Is the Trinity biblical and does it matter?

[Randy]

I do not recall saying Jesus called the son God but the Father is God and the son is God imo
John 1:1;;;;; 1:14;;;;;8:58

Jesus stated the Father is in Him and He in the Father. In that manner they are one. It was the Father in Him doing His work. Jesus stated he was Gods Son and that the Father was His God.
Scripture declares that Jesus is "called" both God and Son. That Jesus is the image of the invisible God and the exact representation of Gods being.

So Jesus is ALL that the Father is. God in that context but not on His own for the fullness of God that dwells in Him was from another. Self evident it can only be from the will of the mind of the Spirit. The Father. As in the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. The Spirit without limit. All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. All the fullness of God.

 

[WIP]

Jesus stated the Father is in Him and He in the Father. In that manner they are one. It was the Father in Him doing His work. Jesus stated he was Gods Son and that the Father was His God.
Scripture declares that Jesus is "called" both God and Son. That Jesus is the image of the invisible God and the exact representation of Gods being.

So Jesus is ALL that the Father is. God in that context but not on His own for the fullness of God that dwells in Him was from another. Self evident it can only be from the will of the mind of the Spirit. The Father. As in the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. The Spirit without limit. All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. All the fullness of God.

Please provide the Scripture references to support what you stated here. Not only is it important, it is to comply with the forum rules.

 

[Free]

Jesus stated the Father is in Him and He in the Father. In that manner they are one. It was the Father in Him doing His work. Jesus stated he was Gods Son and that the Father was His God.
Scripture declares that Jesus is "called" both God and Son. That Jesus is the image of the invisible God and the exact representation of Gods being.

So Jesus is ALL that the Father is. God in that context but not on His own for the fullness of God that dwells in Him was from another. Self evident it can only be from the will of the mind of the Spirit. The Father. As in the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. The Spirit without limit. All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. All the fullness of God.

Do you believe that the Son has always existed?

 

[Butch5]

Vine's Expository Dictionary:

Strong's Number: g2316
Greek: theos
God:
(A) in the polytheism of the Greeks, denoted "a god or deity," e.g., Act 14:11; 19:26; 28:6; 1Cr 8:5; Gal 4:8.
(B)
(a) Hence the word was appropriated by Jews and retained by Christians to denote "the one true God." In the Sept. theos translates (with few exceptions) the Hebrew words Elohim and Jehovah, the former indicating His power and preeminence, the latter His unoriginated, immutable, eternal and self-sustained existence.

In the NT, these and all the other Divine attributes are predicated of Him. To Him are ascribed, e.g., His unity, or monism, e.g., Mar 12:29; 1Ti 2:5; self-existence, Jhn 5:26; immutability, Jam 1:17; eternity, Rom 1:20; universality, Mat 10:29; Act 17:26-28; almighty power, Mat 19:26; infinite knowledge, Act 2:23; 15:18; Rom 11:33; creative power, Rom 11:36; 1Cr 8:6; Eph 3:9; Rev 4:11; 10:6; absolute holiness, 1Pe 1:15; 1Jo 1:5; righteousness, Jhn 17:25; faithfulness, 1Cr 1:9; 10:13; 1Th 5:24; 2Th 3:3; 1Jo 1:9; love, 1Jo 4:8, 16; mercy, Rom 9:15, 18; truthfulness, Tts 1:2; Hbr 6:18.
See GOOD, No. 1 (b).

There you go, knock yourself out and enjoy. [I suggest definition B for this discussion.]

Thanks! A is the answer I was looking for. B is an application of the word. The Jews applied Theos to the one true God and the Gentiles applied theos to their gods. so the word basically means a deity. the Deity changes depending on who is using the word.

Now we have to see where the others are.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Thanks! A is the answer I was looking for. B is an application of the word. The Jews applied Theos to the one true God and the Gentiless applied theos to their gods. so the word basically means a deity. the Deity changes depending on who is using the word.

Now we have to see where the others are.

Hmmm.....and here I was under the impression that God never changes.....

 

[Jim Parker]

I don't think you do.

What is the basis of your "thinking"?

Why not explain it for us?

I believe in one God, The Father Almighty,
creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen.

I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light, true God from true God,
Begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father
Through Him all things were made.
For us men and our salvation he came down from heaven:
By the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilot;
He suffered and died and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures;
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead
And his kingdom will never end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
Who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.

 

[Brother Mike]

The Spirit is everywhere the mind of the Spirit wills. The Holy Spirit according to Jesus does not speak on His own but what He hears.

Jesus=>But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Paul=>For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Paul=>In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

God is Spirit and the Spirit is life.
Fathers promise =>in these last days I will our out my Spirit...

Yes, the Candle of the Lord is the spirit of man...... Searching.. The Holy Spirit we are filled with Hears directly from Heaven, tongues prayers out (Praying in the Spirit) those things according to the will of God for the saints and make things work out together with that prayer for the good of those that love God and are doing what He called them to do.

Not everyone obey's and prays in tongues, not everyone is doing what the Lord designed them to do. So they don't qualify to have all things work out for good.

God bless.
Mike.

 

[atpollard]

Yes, the Candle of the Lord is the spirit of man...... Searching.. The Holy Spirit we are filled with Hears directly from Heaven, tongues prayers out (Praying in the Spirit) those things according to the will of God for the saints and make things work out together with that prayer for the good of those that love God and are doing what He called them to do.

Not everyone obey's and prays in tongues, not everyone is doing what the Lord designed them to do. So they don't qualify to have all things work out for good.

God bless.
Mike.

Sorry, but could you post some verse identification with that?

“I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means” - Inigo Montoya

 

[Jim Parker]

Where did Jesus call the Son God?

Luke 22:70 (NASB) And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

 

[Randy]

Do you believe that the Son has always existed?

Nope -Firstborn -at some point in history before the world began
I believe Jesus has always been the Son.

 

[Butch5]

What is the basis of your "thinking"?


I believe in one God, The Father Almighty,
creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen.

I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light, true God from true God,
Begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father
Through Him all things were made.
For us men and our salvation he came down from heaven:
By the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilot;
He suffered and died and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures;
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead
And his kingdom will never end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
Who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.

Do you really believe that Jim? Didn't you say that God was one being who consisted of three hypostases the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? I believe that's what you said in the other thread. Have you changed your view of the Trinity and now hold to the Nicene Creed? Look at the first verse Jim, it says I believe in one God the Father.

 

[Butch5]

Luke 22:70 (NASB) And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

Jesus didn't call the Son God. This is talking about Him being the Son of God. And the text says, 'you say that I am.'

 

[Randy]

Please provide the Scripture references to support what you stated here. Not only is it important, it is to comply with the forum rules.

John 14:10
Hebrews 1:1-4
Psalm 45:7 quoted by the writer of hebrews
John 17:22
Col 1:19
Col 2:9
Col 2:3
Hebrews 1:6

 

[Randy]

Yes, the Candle of the Lord is the spirit of man...... Searching.. The Holy Spirit we are filled with Hears directly from Heaven, tongues prayers out (Praying in the Spirit) those things according to the will of God for the saints and make things work out together with that prayer for the good of those that love God and are doing what He called them to do.

Not everyone obey's and prays in tongues, not everyone is doing what the Lord designed them to do. So they don't qualify to have all things work out for good.

God bless.
Mike.

Well I believe God formed my spirit and later I received the Holy Spirit that was sent in Jesus name.

I have never prayed in tongues. I have the Spirit of Christ in me.I have this testimony instead of tongues=>Romans 8:16
"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children"

Randy

 

[Randy]

Jesus didn't call the Son God. This is talking about Him being the Son of God. And the text says, 'you say that I am.'

This is not against what you stated above:
If we ALL want to get picky Jesus quoted the psalms "we are all called Gods". But Jesus Himself stated He was Gods Son.

Pslam 82:6 I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.

John 10:22-42 NIV

Further Conflict Over Jesus’ Claims
To those that Love Him Jesus shows Himself pure but to the devious He shows Himself shrewd: They can't outfox the Son.

22Then came the Festival of Dedicationb at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

31Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’d ? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

40Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. There he stayed, 41and many people came to him. They said, “Though John never performed a sign, all that John said about this man was true.” 42And in that place many believed in Jesus.

 

[Brother Mike]

Well I believe God formed my spirit and later I received the Holy Spirit that was sent in Jesus name.

I have never prayed in tongues. I have the Spirit of Christ in me.I have this testimony instead of tongues=>Romans 8:16
"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children"

Randy

Hey Randy, Paul called Tongues "praying the Spirit" God did form your spirit in your body, Jesus did send the Holy Spirit, and praying in the Spirit Paul called tongues.

1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

So, the spirit God put in you can also pray, and your soul (Head) can pray with things you know. Paul said let the person praying in tongues ask or get the interpretation. This gives knowledge beyond what our flesh mind (Soul) can gather.

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Tongues is for every single believer. (Not the Church operation though as things must be decent and in order and should be a known person used by God to interpret. It gets irritating with some Pentecostal services) However, Tongues for your prayer time is amazing and you can cover things you don't know knowledge wise.

I can help you with that Randy, the issue is that the gift is already promised. (Jesus said if you believe on my name, You Shall speak in new tongues) People wait around for something that is already there, and God is not going to make some miss out on a form of prayer, while others are given a better way to pray. Only the religious folks full of unbelief miss out on the great things God has given us. Their fault.

Let me know.

Mike.

 

[Free]

Do you believe that the Son has always existed?

Nope -Firstborn -at some point in history before the world began
I believe Jesus has always been the Son.

Then the Son cannot be, as you claim, "ALL that the Father is," because the Father has always existed. Care to comment on that contradiction?

 

[Free]

Tongues is for every single believer.

That is not what the Bible teaches:

1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
....
1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
1Co 12:30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way. (ESV)

Very clearly then we see that tongues is not "for every single believer."

This, however, is off-topic. I suggest starting another topic if you want to continue this discussion. If you care too, though, you can answer my previous post regarding your polytheism, for which I have asked several times now, and is on topic..

 

[Randy]

Then the Son cannot be, as you claim, "ALL that the Father is," because the Father has always existed. Care to comment on that contradiction?

But I read that He is. "The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him" If Jesus alway was and always was God He would be that fullness. Like His God. The Father.

I think its ironic that you claim contradiction. Is Jesus God or is the Father His God and the One true God?
Jesus's spirit is NOT devine. Then you have two Gods. Therefore as you read in the NT all the fullness was given from another. You should see that Father has glorified His Son above all His other children. Hebrews-"about the Son". And if Jesus is not the Fathers Son then whose Son is He?

Jesus is ALL that the Father is. He was given authority and power and glory forever from His God. He was found worthy of such gifts by God for He purchased the many for God by His blood.

And at the sounding of the 7th trump the kingdom of this world shall become the Kingdom of God and His Christ.

Randy

 

[Randy]

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Mar 16:17-18)

I just told you above with scripture tongues is a gift your spirit prays. It's how you pray in the spirit (Spirit) The Holy Ghost does not pray another way with you, helping you.

You can pray with just human reasoning, but you don't know what the Holy Spirit knows. However, if you have all you want to have and don't mind not having what is yours, then I am fine with that. I am around if you want help with it.

Mike.

The Spirit can intercede or pray for me. That isn't me praying. In fact I may not even be conscience of such a prayer. That would be the Spirit. So if thats what you mean I agree.

Romans 8:
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Jesus stated the Father already knows what we need so we don't need lengthy words in public for a show. (not that you do that)

Matthew 6:
Prayer

5“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9“This, then, is how you should pray:

“ ‘Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name,

10your kingdom come,

your will be done,

on earth as it is in heaven.

11Give us today our daily bread.

12And forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13And lead us not into temptation,a

but deliver us from the evil one.b ’

14For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.


Of course one is free to ask the Lord anything in prayer.

John 14:14
Jesus=>
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
1 John 5:14
But at the same time=>
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.