a tzitzit you are condemned and need a Savior? Even a Messianic Jew would never say such a thing to a gentile.

 

[jasonc]

Yes, we are all condemned by God laws, whether they be through the Law of Moses or Laws given before the Law of Moses. All men are without excuse. No man will be able to stand before a just God and say, well I was never taught the Law of Moses so how I was I to know about righteousness.Paul says this straight away in Romans 1. He proves that all have sinned and fall short of the righteousness of God.

Circumcision did not come through the Law of Moses but by the Law given to Abraham. The Law of Moses repeats this Law. The Law against murder did not come by the Law of Moses but by the Laws given to Adam, Cain knew it was wrong to murder Abel. Job made sacrifices for the atonement of the sin of his children. God told Noah about clean and unclean animals.
The people God destroyed in the flood were not without God's Laws. They were without excuse in their unrighteousness.
So I agree that when we walk in the Spirit, we uphold, even declare, the righteousness of God's law, no matter to whom or how it was given.

Circumcision was not by Moses, circumcision was by Abraham the man who believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.
Agreed, Christ did not nullify the Law of Moses, He filled it perfectly. Remember when John said that he should not be baptizing Jesus and Jesus said that all righteousness must be filled?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Jesus was not just circumcised on the eight day, He also filled the mikvah, Jewish baptism (John's baptism), then on the cross He fulfilled the sacrifice for atonement of sin.
Both the world and the believer come face to face with the righteousness of Christ. A righteousness that we can never perfectly accomplish. John 16:10. Christ's righteousness outshines the Law of Moses. Even on the very day it was given it's glory already began to fade away.

Why is it so important to you to somehow prove that gentiles are under the Law of Moses? If you witness to a gentile would you say to them, if you don't wear a tzitzit you are condemned and need a Savior? Even a Messianic Jew would never say such a thing to a gentile.

the torah was given to the nation of isreal but was the nation of isreal to make Hebrews out of the goyim isn't clearly stated. its allowed for a goy to become a Hebrew and do the torah, but there is that oral tradition of the seven noahide laws.

 

[reba]

This forever topic ....when i notice it i want to scream to those who believer the Laws of God a no longer valid..

If you think the Gods law are not valid .. Worship an idle.. Take His name in vain.... Cheat on your spouse.. teach your kids how to lie ... go murder some one.... etc.

What about those who insist THEY keep the laws...I want to scream you cant IF the laws could have been kept we would not have needed The Cross.

Then we hear Moses' law ... Where did Moses get' em... if not from God....

Balance folks balance... The laws will not save any one .. ignoring the laws wont save ya either... We need not wear a little box of laws on our foreheads for He has written them in our hearts.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[WalterandDebbie]

the torah was given to the nation of isreal but was the nation of isreal to make Hebrews out of the goyim isn't clearly stated. its allowed for a goy to become a Hebrew and do the torah, but there is that oral tradition of the seven noahide laws.

Romans 3:19-31.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:19-31King James Version (KJV)

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Your flesh has not been raised from the dead.

Jethro, your flesh has not been raised from the dead.

Why did you feel compelled to say this, again, when I just told you this?:

Right. First husband, 'flesh', is dead and gone.

And, you better start answering the questions I've been asking you, because I'm going to keep asking them.

Why did you say Christ died to set us free from a law that we were never under to begin with?

And since you say we were never under the law of Moses to begin with, and so by extension don't have to fulfill it now, why does Paul command us to do that which fulfills, not nullifies, the law of Moses? He did not say my obedient faith fulfills another law, he said it fulfills the law of Moses.

If we fulfill another law and not the law of Moses, how does that not leave the law of Moses nullified? I need to know because Jesus plainly said he did not come to make it so the law of Moses gets nullified and abolished. So you have some explaining to do as to why your doctrine has interpreted the work of Christ as nullifying the law of Moses so that we don't have to fulfill it by our faith in Christ, as Paul said faith does, but rather that faith fulfills another law.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

If you look at Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

"I will put my law in their inward parts". To me that sounds like something in the dna. I without a doubt cannot consume any amount of caffeine without severe consequences. I can do any drug on the table if I wanted and it doesnt seem like quite as bad an insult to my temple as caffeine. I have also found my imagination doesn't seem to exist without caffeine. According to the bible the imagination is evil.

 

[jasonc]

This forever topic ....when i notice it i want to scream to those who believer the Laws of God a no longer valid..

If you think the Gods law are not valid .. Worship an idle.. Take His name in vain.... Cheat on your spouse.. teach your kids how to lie ... go murder some one.... etc.

What about those who insist THEY keep the laws...I want to scream you cant IF the laws could have been kept we would not have needed The Cross.

Then we hear Moses' law ... Where did Moses get' em... if not from God....

Balance folks balance... The laws will not save any one .. ignoring the laws wont save ya either... We need not wear a little box of laws on our foreheads for He has written them in our hearts.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

forehead and right shoulder/mid arm if I recall correctly.

 

[JLB]

Good grief, JLB, if you don't know TOG's stance on eating pork you're simply not paying attention, lol.

What's he refusing to do is enter into the unfair confines of how you want him to answer your question. We all know his stance on pork.

Oh, by the way. Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes, or no. That's all, nothing more.

I don't know his stance on eating pork.

He won't answer this simple question.

I would be willing to bet he thinks eating pork is sin, just like the other person on this thread who says it is.

Ok.

If you have a question you want to ask me that concerns scripture then ask it.

One question at a time, with the scripture.


JLB

 

[Malachi]

If you look at Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

When God said "I will put my Law" what exactly was He saying, and what did Christ (and Christ through Paul) have to say about it? After all, Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant.

Most Christians are not taught about the Law of Moses properly -- they are not taught to distinguish between:
1. The moral and spiritual Law (the Ten Commandments) which is also within the conscience of Gentiles outside the Law.
2. The civil or social laws governing Israel
3. The criminal laws governing Israel
4. The laws pertaining to the Tabernacle and the Temple, the offerings, the sacrifices, the feasts, the priests, and the Levites.

It is the moral and spiritual laws which God would put into the hearts of His people through the New Birth and the indwelling Holy Spirit, and all these laws are encapsulated in one word "Love" (Gk Agape). This is God's love working in and through His people and fulfilling every aspect of the Ten Commandments (provided they are spiritual and Spirit controlled). So the Ten Commandments have effectively become the Law of Christ or the Law of Love. This is so simple, and yet people continue to stumble over this fundamental truth.

There is no going back to Moses. Everything pertaining to the Temple, offerings, sacrifices, feasts, etc. was "shadows". Study the book of Hebrews in depth. The substance is now in Heaven. Those laws are no longer necessary. Since Western nations have their civil and criminal laws based essentially on the Old Testament, those have become part of the justice systems (more or less).

The mistake that the Jews made (and continue to make) was to believe that "Torah observance" would make them righteous in God's eyes. They forgot entirely that from Abel downwards, sinners were saved by grace through faith, and not of works. And since the coming of Christ, they must receive Him as their Lord and Savior.

 

[Deborah13]

This forever topic ....when i notice it i want to scream to those who believer the Laws of God a no longer valid..

If you think the Gods law are not valid .. Worship an idle.. Take His name in vain.... Cheat on your spouse.. teach your kids how to lie ... go murder some one.... etc.

What about those who insist THEY keep the laws...I want to scream you cant IF the laws could have been kept we would not have needed The Cross.

Then we hear Moses' law ... Where did Moses get' em... if not from God....

Balance folks balance... The laws will not save any one .. ignoring the laws wont save ya either... We need not wear a little box of laws on our foreheads for He has written them in our hearts.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I don't believe that all God's Laws are not still in effect.
Here are four commands, laws, given by God.
1. don't steal
2. only eat clean foods
3. wear tzitzit - think that men only
4. sleep in a separate bed and sit on separate cushion covers
Of those four commands, I observe one, I don't steal.

 

[reba]

O i wish this thread had a like button Deborah13

 

[TOG]

O i wish this thread had a like button Deborah13

I was going to like your post, but there was no like button.

This forever topic ....when i notice it i want to scream to those who believer the Laws of God a no longer valid..

If you think the Gods law are not valid .. Worship an idle.. Take His name in vain.... Cheat on your spouse.. teach your kids how to lie ... go murder some one.... etc.

What about those who insist THEY keep the laws...I want to scream you cant IF the laws could have been kept we would not have needed The Cross.

Then we hear Moses' law ... Where did Moses get' em... if not from God....

Balance folks balance... The laws will not save any one .. ignoring the laws wont save ya either... We need not wear a little box of laws on our foreheads for He has written them in our hearts.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The TOG​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't believe that all God's Laws are not still in effect.
Here are four commands, laws, given by God.
1. don't steal
2. only eat clean foods
3. wear tzitzit - think that men only
4. sleep in a separate bed and sit on separate cushion covers
Of those four commands, I observe one, I don't steal.

Are you sure you don't want to complicate this with a discussion about 'another' law, or something else like that to avoid the obvious that it is the law of Moses that gets upheld and fulfilled in this New Covenant?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This forever topic ....when i notice it i want to scream to those who believer the Laws of God a no longer valid..

If you think the Gods law are not valid .. Worship an idle.. Take His name in vain.... Cheat on your spouse.. teach your kids how to lie ... go murder some one.... etc.

What about those who insist THEY keep the laws...I want to scream you cant IF the laws could have been kept we would not have needed The Cross.

Then we hear Moses' law ... Where did Moses get' em... if not from God....

Balance folks balance... The laws will not save any one .. ignoring the laws wont save ya either... We need not wear a little box of laws on our foreheads for He has written them in our hearts.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I want to scream whenever I see someone going to ridiculous lengths to make it so the law of Moses is not being kept, fulfilled, upheld, satisfied, or even acknowledged in any way shape or form in this New Covenant out of some misguided fear that it would be contrary to faith in Christ to do so. Look at all the confusion and complication that happens when one tries to do that. This subject is really very simple to understand once you see the truth about it. But I know there is a lot of indoctrination to overcome to get to that simple truth.

 

[JLB]

Malachi said -

.It is the moral and spiritual laws which God would put into the hearts of His people through the New Birth and the indwelling Holy Spirit, and all these laws are encapsulated in one word "Love" (Gk Agape). This is God's love working in and through His people and fulfilling every aspect of the Ten Commandments (provided they are spiritual and Spirit controlled). So the Ten Commandments have effectively become the Law of Christ or the Law of Love. This is so simple, and yet people continue to stumble over this fundamental truth.

Amen.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Amen.


JLB

How dare you 'amen' his post.

Not only does he say things you have repeatedly resisted, but these are the very things I've been saying all along.

 

[JLB]

I want to scream whenever I see someone going to ridiculous lengths to make it so the law of Moses is not being kept, fulfilled, upheld, satisfied, or even acknowledged in any way shape or form in this New Covenant out of some misguided fear that it would be contrary to faith in Christ to do so. Look at all the confusion and complication that happens when one tries to do that. This subject is really very simple to understand once you see the truth about it. But I know there is a lot of indoctrination to overcome to get to that simple truth.

What is even more ridiculous is to think that the phrase - the law was added until the Seed should come doesn't mean it was temporary.

The law of God, which is called the law of Christ or the law of Love or the Royal law is the 10 commandments.


The law of Moses that was added until the Seed should come was temporary, and has been made obsolete, nailed to the cross and has been taken out of the way.


The Gentiles were never under the law of Moses.

The Gentiles were always under the law of God.


JLB

 

[JLB]

How dare you 'amen' his post.

Not only does he say things you have repeatedly resisted, but these are the very things I've been saying all along.

Couldn't be farther from the truth.