Is the one God the trinity or the Father?

[English]

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The Holy Spirit brought Y'SHUA to life within Mary. Thus Y'SHUA became the intermediary between the mortal and eternal. So the word was spoken and the Holy Spirit brought Him to life within her, just as YHVH spoke and said, "let there be light" in the beginning.

 

[wavy]

Yes, I have yet to see anyone actually address the original post point by point, so thanx for the backup, English.

But as far as John 1:1, I believe it is saying that Yeshua was with the Father God and was God (as in within the Father, as he came out from the Father [John 16:27-28] and is the expression of his nature [Hebrews 1:3], thus they do share an ontology).

 

[English]

Hi Wavy,

But also Phillipians 2:8 says he was made in the likeness of men too.

Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

So you have both items. One says he was the likeness of God and the other says he was the likeness of men. In a similar way, it also says that Adam too bore the likeness of God. Thus both natures are present within Y'SHUA as it was so with Adam. So whichever way you look at it, it is still acceptable to refer to the Lord as an intermediary.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

What are your focal points? What is a focal point? If I said to you, "Is the computer in front of you moving?" then what would you say? You would say that from your desk your computer is not moving because it is stationary on its desk. If I put you on the moon with a powerful telescope and asked you to look through your window and tell me if your computer was moving, you would have to say,"Yes..It is moving thousands of miles an hour with the speed of the earth." It all depends on your Focal Points

If I asked you to count the number of times "Faith" appears in a King James Concordance and the number of times the word "Faith" appears in the NASB Concordance, you would notice a big difference. The NASB uses the word "Faith" a lot less than the King James Concordance because translators use different synonymns to translate the Bible.

You are trying to translate definitions from literal words instead of trying to translate words from a context. Stationary words don't determine the context but the context determines what the words mean. How do you choose which English words to translate the Greek into if you don't know what you are describing? If you read a verse of the Bible, what meaning would you come away with? I took a course and our duty was to make observations about a text. I would identify the parts of speech for every word, I would count:

Repetition of Words, Contrasts, Comparisons, Lists, Cause and effect, Figures of speech, Conjunctions, Verbs, Pronouns, Questions and Answers, Dialogue, Means, Purpose/result statements, General to specific and specific to general, Conditional Clauses, Actions/Roles of God, Actions/ Roles of people, Emotional terms, Tone of the passage, Connections to other paragraphs and episodes, Shifts in the story/pivots, Interchange, Chiasm, change of genre, change of topic or theme, grammatical changes, etc.

There are some people who will work at it and make 400 observations about a single verse in order to understand the text. If you don't undestand the text, you are going to make mistakes and the reason that dictionaries have multiple meanings is because the context determines the meaning of the words and if you were learning Greek from one professor I know he would tell you to throw away your concordances because there are more expressed meanings than the dictionary gave you. People have been critical of me because my word meanings haven't showed up in the Oxford English Dictionary and my response is that the Oxford English Dictionary would be much larger if the author went through every book in the Library of Congress and showed how every word was ever used. This argument is called,"My dictionary is better than your dictionary."

Part of getting definitions comes from studying the Historical and Cultural Context. If you had to translate "butterfly" from the root "fly" and "butter", is a butterfly a special kind of fly that loses control and crash lands into butter? Translating things literally without the context will get you into trouble because there are other observations you must make.

My theology takes into account many different observations from the text of the Bible. A man doesn't preexist so you can no longer say that they are only a man when that happens. When you define words, you have to take those things into account. It is the art and science of Biblical Interpretation or "Hermeneutics". I have a couple of books which teach Hermeneutics and the teacher who taught me teaches Hermeneutics. It isn't doing things my way because it is work. Systematic theology is work and when you study something like "Faith", you have to look up every occurence of faith which includes words that mean 'faith' and synonymns which mean faith. There are broader concepts which communicate faith and you have to have the ultimate cross reference system to specify and define what is what. I spent at least 20 or more hours making observations about different verses in the Bible and it is painful because you get bored without a finished product and the end result has to be worth the amount of work or you feel that there is diminished rewards for the amount of work that you did. This post does not go into all of the things I have studied but if you want to get involved in a process that is over a lot of people's heads, you can pick up the book "Grasping God's Word" by J. Scott Duvall and J. Daniel Hays. If you do assignments from the workbook, you would be there for hours trying to get the context of a single verse of scripture.

I have no idea how all this relates to the issue at hand? It seems like another diversionary tactic?

I'll try again...

You contradicted yourself in principle by offering a premise for your case (that God and man are mutually exclusive entities) when the ultimate conclusion of your faith is that Christ is BOTH God and man, and, therefore, NOT mutually exclusive.

 

[Sothenes]

I have no idea how all this relates to the issue at hand? It seems like another diversionary tactic?

I'll try again...

You contradicted yourself in principle by offering a premise for your case (that God and man are mutually exclusive entities) when the ultimate conclusion of your faith is that Christ is BOTH God and man, and, therefore, NOT mutually exclusive.

If you have a human being that eats, sleeps and acts like a human being then we would assume that He is a human being. But if you have a human being that pre-existed, makes claims about himself, fulfills prophecy and raises himself from the dead then you can't claim he is just human because simple logic would tell you that humans don't raise themselves from the dead.

"..I have power to lay (my life) it down, and I have power to take it again..."-John 10:18

 

[BradtheImpaler]

If you have a human being that eats, sleeps and acts like a human being then we would assume that He is a human being But if you have a human being that pre-existed, makes claims about himself, fulfills prophecy and raises himself from the dead then you can't claim he is just human because simple logic would tell you that humans don't raise themselves from the dead

Well, if he is not "just human" then he wasn't human, right? Human beings are "just human". Was he human or not?

"..I have power to lay (my life) it down, and I have power to take it again..."-John 10:18

What's the rest of the verse say?

 

[Sothenes]

If you have a human being that eats, sleeps and acts like a human being then we would assume that He is a human being But if you have a human being that pre-existed, makes claims about himself, fulfills prophecy and raises himself from the dead then you can't claim he is just human because simple logic would tell you that humans don't raise themselves from the dead

Well, if he is not "just human" then he wasn't human, right? Human beings are "just human". Was he human or not?

[quote:18dee]"..I have power to lay (my life) it down, and I have power to take it again..."-John 10:18

What's the rest of the verse say?[/quote:18dee]

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Satan is a cherub and he can only be in one place at one time. "..going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it" is from Job 1:7 which shows that Satan can only be in one place at one time.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -Matthew 18:20

Jesus claims omnipresence as God because wherever two or three Christians are gathered in His name, Jesus is there. Jesus is not limited like Satan is limited.

Can a human being be in more than one place at one time? It would be impossible for a human to be at more than several church services on Sunday and a Christian could not say that they would be with all Christians on Sunday.

 

[Bubba]

In regards to the phrase "Son of God", Michael Bremmer writes:


"Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (Jn. 20.30-31). The apostle John wrote his gospel with the expressed intention of convincing his readers to believe in Jesus Christ. Part of this belief is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. On the phrase "Son of God" James Buswell writes: "Christ is called 'Son of God' scores of times in the New Testament. I take the key passage on this subject to be John 5.18, On this account rather the Judeans sought to kill him because he called himself equal with God (Jn. 5.18). In Jewish usage the term 'son of . . .' did not generally imply any subordination, but rather equality and indenity of nature. Thus Bar Kokba, who led the Jewish revolt 132-135 A. D. in the reign of Hadrian, was called by a name which means 'Son of the star.' It is supposed that he took this name to identify himself as the very star predicted in Numbers 24:17. The name Son of Consolation (Acts 4.36) doubtless means 'The Consoler.' 'Sons of Thunder' (Mark 3.17) probably means 'Thunderous Men.' 'Son of Man' especially as applied to Christ in Daniel 7:13 and constantly in the New Testament, essentially means 'The Representative of Man.' Thus for Christ to say, 'I am the Son of God' (Jn. 10.36) was understood by His contemporaries as identifying Himself as God, equal with the Father, in an unqualified sense" (Systematic Theology, p. 105).

The expression "Son of God" is used in the NT as a description of Christ's deity. For example, in Jn. 5.17-18 Jesus says, "My Father is working until now and I Myself am working. For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." The Jews understood that to be God's Son was to be equal to God. Notice Jesus does not correct their reasoning, but presents a stunning defense of His claim in verses 19-47. Likewise, in Jn. 10.30-39 there occurs a similar situation where the Jews to whom Jesus speaks with understand His claim to be the Son of God as a direct claim to deity, and, as before, Jesus does not try to correct their reasoning, but again presents a defense of His claim."


Bubba

 

[BradtheImpaler]

If you have a human being that eats, sleeps and acts like a human being then we would assume that He is a human being But if you have a human being that pre-existed, makes claims about himself, fulfills prophecy and raises himself from the dead then you can't claim he is just human because simple logic would tell you that humans don't raise themselves from the dead

Well, if he is not "just human" then he wasn't human, right? Human beings are "just human". Was he human or not?

[quote:8b25a]"..I have power to lay (my life) it down, and I have power to take it again..."-John 10:18

What's the rest of the verse say?

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Satan is a cherub and he can only be in one place at one time. "..going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it" is from Job 1:7 which shows that Satan can only be in one place at one time.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -Matthew 18:20

Jesus claims omnipresence as God because wherever two or three Christians are gathered in His name, Jesus is there. Jesus is not limited like Satan is limited.

Can a human being be in more than one place at one time? It would be impossible for a human to be at more than several church services on Sunday and a Christian could not say that they would be with all Christians on Sunday.[/quote:8b25a]

Once again you failed to address my questions. But I will give you something on yours anyway...

"So also it is written, the first man, Adam, became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" (1Cor.15:45)

I see no point in continuing since you cannot or will not respond to the point at hand

 

[wavy]

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -Matthew 18:20

Jesus claims omnipresence as God because wherever two or three Christians are gathered in His name, Jesus is there. Jesus is not limited like Satan is limited.

Can a human being be in more than one place at one time? It would be impossible for a human to be at more than several church services on Sunday and a Christian could not say that they would be with all Christians on Sunday.

Well, while I do believe he meant present by the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-18) since he was given the authority to administer it (26), this verse alone does not technically prove he is omnipresent. Examine:


1 Corinthians 5:3
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

 

[wavy]

The Jews understood that to be God's Son was to be equal to God. Notice Jesus does not correct their reasoning, but presents a stunning defense of His claim in verses 19-47. Likewise, in Jn. 10.30-39 there occurs a similar situation where the Jews to whom Jesus speaks with understand His claim to be the Son of God as a direct claim to deity, and, as before, Jesus does not try to correct their reasoning, but again presents a defense of His claim."

I disagree with him here. These verses are filled with plain and simple explanations of his submission to the Father.

John 5:19
Then answered Yeshua and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

The Jews understood that to be God's Son was to be equal to God. Notice Jesus does not correct their reasoning, but presents a stunning defense of His claim in verses 19-47. Likewise, in Jn. 10.30-39 there occurs a similar situation where the Jews to whom Jesus speaks with understand His claim to be the Son of God as a direct claim to deity, and, as before, Jesus does not try to correct their reasoning, but again presents a defense of His claim."

I disagree with him here. These verses are filled with plain and simple explanations of his submission to the Father.

John 5:19
Then answered Yeshua and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Wavy,

Ever notice how Trins will proclaim the blindness and lack of understanding of the Pharisee's EXCEPT when it comes to verses where they believe the Pharisee's are accusing Jesus of claiming to be God almighty? IOW, they are "blind guides" in general, but when they (supposedly) accuse Jesus of claiming to be God then - "well, they ought to know what he was claiming because they understood all that" :roll:

 

[Sothenes]

If you have a human being that eats, sleeps and acts like a human being then we would assume that He is a human being But if you have a human being that pre-existed, makes claims about himself, fulfills prophecy and raises himself from the dead then you can't claim he is just human because simple logic would tell you that humans don't raise themselves from the dead

Well, if he is not "just human" then he wasn't human, right? Human beings are "just human". Was he human or not?

[quote:74b5f]"..I have power to lay (my life) it down, and I have power to take it again..."-John 10:18

What's the rest of the verse say?

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Satan is a cherub and he can only be in one place at one time. "..going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it" is from Job 1:7 which shows that Satan can only be in one place at one time.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -Matthew 18:20

Jesus claims omnipresence as God because wherever two or three Christians are gathered in His name, Jesus is there. Jesus is not limited like Satan is limited.

Can a human being be in more than one place at one time? It would be impossible for a human to be at more than several church services on Sunday and a Christian could not say that they would be with all Christians on Sunday.

Once again you failed to address my questions. But I will give you something on yours anyway...

"So also it is written, the first man, Adam, became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" (1Cor.15:45)

I see no point in continuing since you cannot or will not respond to the point at hand [/quote:74b5f]

I'm not here to make your case. I am here to make my case. You can say whatever you want but you can't blame me if you don't make your case.

Let hear a correct translation:

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening (2227) spirit.

Here is a definition:

quickening

the process of showing signs of life; "the quickening of seed that will become ripe grain"

from http://www.wordreference.com/definition/quickening

Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth (2227); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

The same word 2227 is used in John 6:63 as in 1 Cor. 15:45 and the word is more defined as spirit and life.

Jesus is the spirit that gives life because when Adam ate the fruit, Adam didn't die physically right away but Adam died spiritually. No mere man can give life like that because only God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath or life that makes people live and that is the life giving spirit. You just helped me prove that Jesus is God.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

I'm not here to make your case. I am here to make my case. You can say whatever you want but you can't blame me if you don't make your case

You make my case by avoiding the hard questions.

Let hear a correct translation:

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening (2227) spirit.

Here is a definition:

quickening

the process of showing signs of life; "the quickening of seed that will become ripe grain"

from http://www.wordreference.com/definition/quickening

Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth (2227); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

The same word 2227 is used in John 6:63 as in 1 Cor. 15:45 and the word is more defined as spirit and life.

Jesus is the spirit that gives life because when Adam ate the fruit, Adam didn't die physically right away but Adam died spiritually. No mere man can give life like that because only God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath or life that makes people live and that is the life giving spirit. You just helped me prove that Jesus is God.

I guess I didn't help you enough though? Once again the obvious problems elude you. The context indicates the last Adam was made a life-giving spirit. Someone who is God himself has to be MADE into a quickening spirit?

 

[Bubba]

Come reason with me (Phil.2:1-10):
"1 If there is therefore any exhortation in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any tender mercies and compassions,
2 make full my joy, that ye be of the same mind, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind;
3 doing nothing through faction or through vainglory, but in lowliness of mind each counting the other better than himself;
4 not looking each of you to his own things, but each of you also to the things of others."

Note, that the premise is already made that we are to treat the other person as better then ourselves (vs. 3), yet we are equal. Now read on for the climax.

"5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross."

Did you grasp the logical progression, “who existing in the form of God,â€Â… He humbled Himself. Just like the preceding verses said that we are to do among ourselves. Though “existing in the form of Godâ€Â, He took “the form of a servant. The following was the final outcome.

"9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,"

This is not a mere man, This is God.

Bubba

 

[Sothenes]

I'm not here to make your case. I am here to make my case. You can say whatever you want but you can't blame me if you don't make your case

You make my case by avoiding the hard questions.

[quote:18b99]Let hear a correct translation:

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening (2227) spirit.

Here is a definition:

quickening

the process of showing signs of life; "the quickening of seed that will become ripe grain"

from http://www.wordreference.com/definition/quickening

Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth (2227); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

The same word 2227 is used in John 6:63 as in 1 Cor. 15:45 and the word is more defined as spirit and life.

Jesus is the spirit that gives life because when Adam ate the fruit, Adam didn't die physically right away but Adam died spiritually. No mere man can give life like that because only God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath or life that makes people live and that is the life giving spirit. You just helped me prove that Jesus is God.

I guess I didn't help you enough though? Once again the obvious problems elude you. The context indicates the last Adam was made a life-giving spirit. Someone who is God himself has to be MADE into a quickening spirit?[/quote:18b99]

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening (2227) spirit.

"Was made" would be in italics in any Bible because the words are not there in the original. That is why http://www.blueletterbible.org puts them in brackets. The words "was made" is in italics because they aren't there. Furthermore, you would be adding words to say that Adam was made anything other than a living soul by claiming he is a life giving spirit in the same essence as God.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

"Life" is 2416 which simply means 'life' and not 'life giving' as you could suggest. "breathed" is an interesting word in Hebrew but I want to look it up in the Greek to see if it is 2227.

 

[Bubba]

What I believe to be the issue with those who would claim that Christ was not God, is that they gravitate to all the verses which speak either to His submission or humanity, and rationalize away the verses that claim His deity. Much of Scripture is paradoxical, a good example is the suffering Messiah (Isaiah 53) in the form of the “Lamb that was slain†as compared to “Our Great God and Savior’ (Titus 2:13) and “the Lion of Judahâ€Â. Because we can’t understand how both aspects can be true, we tend to settle for what our finite minds can comprehend. Pray that your eyes and ears may be opened.
Bubba




THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST by Diane S. Dew
I. Jesus Christ was more than a "good man." He is God.
Philippians 2:6
Hebrews 1:8
A. He Himself claimed to be God.
John 4:26; 8:23; 10:30; 13:13; 14:7-10
B. He accepted worship.
Matthew 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; 18:26; 28:9, 17
Mark 5:6; Luke 24:52; John 5:22, 23; John 9:38
C. He claimed the power and authority to forgive sin.
Matthew 9:6; Mark 2:7
D. "He was God manifest in the flesh" (l Timothy 3:16), "for in
Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily"
(Colossians 2:9).
E. "God was in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:19), Who is "the
brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person...."
(Hebrews 1:3).
F. Jesus is therefore throughout scripture referred to as the
"image of God."
John 1:18; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15
Philippians 2:6
II. By the names attributed to him in scripture it can be seen that
Jesus Christ was truly God as well as man.
A. "Mighty God." Isaiah 9:6
B. The Word of God. John 1:1; Revelation 19:13, 16
C. "Immanuel," meaning "God with us." Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23
D. The Almighty. Revelation 1:8
E . The "I Am." John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14
F. "My Lord and my God!" John 20:28
G. The "Alpha and Omega" (first and last).
Isaiah 44:6; 48:12; Revelation 1:8, 11, 17; 2:8; 21:6; 22:13
H. Son of God. Matthew 17:5; Mark 1:1; Luke 1:35; 1 John 4:15
III. Jesus Christ possessed all the attributes of God.
A. He was (is) omniscient (all-knowing).
John 4:25, 26, 29; 6:64; 13:11; 19:28; 21:17
1. He knew their thoughts.
Matthew 9:4; 12:25; 22:18; Mark 2:8; 12:15
Luke 5:22; 6:8; 9:47; 11:17
John 2:24, 25; 5:42; 6:6; 16:19, 30; Acts 1:24
2. He even foretold His own death by crucifixion.
Matthew 16:21; 17:22, 23; 20:18, 19
John 2:19, 21, 22; 12:23, 24, 32-33
B. He is omnipresent (everywhere).
Matthew 18:20; 28:20; Ephesians 1:23
C. He is omnipotent (all-powerful).
Daniel 7:13, 14; Matthew 28:18
John 3:31, 35; 17:2; 1 Peter 3:22
D. He is eternal.
1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16; Revelation 1:4, 5
1. Scripture claims that Christ was pre-existent to the
creation of the world, that He was present with the
Father from the beginning of time.
Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 ("... us ... our ... our ...")
Proverbs 8:22-36; Isaiah 48:12, 16; Micah 5:2
John 1:1-3, 10; 3:13; 6:62; 17:5, 24; 8:35, 58
1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 3:9; Philippians 2:5
Colossians 1:15-19
Romans 11:36; Hebrews 1:2; Revelation 3:14
2. Jesus is "the first and the last" (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12;
Revelation 1:11, 17), the "Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end" (Revelation 1:8, 11; 2:8;
21:6; 22:13).
E. He is unchanging.
Hebrews 13:8
John 8:58; 18:6 with Exodus 3:14 ("I AM")
Revelation 1:17, 18 ("the Living One")

 

[Sothenes]

Let hear a correct translation:

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening (2227) spirit.

"The first man Adam came into existence a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But not first is the spiritual, but the soulical, afterward the spiritual. The first man is out of the earth as a source, made of earth. The second Man is out of heaven as a source."-Kenneth Wuest Translation

 

[Bubba]

Incidental Proofs of the Deity of Jesus Christ
By R.A. Torrey (1918)

"The six lines of proof of the Deity of Jesus Christ which I have given you leave no possibility of doubting that Jesus Christ is God, that Jesus of Nazareth is God manifest in a human person, that He is a being to be worshipped, even as God the Father is worshipped. But there are also incidental proofs of His absolute Deity which, if possible, are in some ways even more convincing than the direct assertions of His Deity.

1. Our Lord Jesus says in Matthew 11:28, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Now any one that makes a promise like that must either be God, or a lunatic, or an impostor. No one can give rest to all who labor and are heavy laden who come to him unless he is God, and yet Jesus Christ offers to do it. If He offers to do it and fails to do it when men come to Him, then He is either a lunatic or an impostor. If He actually does it, then beyond a question, He is God. And thousands can testify that He really does it. Thousands and tens of thousands who have labored and were heavy laden and crushed, and for whom there was no help in man, have come to Jesus Christ and He actually has given them rest. Surely then He is not merely a great man, but He is in fact God.

2. Again in John 14:1 Jesus Christ demands that we put the same faith in Him that we put in God the Father and promises that in such faith we will find a cure for all trouble and anxiety of heart. His words are, "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me." It is clear that He demands the same absolute faith to be put in Himself that is to be put in God Almighty. Now in Jeremiah 17:5, Scripture with which our Lord Jesus was perfectly familiar, we read "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man," and yet with this clear curse pronounced upon all who trust in man, Jesus Christ demands that we put trust in Him just as we put trust in God. It is the strongest possible assertion of Deity on His part. No one but God has a right to make such a demand, and Jesus Christ, when He makes this demand, must either be God or an impostor; but thousands and tens of thousands have found that when they did believe in Him just as they believe in God, their hearts were delivered from trouble no matter what their bereavement or circumstances might be.

3. Again, the Lord Jesus demanded supreme and absolute love for Himself. It is clear as day that no one but God has a right to demand such a love, but there can be no question that Jesus did demand it. In Matthew 10:37 He said to His disciples, "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me," and in Luke 14:26, 33, he says. "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple."

There can be no question that this is a demand on Jesus' part of supreme and absolute love to Himself, a love that puts even the dearest relations of life in an entirely secondary place. No one but God has a right to make any such demand, but our Lord Jesus made it, and therefore, He must be God.

4. In John 10:30 the Lord Jesus claimed absolute equality with the Father. He said, "I and my Father are one."

5. In John 14:9 our Lord Jesus went so far as to say, "...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father." He claims here to be so absolutely God that to see Him is to see the Father Who dwelleth in Him.

6. In John 17:3 He says, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." In other words, He claims that the knowledge of Himself is as essential a part of eternal life as knowledge of God the Father.

Conclusion
There is no room left to doubt the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ. It is a glorious truth. The Saviour in Whom we believe is God, a Saviour for Whom nothing is too hard, a Saviour Who can save from the uttermost and save to the uttermost. Oh, how we should rejoice that we have no merely human Saviour, but a Saviour Who is absolutely God in all of His fulness and perfection.
On the other hand, how black is the guilt of rejecting such a Saviour as this! Whoever refuses to accept Jesus as his Divine Saviour and Lord is guilty of the enormous sin of rejecting a Saviour Who is God. Many a man thinks he is good because he never stole, or committed murder, or cheated. "Of what great sin am I guilty?" he complacently asks. Have you ever accepted Jesus Christ? "No." Well, then, you are guilty of the awful and damning sin of-rejecting a Saviour Who is God."

To read the whole article, go to: http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/T ... cdeity.htm
Bubba

 

[Imagican]

Ok Bubba, to show you the falicy of your statements, I offer this:

Just common sense here folks

When Christ was tempted by Satan, would Satan offer God all that he did in order to get GOD to bow down to him and worship him? Just common sense here folks, remember? Satan tempted Christ because he KNEW who Christ was and was hoping that he could get the Son of God to falter. If there was NO possibility of Christ accepting his offer, it would have NEVER been made. Christ overcame the temptation. If He had BEEN GOD, there would have been NO importance placed upon His defeating temptation.

Wavy, I thank you brother for attempting to explain the falacy of 'trinity'. But, never forget this: There WILL be those that CHOOSE to follow lies, and for this cause God will offer strong delusion so that they will believe them. Folks, if you don't understand what this means...........It means that if you choose to follow lies, God Himself will offer you 'signs' that will strengthen your beliefs EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE WRONG.

Most that accept 'trinity' have done so through the urging of the churches. Ask to explain it, most will eventually admit that they don't 'fully' understand it. Accuse those that deny it of being 'lost' but can't even fully explain it themselves. Kinda funny huh? To believe in something NOT offered in the Word, (man-made), that they DON'T fully understand, and then tell me that I MUST accept it or I don't know Father or the Son.

You know guys, out of ALL the discussion that I have participated in concerning 'trinity', I have NOT ONCE accused those that accept it of 'being lost'. Yet I have witnessed that there seems to be a serious 'lack of love' by those that 'defend' this 'trinity'. Some even seem to get 'really angry' if others even question this doctrine. Do a little soul searchin' and see if you can figure out 'why'.