Is the Trinity biblical and does it matter?

[civilwarbuff]

It's not a dodge. It's called defining the terms. If you'll simply define the word I'll gladly answer your question.

You see, you're asking me to answer the question based on your understanding rather than mine.

Not my understanding, the apostles.....they obeyed.....that is good enough for me. Why don't you explain your understanding?

 

[Roro1972]

Where do you see two?

God the Father and God the son

 

[atpollard]

We haven't defined the word "theos" or God yet.

Vine's Expository Dictionary:

Strong's Number: g2316
Greek: theos
God:
(A) in the polytheism of the Greeks, denoted "a god or deity," e.g., Act 14:11; 19:26; 28:6; 1Cr 8:5; Gal 4:8.
(B)
(a) Hence the word was appropriated by Jews and retained by Christians to denote "the one true God." In the Sept. theos translates (with few exceptions) the Hebrew words Elohim and Jehovah, the former indicating His power and preeminence, the latter His unoriginated, immutable, eternal and self-sustained existence.

In the NT, these and all the other Divine attributes are predicated of Him. To Him are ascribed, e.g., His unity, or monism, e.g., Mar 12:29; 1Ti 2:5; self-existence, Jhn 5:26; immutability, Jam 1:17; eternity, Rom 1:20; universality, Mat 10:29; Act 17:26-28; almighty power, Mat 19:26; infinite knowledge, Act 2:23; 15:18; Rom 11:33; creative power, Rom 11:36; 1Cr 8:6; Eph 3:9; Rev 4:11; 10:6; absolute holiness, 1Pe 1:15; 1Jo 1:5; righteousness, Jhn 17:25; faithfulness, 1Cr 1:9; 10:13; 1Th 5:24; 2Th 3:3; 1Jo 1:9; love, 1Jo 4:8, 16; mercy, Rom 9:15, 18; truthfulness, Tts 1:2; Hbr 6:18.
See GOOD, No. 1 (b).

There you go, knock yourself out and enjoy. [I suggest definition B for this discussion.]

 

[Jim Parker]

I'm not the one who believes in Modalism. I believe that was you.

NO, I accept the definition of Nicaea-Constantinople.
That's trinitarian.
That's Christian.

 

[Brother Mike]

Just to be accurate. You may mean this but I want clarity.
The Holy Spirit is God. Its His (the Fathers) "being". God is Spirit. Not some other that belongs to God or was created by God. Just as your spirit is you. Your spirit searches your mind and carries out the will of your mind. (instant process) The Spirit of God knows the mind of the Spirit and carries out the will of that mind. (instant process) Since Jesus has a place on His Fathers throne (all authority) by the will of the mind of the Spirit (The Father) then Jesus wills and the Spirit will act.

God doesn't have to command His own Spirit to act. God thinks and it happens. Its His Spirit.
The Spirit testifies or bears witness from the mind of the Spirit. He speaks/conveys what He hears. They will all be taught by God. Those that listen and learn from the Father go to the Son. And Gods Christ, (Jesus), will raise us up on the last day.
Ref:At the sounding of the 7th trump of God the Kingdom of this world will become the Kingdom Of God and His Christ.
Jesus=>It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

So Gods own Spirit is not a separate distinct person from the "Father".
Randy

That might be True Randy, but God is In Heaven, the Holy Spirit is on earth. The Holy Spirit is the Power side that takes the Word Spoken by God and makes it a reality. So they are separate, the Holy Spirit does not speak but what He hears, but they also could be one and the same. All I have is scripture, and how it works 100% exactly I am not sure. The Holy Spirit won't exalt himself, or speak of Himself. God will.

It is nice to see you addressed absolutely nothing of what I posted; must mean there can be no denying that the Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity and God......

The Holy Spirit is not a 3rd person. He is The Spirit of God, Jesus is not some 2nd Person, He was given domination over all things. He is the King of Kings, and not some 2nd person.

The Trinity is a Roman Catholic concept, not a Christian concept. Rome does not follow scripture. If your Roman Catholic, then fine, but I am not.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Trinitarianism is the accepted tenet within Christianity which includes Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox. Anything outside of that is considered heresy and/or a cult.

In terms of number of adherents, nontrinitarian denominations comprise a small minority of modern Christianity. By far the three largest nontrinitarian denominations are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormons"), Jehovah's Witnesses and the Iglesia Ni Cristo , though there are a number of other smaller ones, including the Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, Dawn Bible Students, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God International and the United Church of God.[6]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism

 

[Mike]

The Trinity is a Roman Catholic concept, not a Christian concept. Rome does not follow scripture.

This is just patently false! Baptists make up the largest protestant denomination in the world, and their main branches hold to the Trinity. Pentecostals are the second largest. Of the three main branches, the two largest hold to the Trinity. The third, now called Oneness Pentecostal has roots back only to the early 20th century. The main Lutheran churches hold to it, too.

If you honestly believe what you're saying, I think you've been living in a oneness bubble. The Trinity is most certainly a Catholic AND protestant doctrine.

 

[Brother Mike]

This is just patently false! Baptists make up the largest protestant denomination in the world, and their main branches hold to the Trinity. Pentecostals are the second largest. Of the three main branches, the two largest hold to the Trinity. The third, now called Oneness Pentecostal has roots back only to the early 20th century. The main Lutheran churches hold to it, too.

If you honestly believe what you're saying, I think you've been living in a oneness bubble. The Trinity is most certainly a Catholic AND protestant doctrine.

Oneness was invented in 1914 based on early writings those claim trinity was based on. and........ I really don't care. Go back, study your history. Trinity was around long before Baptist came into being.

 

[Butch5]

God the Father and God the son

Where did Jesus call the Son God?

 

[Butch5]

NO, I accept the definition of Nicaea-Constantinople.
That's trinitarian.
That's Christian.

I don't think you do. Why not explain it for us?

 

[Butch5]

Not my understanding, the apostles.....they obeyed.....that is good enough for me. Why don't you explain your understanding?

You still didn't define the word "theos" or god. We need that so that we can be on the same page.

I don't think you want to know what I believe. I gave you a basic outline and an audio that goes into some depth on the subject, but you didn't seem interested in listening to it.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You still didn't define the word "theos" or god. We need that so that we can be on the same page.

I don't think you want to know what I believe. I gave you a basic outline and an audio that goes into some depth on the subject, but you didn't seem interested in listening to it.

You could just spell it out....would be easier for us......but then you might be exposed......

 

[Butch5]

You could just spell it out....would be easier for us......but then you might be exposed......

I did spell it out. Why are you asking if you have no interest in it? If this is such and important subject for you why is it that you couldn't spare an hour to listen to an audio. I spend hours a day looking into these things. I find them important and I make the time to study them.

 

[Free]

Oneness was invented in 1914 based on early writings those claim trinity was based on. and........ I really don't care. Go back, study your history. Trinity was around long before Baptist came into being.

And yet Christianity has never taught polytheism; that is pagan. Have an answer yet for my previous reply to you? http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...-and-does-it-matter.67346/page-2#post-1265052

 

[Mike]

Oneness was invented in 1914 based on early writings those claim trinity was based on. and........ I really don't care. Go back, study your history. Trinity was around long before Baptist came into being.

And yet you claim this is not a Christian tenet; that it is a Catholic belief is utterly nonsensical. What I've shown to you is that this belief is maintained by orthodox Christianity and is not restricted to Catholics.

As Civilwarbuff and others have said, it is the cult fringe that rejects the Trinity and holds to oneness. You are at odds with all of orthodox Christianity.

 

[Roro1972]

Where did Jesus call the Son God?

I do not recall saying Jesus called the son God but the Father is God and the son is God imo
John 1:1;;;;; 1:14;;;;;8:58

 

[atpollard]

Trinity was around long before Baptist came into being.

Of course He was! The triune Godhead is eternally existing, so the He has been around MUCH longer than Baptists.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Brother Mike]

Of course He was! The triune Godhead is eternally existing, so the He has been around MUCH longer than Baptists.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I suppose so.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I did spell it out. Why are you asking if you have no interest in it? If this is such and important subject for you why is it that you couldn't spare an hour to listen to an audio. I spend hours a day looking into these things. I find them important and I make the time to study them.

Guess I missed it; could you point to the post then?

 

[Randy]

That might be True Randy, but God is In Heaven, the Holy Spirit is on earth. The Holy Spirit is the Power side that takes the Word Spoken by God and makes it a reality. So they are separate, the Holy Spirit does not speak but what He hears, but they also could be one and the same. All I have is scripture, and how it works 100% exactly I am not sure. The Holy Spirit won't exalt himself, or speak of Himself. God will.

The Spirit is everywhere the mind of the Spirit wills. The Holy Spirit according to Jesus does not speak on His own but what He hears.

Jesus=>But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Paul=>For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Paul=>In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

God is Spirit and the Spirit is life.
Fathers promise =>in these last days I will our out my Spirit...