Is the soul immortal?

[guibox]

Drew,

Your analogies and views are intriguing and logical. Especially the view that an bodiless entity cannot experience emotions or physical feelings.

The Bible always uses these things to explain the experience of the whole man and always with the body. Nowhere does it support the idea that the real essence of man is an immortal, ethereal 'spirit' and the body is merely a shell.

Immortal, eternal, incorruption...all these words are never used 'outside the body' or exclusive to the body. Instead, we see that the Bible fully supports the whole constitution of man as a 'nephesh' and not a disembodied 'soul' or 'spirit'.

What is not understood fully are the anthropological views the Hebrews and Christians had. How exactly do you describe emotions and higher spiritual functions like the will? These were all labeled as part of being a 'nephesh' which is why you have phrases like 'my soul was troubled'. It is incorrect to automatically assume, based on these passages that the 'soul' was a separate conscious entity outside the body that lives on after death.
Rather this was the best way they could explain such things. The 'nephesh' was like an engine where the 'ruach' created a functional being that could not exist simply by parts but needed all of them to function. In taking away one, the others ceased to exist or function in the way they did when whole.

CP Mike laid these concepts out quite nicely but I'm afraid that they were all ignored to really see the relevance and application of 'soul' and 'spirit' to anthropological function as the Bible writers saw it.

Perhaps they can be resurrected and analyzed for future discussion.

 

[stranger]

Drew wrote:

I don't think I understand what you are saying here. In any event, my belief is that in order for any human person to be a subject of experience of any kind - to have any felt experience of one's own existence - there must be a "physical" body. In other words, I do not believe that we can experience anything , thoughts, emotions, sensations, love, joy, pain, peace - whatever, without having a body.

I want to differentiate between 'without having a body' and 'out of body experience'. . . The wording 'without having a body' in plain english would mean either:

(a) not existing OR
(b) allowing the possibility of an out of body experience provided that there was a body.

So the question I know ask is:
Q1. Do you believe a person can experience anything in an out of body experience?

In order for my point 2 to be "wrong", someone will need to show evidence that Scriptures speak against the necessity for embodiment for conscious experiences. Remember, I have not claimed anything more than consistency of my position with the Scriptures. This is not the same thing as a claim that the Scriptures support my position preferentially over other positions. There is an important difference here.

Here you have to account for the existence of the 'spiritual' apart from the 'physical'. Paul argues in 1 Cor 15 that the body is sewn perishable and raised imperishable, sown as a physical body and raised as a spiritual body. The emerging principle is this: First comes the physical then the spiritual.

Q2. With what kind of body do they come who are resurrected from the dead? (In effect the question Paul answered).

 

[Drew]

Q1. Do you believe a person can experience anything in an out of body experience?

I do not believe that out of body experiences represent the real separation of an immaterial soul from the physical body. Of course, I do not deny that people can have the experience of "seeing their body" from the outside. I just think that such experiences are not "real" - I suspect that they are "hallucinations" of a sort. I can close my eyes and imagine viewing my own body from across the room. If my imagination is vivid enough, the experience can seem quite real. But it probably is not, in point of fact, "real".

With what kind of body do they come who are resurrected from the dead?

I suggest that 1 Cor 15 is entirely compatible with the absence of an immaterial soul or spirit. I think the text simply differentiates between the "kind" of body we have now and the kind we will have in the life to come. One must be careful not to bring the following belief to the text: a "spiritual" body cannot be a "kind" of physical body.

I suspect that all that Paul is saying here is that we all will have bodies - they will be of a different kind - but they will be still be recognizable to us as "physical". We will have arms, a head, legs, etc.

Do you think that 1 Corinthians 15 can be used to argue that resurrection bodies will not be "physical" bodies? What about the seeming "physicality" of Jesus' resurrectio body? It had some different properties from our bodies, but it still meets my definition of a "physical" body.

 

[Drew]

I will add that an imperishable body can still be reasonably described as a "physical" body. There is no need to assume that if a body is imperishable / immortal, that it cannot also be physical. Were not Adam and Eve given physical, yet imperishable bodies?

 

[stranger]

I will add that an imperishable body can still be reasonably described as a "physical" body. There is no need to assume that if a body is imperishable / immortal, that it cannot also be physical. Were not Adam and Eve given physical, yet imperishable bodies?

Hi Drew,

I would agree that the resurrection body can be described as a body but not as a physical body for the simple reason that the physical body is associated with the 'perishable' body in Paul's argument. But I would use the word 'continuity' of the physical with the the spiritual body.

The case of Adam and Eve before sin entered in - yes I would agree with you. In speaking of the original temple (built by Solomon) and the rebuilt temple - the people of God were sad because the former was more glorious than the latter. In the instance of the resurrected body I am inclined to think that it will have a greater glory than that of Adam and Eve insofar as redemption can be thought of as the ultimate aim of creation.

That the resurrection body of Christ did things that embraced both the physical (fallen world) and the spiritual is self evident. One may ask which of these 'realities' is foremost - when we know that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Drew]

That the resurrection body of Christ did things that embraced both the physical (fallen world) and the spiritual is self evident. One may ask which of these 'realities' is foremost - when we know that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

I suggest that statements to the effect that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" are metaphorical and a more "technically precise" rendering might be that "in our present fallen state, we cannot inherit the kingdom of God".

On the whole, I see no scriptural reason to believe that the life to come will not be "purely physical" with the important qualification that our "physicality" will be perfected in our resurrection bodies.

 

[Vic C.]

Time out.

We are veering off course. We haven't even settled this (below) from a scriptual point of view. No offense Drew and Guibox, but there's little one can learn from one's opinions, philosophy, hypothsizing, etc.... especially without scriptual support.

Very Good Vic...I was going to use those terms, but thought they would confuse some folk, but now that you brought it up, Lets take a brief look at those terms and one more.....

This discussion would be meaningless if we omitted speaking about man's dichotomous or trichotomous nature. Let them research it for understanding, as I did.

1) Monism: ? Is there Sctiptual support ?

2) Dichotomy: ? " " " ?

3) Trichotomy: ? " " " ?

Also:

I suggest that statements to the effect that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" are metaphorical and a more "technically precise" rendering might be that "in our present fallen state, we cannot inherit the kingdom of God".

Drew, in this present, fallen state; we ARE flesh and blood. It's not our flesh and blood which are redeemed; that is partially the point of this thread.

This is about as technical as it's going to get without dissecting thr Greek.

YLT: 1 Corinthians 15:50

50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption;

LITV: 1 Corinthians 15:50

50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[Silverchild79]

I've heard that if you don't find salvation your soul ceases to exist

I've heard your tossed into a lake of fire to burn for all eternity

And I've heard that Hell is actually just a place where you are excommunicated from God and that is enough to cause you to suffer

Who's right? I dunno but I'd rather just avoid all three lol

 

[guibox]

Re: Time out.

This is about as technical as it's going to get without dissecting thr Greek.

YLT: 1 Corinthians 15:50

50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption;

LITV: 1 Corinthians 15:50

50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

So what is Paul talking about then? If we continue to read the chapter and take into account the other numerous places Paul talks about the resurrection, we see that Paul is talking about a spiritual body. I agree with Drew in that the phrase "flesh and blood" speaks about our earthly sinful bodies. 1 Cor 15:51-55 makes it plain that immortality and incorruption are realized in a spiritual body....make no mistake, it is still a body, but changed from 'flesh and blood corruption'.

Paul continually makes the link between the second resurrection and Christ's resurrection. Christ rose in a physical/spiritual body. So shall we.

Nowhere does it say that we will ascend to heaven as an immaterial soul. 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 confirms 1 Co 15 in that it is in our heavenly body that we see Christ and that eternal life is realized, and not in some ethereal essence that floats out of our body at our physical death.

Vic if you want biblical evidence, 1 Corinthians 15 says it all. Without the resurrection:

1) there is no life at all (vs15-18)

2) all those who have died are 'perished' in the grave and are still under the condemnation of their sins (vs 17,18)

3) If we don't resurrect, we might as well party hearty for there is no life after death (vs 32).

4) Eternal life is realized at the second coming and not at our physical death (vs 22,23)

5) Death is only conquered at the resurrection and not at our physical death (vs 26,54,55)

Then we can look at the words for 'soul' and 'spirit' both in the Hebrew and Greek 'nephesh/psuche' 'ruach/pneuma'. Research and biblical cross-referencing with cultural study proves that the Hebrews never thought of these concepts in dualistic terms. Nor are they EVER used to show a 'body/soul' split and reunification or that man's disembodied essence of thought, feeling and spiritual cogitation exists outside of man.

The ONLY place this concept comes from is 'and the spirit goes back to God who gave it'. However, both Ecclesiastes 12:7 and Ecclesiastes 3:19,20 shows that this 'spirit' is not man's essence for that not only cannot be proven first from the scriptures, but also that it would be ALL man's 'spirits' that go back to God and not merely those of the saved.

As I said before, CP_Mike wrote extensively on the usage of these terms in the Bible and how to understand them. They have been the most logical, compelling and thorough explanation of them to date on this forum.

 

[Drew]

From 1 Corinthians we have:

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Note the tenses and the timing: each will be made alive, Christ is raised first and only when comes will others be made alive.

Vic - additional scriptural evidence has been provided over and over again in other threads. I think the case is overwhelming - there is no immortal soul that goes off to heaven at the point of our death. If there were, then the account in 1 Corinthians would make no sense.

If there are disembodied souls in heaven right now, awaiting the conferring of this spiritual body, I assert the following: The "clothing" of an already existent and fully conscious immaterial soul in a body is not really that much of a significant event - the souls in heaven are merely given the "clothing" of this new body. If one is already fully conscious as a disembodied soul, all that really happens is that you get a "house" for this soul.

Such a state of affairs hardly seems consistent with the 1 Corinthians text, which strongly suggests a "transition into life" rather than the mere "wrapping" of already existent conscious entities in a new body.

Besides, as guibox has pointed out, CP_Mike has provided repreated expositions on the how the words "soul" and "spirit" were used in Hebrew culture. These arguments of his have gone basically unchallenged.

I suggest that many simply cannot (or will not) even entertain the possibility that words like "soul" and "spirit" meant something different to a Hebrew than they do to our heavily greek-influenced culture. As a result, we get this exceedingly complex and awkward theology where "death" (as in Romans 6;23) doesn't really mean death (just as one example).

 

[Bick]

Bick
Scripture Uses “Soul†and “Spirit†Interchangeably.

We hashed this out for so long here http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

but if you would like to continue this discussion and you are up to the challenge of trying to defend your view, then have at it....I have suspected that you believe in the false doctrine of ''Annihilation''....Are you an SDA, or JW?

JG, I am a conservative Christian, believing that the answers to man's being is found in the Scriptures, not in man's philosophies.

I believe that when "soul" is in the originals, it should be translated "soul" if at all possible; and the same for "spirit" of man.

To understand man's "spirit", using the KJV or similar versions, is difficult, because in the OT the word for "spirit" is translated 16 different ways; and in the NT it is translated 8 different ways.

It is true that what man is said to feel in his spirit is, in some instances, said to be for the soul.
For instance: In Gen. 26:35, the two wives of Esau were a bitterness of spirit to Isaac and Rebekah; in Gen 41:8, Pharoah's spirit was agitated; and many verses describe: anguish of spirit; having the spirit of wisdom; a willing spirit; God hardening a man's spirit; an abated spirit; a hard spirit; a chrushed spirit; a right spirit; a failing spirit; a broken spirit; a happy spirit; the spirit of weakness, etc.
The spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God.

Perhaps the above is why many think that "spirit" and "soul" are practically the same thing.

Again, I find from the Scriptures that "man became a living soul", not a "living spirit".

When man dies, since he is a living soul, his soul dies; that is, his consciousness, feelings, and desires are gone; they disappear. And since, IMO, "sheol" OT, and "hades" NT, mean "unseen" or "the grave", that is why David in Psa. 16:10, prophecies concerning Christ the Lord: "For thou wilt not abandon my soul to hades, Neither wilt thou suffer thy man of loving kindness, to see corruption." Rotherham Version.

And, Peter, in Acts 2:27, quotes almost the exact words.

While man's spirit is said to return to God who gave it (Eccl. 12:7; Psa. 104:24-30; Job 34:10-15).

 

[guibox]

While man's spirit is said to return to God who gave it (Eccl. 12:7; Psa. 104:24-30; Job 34:10-15).

Yes, and the only support for 'my soul going to heaven' as many would believe is in the OT reference to 'the spirit goes back to God' which was also borrowed by the NT writers in speaking of Christ and Stephen.

So what does this mean? By answering this question, we can put this matter to rest as there is NO other scriptural support that says ANYTHING goes to heaven, nevermind anything 'thinking, cogitating, feeling' part of man.

Lets look at Ecclesiastes 12:7 where this concept derives from:
Who is Solomon speaking of?

Go back to verse 3:

In the day when the keepers house shall tremble and the strong men shall bow themselves...

Then vs 5:

...and the grasshopper shall be a bufden and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home and the mourners go about the streets

then we have vs 7

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

We see here that it is the spirit of common man that goes back to God, not the 'saved souls of the righteous'.

The word for 'spirit' is 'ruach' which means 'life force', 'breath' and 'wind'

Now lets look at Ecclesiastes 3:21:

Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth

Now the SAME word for 'spirit' is 'ruach' in both cases. jg, are you willing to admit that beasts have an immortal soul? We also see that like chapter 12, it is the spirit of ALL men that goes back to God who gave it.

Now we go to the NT where this phrase is also used:

Certain translations of Christ on the cross rightly translate the KJV in this instance:

"Father into Thy hands I commit My spirit and Jesus gave up the ghost" (KJV)

as this:

"Father into Thy hands I commit My spirit, and Jesus breathed His last"

The 'pneuma' is the equivalent of the OT 'ruach' It is the life force that makes man a living, functioning, spiritual 'nephesh'. It is not the eternal, existing, cogitating, emotional and feeling part of man that exists outside the body.

jg and others, I await your analysis from the scriptures on these verses in Ecclesiastes and the meaning of 'ruach' and how it is to be applied.

 

[jgredline]

I was hoping to avoid ''another'' discussion on the soul, but here we go again. Let me go back and read the last couple of pages here and then I will address the questions.

 

[guibox]

No need, jg. Why don't you start with what I said...

Show me that my interpretation of 'and the spirit goes back to God who gave it' as is used in some form both in the OT and NT:

1) Is incorrect

2) that the Bible shows that my 'spirit' as is lingustically used is my soul and that what is given to God in heaven at death is the spiritual, disembodied essence of the Christian soul

Pretty simple challenge, don't you think?

 

[gazzamor]

Paul says in

Ro 2:7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

The reason we seek after immortality is because we don’t have it yet.
The bible is quite specific on this subject. We humans do not have immortality. God alone is immortal.

â€â€God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

We will be given immortality as a gift when Jesus comes to raise the dead, and also those who are alive at his coming.

1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changedâ€â€
1Co 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1Co 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 1Co 15:54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.â€Â

We don’t have immortality yet. and It's only When Jesus comes, He will bring his rewards with him at His second coming.

Rev 22:12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what they have done.



God Bless

gazzamor

 

[guibox]

Yes, gazzamor, the Bible is quite clear on the subject.

Unfortunately, our brethren here want to make:

'sleep' mean consciousness
'life' mean 'an immortal disembodied essence'
'death' mean 'conscious existence in a spiritual form'
'resurrection to life' mean 'uniting my already alive soul in a fleshy coat'

Thus twisting the majority of scripture to fit their Greek dualism that they bring to the text.

Out of curiousity for the folk here who like to play the cult card, what denominational affiliation are you?

 

[jgredline]

Paul says in

Ro 2:7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

The reason we seek after immortality is because we don’t have it yet.
The bible is quite specific on this subject. We humans do not have immortality. God alone is immortal.

â€â€God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

We will be given immortality as a gift when Jesus comes to raise the dead, and also those who are alive at his coming.

1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changedâ€â€
1Co 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1Co 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 1Co 15:54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.â€Â

We don’t have immortality yet. and It's only When Jesus comes, He will bring his rewards with him at His second coming.

Rev 22:12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what they have done.



God Bless

gazzamor

Matt 25 :31-46
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You? 40 And the King will answer and say to them, Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (αἰώνιος )fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.
44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You? 45 Then He will answer them, saying, Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. 46 And these will go away into everlasting (αἰώνιος ) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (αἰώνιος ) life."

This section of scripture uses the exact same greek word (αἰώνιος ) This word means 1 without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be. 2 without beginning. 3 without end, never to cease,

So the next questions that comes up is where does this everlasting punishment take place? Jesus tells us that also…
This next section od scripture describes the Judgment of the Nations, which is to be distinguished from the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Judgment of the Great White Throne.
The Judgment Seat of Christ, a time of review and reward for believers only, takes place after the Rapture (Rom. 14:10; 1 Cor. 3:11–15; 2 Cor. 5:9, 10). The Judgment of the Great White Throne takes place in eternity, after the Millennium. The wicked dead will be judged and consigned to the Lake of Fire

Rev. 20:11–15. 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

So the next question that comes up is what is eternal punishment…
Lets take a look at what this passage says in the Greek…..
Here is Matt 25:46
και απελευσονται ουτοι εις κολασιν αιωνιον οι δε δικαιοι εις ζωην αιωνιον

The Greek word for Punishment is (κόλασις) This word simply means Torment…
Now what is torment. Well, I would say being cast into the lake of fire is torment.
Certainly torment would not be anything les that what Jesus went through on his way to the cross… None the less it is for ''ALL ETERNITY''

Three other points should be mentioned. First, the kingdom is said to have been prepared for the righteous from the foundation of the world , where hell was prepared for the devil and his angels . God’s desire is that men should be blessed; hell was not originally intended for the human race. But if people willfully refuse life, they choose eternal torment…In closing I feel I need to mention this again…The Lord Jesus spoke of eternal (same word as â€Âeverlastingâ€Â) fire (v. 41), eternal punishment (v. 46), and eternal life (v. 46). The same One who taught eternal life taught eternal punishment (eternal torment). Since the same word for eternal is used to describe each, it is inconsistent to accept one without the other. If the word translated eternal does not mean everlasting, there is no word in the Greek language to convey the meaning. But we know that it does mean everlasting because it is used to describe the eternality of God (1 Tim. 1:17).
This is a good place to stop for now

 

[gazzamor]

You know Jg The bible is very easy to understand, you don’t have to be an expert in Greek and Hebrew in order to understand its message.

You have quoted a Greek word ‘(αἰώνιος ) ‘ which has the meaning of eternal. And you have said and I quote: ‘This section of scripture uses the exact same Greek word (αἰώνιος ) This word means 1 without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be. 2 without beginning. 3 without end, never to cease,’

Now if I applied your interpretation to Jude 7 which talks about the wicked suffering the effects of eternal fire. (aionios pur)

Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Then I would expect to go down to see the fires still raging at the bottom end of the Dead Sea. But all I would see is a lot of ash in that area.
Those who lived in Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding areas perished in the fires that came from God. So they cease to exist.
And what is the example? The example is to a future time when God will rain down fire and brimstone (sulphur) on the wicked.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earthâ€â€Gog and Magogâ€â€and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
Rev 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

The flames of the lake of fire will go out when everything is burned up.

God does not rain fire and brimstone onto the wicked and then gives them immortality to roast in the lake of fire for eternity. So, where are the wicked after this event?
Scripture tells me that they will be just like Sodom and Gomorrah:

Mal 4:3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,†says the LORD Almighty.

Where then are the wicked? They are not roasting in the flames of hell, they will be ashes under the soles of our feet.

And if you go down to the area where Sodom and Gomorrah was, you can walk amongst the ashes. The results of the punishment is eternal death, not eternal punishing.

The only ones who are promised immortality, are God’s children, and that is at Jesus’ second coming. We don’t have immortality yet.


God bless
Gazzamor

 

[gazzamor]

Sorry I accidentily submitted this post twice.

Gazzamor

 

[AVBunyan]

Here is a novel idea - look up the variations of the word immortal...

1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Tim 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1 Tim 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

It appears only Jesus (or the Godhead) has immortality - the rest (saved) are granted immortality.

God bless