Is there scriptural proof of a heavenly language?

[Dave Slayer]

Is there scriptural proof of a heavenly language to be prayed in? I have studied that and I do not see where the Bible teaches this. I am aware of the "tongues of angels" interpretation of a heavenly language but I believe Paul was speaking in hyperboyles when he said that.

Aside from the "tongues of angels" verse, are there any other scriptures to support a heavenly language?

 

[Imagican]

Firstly,

the verse that uses the words 'voice of angels' doesn't even support 'heavenly language'. For the term VOICE is NOT 'language'. Voice is nothing other than the means that a language is uttered. NOT the language itself.

And NO, there is NO scriptural evidence of ANY such gibberish BEING a 'heavenly language'.

It's absolutely amazing how 'some' can attempt to alter scripture to justify that which they choose to DO that appeases the FLESH.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Cornelius]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men,(So its not a normal language of men. If it were, then it would say" speaketh unto men. It does not say that)


but unto God; for no man understandeth; (again its unto God we speak, and ......no man....(that means: no man) ........understandeth. In other words, it will sound like gibberish to man )



but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (A mystery is something that is ,.....well, kind of a mystery LOL so no man understandeth )

Oh and by the way this scripture has nothing to do with what the disciples did on Pentecost when they spoke in "other human languages"

Have fun

C

 

[Dave Slayer]

I would think angels in heaven would speak in far better languages than the silly gibberish spoken here on earth. :P

 

[Dave Slayer]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men,(So its not a normal language of men. If it were, then it would say" speaketh unto men. It does not say that)

but unto God; for no man understandeth; (again its unto God we speak, and ......no man....(that means: no man) ........understandeth. In other words, it will sound like gibberish to man )

So, if it's interpreted it's a human language, but if it's not interpreted, it becomes a private prayer language?

Chinese sounds like gibberish if there is no one to interpret it for me.

 

[Cornelius]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men,(So its not a normal language of men. If it were, then it would say" speaketh unto men. It does not say that)

but unto God; for no man understandeth; (again its unto God we speak, and ......no man....(that means: no man) ........understandeth. In other words, it will sound like gibberish to man )

So, if it's interpreted it's a human language, but if it's not interpreted, it becomes a private prayer language?

Chinese sounds like gibberish if there is no one to interpret it for me.

The Bible says that NO MAN understandeth. That means if you had one person from all the languages in the world standing next to you when you pray in tongues, not one of them (no man) would be able to understand you.

That is what the Bible says.

C

 

[Cornelius]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men,(So its not a normal language of men. If it were, then it would say" speaketh unto men. It does not say that)

but unto God; for no man understandeth; (again its unto God we speak, and ......no man....(that means: no man) ........understandeth. In other words, it will sound like gibberish to man )

So, if it's interpreted it's a human language, but if it's not interpreted, it becomes a private prayer language?

Chinese sounds like gibberish if there is no one to interpret it for me.

The Bible says that NO MAN understandeth. That means if you had one person from all the languages in the world standing next to you when you pray in tongues, not one of them (no man) would be able to understand you.

That is what the Bible says.

C

 

[Dave Slayer]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men,(So its not a normal language of men. If it were, then it would say" speaketh unto men. It does not say that)

but unto God; for no man understandeth; (again its unto God we speak, and ......no man....(that means: no man) ........understandeth. In other words, it will sound like gibberish to man )

So, if it's interpreted it's a human language, but if it's not interpreted, it becomes a private prayer language?

Chinese sounds like gibberish if there is no one to interpret it for me.

The Bible says that NO MAN understandeth. That means if you had one person from all the languages in the world standing next to you when you pray in tongues, not one of them (no man) would be able to understand you.

That is what the Bible says.

C

Unless it was interpeted, so of course I am left speaking to God since no one else can then understand me. Paul would rather have tongues interpreted so that everyone can be edified and I never see this happen. I'd think that if this was a legitimate gift from the Holy Spirit, to have tongues interpreted for everyone's edification, then there would be a lot of that in the Church. But all I see is people using tongues for their own edification and not everyones.

Interpretation must have ceased because I never see it happening. If it does happen, why isn't it being talked about? Edification of everyone would be a great thing, something to talk about. But why isn't anyone talking about that? Christians would rather talk about the edification they receieve when they speak in tongues than the edification that everyone receives when tongues are interpreted for all to enjoy.

 

[Imagican]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men,(So its not a normal language of men. If it were, then it would say" speaketh unto men. It does not say that)

but unto God; for no man understandeth; (again its unto God we speak, and ......no man....(that means: no man) ........understandeth. In other words, it will sound like gibberish to man )

So, if it's interpreted it's a human language, but if it's not interpreted, it becomes a private prayer language?

Chinese sounds like gibberish if there is no one to interpret it for me.

The Bible says that NO MAN understandeth. That means if you had one person from all the languages in the world standing next to you when you pray in tongues, not one of them (no man) would be able to understand you.

That is what the Bible says.

C

Yes, the Bible DOES say this. And if you 'take it out of context', you could certainly believe that it is saying this in condonement. But the truth is, IF you take it IN context, you find that Paul also points out that IF such 'noise' is made it is NO DIFFERENT than 'speaking to the air'. Now, of WHAT benefit could it possibly serve to 'speak to the air'?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes, the Bible DOES say this. And if you 'take it out of context', you could certainly believe that it is saying this in condonement. But the truth is, IF you take it IN context, you find that Paul also points out that IF such 'noise' is made it is NO DIFFERENT than 'speaking to the air'. Now, of WHAT benefit could it possibly serve to 'speak to the air'?

Blessings,

MEC

And THAT is the problem.
Tongues pushers seem to be oblivious to CONTEXT. The CONTEXT in 1 Corinthians about tongues is clearly to get them to back off and leave it alone and to show them that tongues is the least of the gifts and that we are to covet the better gifts instead.
How anyone can read that letter and miss the context is beyond me. Its almost like one would have to be going thru just hopping to individual verses that one could rip out of its context to push tongues.

 

[Cornelius]

Yes, the Bible DOES say this. And if you 'take it out of context', you could certainly believe that it is saying this in condonement. But the truth is, IF you take it IN context, you find that Paul also points out that IF such 'noise' is made it is NO DIFFERENT than 'speaking to the air'. Now, of WHAT benefit could it possibly serve to 'speak to the air'?

Blessings,

MEC

You know in context it really does not say what you are saying. In reality it says that the speaker is speaking to God and that no man understands him.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God;


So if we look in context what the benefit is according to Paul , we see the benefit is edification:


1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; (Good benefit !)

but there is a gift that is more useful to the church and that would be prophecy. But this fact does not mean we must leave tongues out of the equation.No, the Bible does not ever say that it simply states that prophecy is a better gift in church. Which it is.



but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

 

[Imagican]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men,(So its not a normal language of men. If it were, then it would say" speaketh unto men. It does not say that)


but unto God; for no man understandeth; (again its unto God we speak, and ......no man....(that means: no man) ........understandeth. In other words, it will sound like gibberish to man )



but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (A mystery is something that is ,.....well, kind of a mystery LOL so no man understandeth )

Oh and by the way this scripture has nothing to do with what the disciples did on Pentecost when they spoke in "other human languages"

Have fun

C

Amazing, you would quote TWO LINES of scripture that is so vague that one could create a DOZEN beliefs concerning it, and then IGNORE what is offered in explanation DIRECTLY AFTER.

Paul PLAINLY offers that ANY gifts offered THROUGH The Spirit are ONLY offered for the edification OF THE BODY. Now, if we accept what he offers, what is this saying about PERSONAL edification?

It is stating that: since it IS The Spirit that 'offers utterance', the ONLY way that what YOU have offered is POSSIBLE is IF The Spirit is IGNORANT of what it offers. Since it's NOT, then it WILL NOT OFFER 'gifts' that are NOT used as they are intended. And The Spirit KNOWS BEFORE the 'gift is offered' whether or not the person 'so gifted' will USE IT PROPERLY.

This means that a 'gift' CANNOT be 'misused or abused'. PERIOD. For The Spirit of God is NOT IGNORANT.

I'll tell ya what. Since there is STILL debate over this issue. ANYONE that is so willing, I challenge to a 'one on one' debate over tongues. This way, without it being broken up in pieces that are difficult to follow, I can PLAINLY show the falacy being offered and PLAINLY SHOW the TRUTH concerning this issue.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Cornelius]

Amazing, you would quote TWO LINES of scripture that is so vague

I am sorry you find them vague, but any first grader will tell you what they mean. It's really simple and clear.

You should not be thinking about debating, you should ask yourself why you are so against the gift of tongues. It is such a personal thing with you.

Those who speak in tongues have no problem with it. They read those scriptures and they understand them.
C

 

[Cornelius]

I was just thinking about it, those scriptures are not vague , they are in reality just not saying what you want them to say. They are directly opposing your view and you have then decided to call them "vague"

Here they are and the reader can decide for themselves if they are vague:

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

 

[Imagican]

Amazing, you would quote TWO LINES of scripture that is so vague

I am sorry you find them vague, but any first grader will tell you what they mean. It's really simple and clear.

You should not be thinking about debating, you should ask yourself why you are so against the gift of tongues. It is such a personal thing with you.

Those who speak in tongues have no problem with it. They read those scriptures and they understand them.
C

Oh no. PLEASE do not MIS-QUOTE what I have offered. I PLAINLY explained my use of them being vague. They are NOT when taken in CONTEXT. But taken BY THEMSELVES, I could make up DOZENS of meanings behind them.

Personal? Perhaps. But more than the possibility of that is that I feel that it's MY and EVERYONE elses DUTY that understands and accepts TRUTH to warn others of their folly and prevent such from encouraging others.

No, not true Cornelius. VERY rarely have they READ these scriptures and simply follow what they understand. MOSTLY they are ALREADY A PART of such churches and simply ACCEPT what they are TOLD that these scriptures mean. For I have offered OVER AND OVER now what they TRULY mean and YOU still deny the truth.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes, the Bible DOES say this. And if you 'take it out of context', you could certainly believe that it is saying this in condonement. But the truth is, IF you take it IN context, you find that Paul also points out that IF such 'noise' is made it is NO DIFFERENT than 'speaking to the air'. Now, of WHAT benefit could it possibly serve to 'speak to the air'?

Blessings,

MEC

You know in context it really does not say what you are saying. In reality it says that the speaker is speaking to God and that no man understands him.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God;


So if we look in context what the benefit is according to Paul , we see the benefit is edification:


1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; (Good benefit !)

but there is a gift that is more useful to the church and that would be prophecy. But this fact does not mean we must leave tongues out of the equation.No, the Bible does not ever say that it simply states that prophecy is a better gift in church. Which it is.



but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

HERE is some context for you...


2.0
Here we see that the gifts are distributed by the Holy Spirit and each person receives different gifts.
It is also made very clear that not all will speak in tongues any more than all are apostles.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit;
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles;
to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues;
to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
For the body is not one member, but many.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body.
And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

And God hath set some in the church,
first apostles,
secondarily prophets,
thirdly teachers,
after that miracles,
then gifts of healings,
helps,
governments,
diversities of tongues.

Are all apostles?
are all prophets?
are all teachers?
are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing?
do all speak with tongues?
do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(1Co 12:1-31)

Those who push tongues are wrong.
There is no other way to put it. They are WRONG.
They are glorifying the same gift that the Corinthians were and are just as WRONG as they were.


.

 

[follower of Christ]

Amazing, you would quote TWO LINES of scripture that is so vague

I am sorry you find them vague, but any first grader will tell you what they mean. It's really simple and clear.

You should not be thinking about debating, you should ask yourself why you are so against the gift of tongues. It is such a personal thing with you.

Those who speak in tongues have no problem with it. They read those scriptures and they understand them.
C

I posted and ENTIRE CHAPTER in which we see that tongues is the LEAST of the gifts and Paul very clear says to desire the BEST gifts, tongues clearly not being one of them.
YOU should ask YOURSELF why you feel to push the same godless fallacy about tongues that Paul has ALREADY exposed and corrected.


.

 

[follower of Christ]

I was just thinking about it, those scriptures are not vague , they are in reality just not saying what you want them to say. They are directly opposing your view and you have then decided to call them "vague"

Here they are and the reader can decide for themselves if they are vague:

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

[quote:29tdj6ay]

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

[/quote:29tdj6ay]
And HERE is a study Im working on that has a LOT of verses that are HARDLY vague at all.
You cherry pickers have what, two verses, maybe three ?
Sorry but when you rip things out of context it just doesnt compare the the WHOLE scope of information. ;)

Here they are and the reader can decide for themselves if they are vague:
======================================

The sign gift of tongues and it’s real purpose in the Church
By Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article

1. That tongues was mainly for the early church as a sign to the Jews, and also that the Holy Spirit had come.

2. That even though tongues was for the early church for a purpose, that scripture shows that it technically will exist in the church until we see Him face to face.

3. That there are absolute, enforceable rules pertaining to tongues to keep it from getting out of control as seems to have been a problem in the church at Corinth.


Supporting Evidence
As I work on this article I will add more and more, but firstly Im going to present relevant scripture as it pertains to each point above. Please be patient over the next week as I get this study together.


#1

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. (1Co 14:20-22)

#2

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (1Co 13:8-12)

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order. (1Co 14:39-40)

#3

If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. (1Co 14:27-28)

Paul very clearly shows that he would RATHER we prophecy and even says that he who prophecies is GREATER than he who speaks in tongues

I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
(1Co 14:5)

2.0
Here we see that the gifts are distributed by the Holy Spirit and each person receives different gifts.
It is also made very clear that not all will speak in tongues any more than all are apostles.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit;
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles;
to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues;
to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
For the body is not one member, but many.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body.
And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

And God hath set some in the church,
first apostles,
secondarily prophets,
thirdly teachers,
after that miracles,
then gifts of healings,
helps,
governments,
diversities of tongues.

Are all apostles?
are all prophets?
are all teachers?
are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing?
do all speak with tongues?
do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(1Co 12:1-31)

3.0

Did the gift of tongues cease?

I Corinthians 13:8 -
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

The rest of this passage shows that this is when we see 'face to face' which has not happened yet.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (1Co 13:8-12)

WHEN tongues vanishes, so shall prophecies...

Paul also says that we arent to forbid speaking in tongues,

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order. (1Co 14:39-40)

so I dont see evidence that they have ceased, but they clearly were and ARE for a sign for those who need to SEE evidence of some sort.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. (1Co 14:20-22)

They were a sign to the Jews, to Peter and to others, but thats all tongues really are...a sign gift for those who NEED to SEE to BELIEVE.

Paul also says this just prior to that last quote;

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
(1Co 14:20)

So my guess is that Paul would be telling a LOT of tongues pushers today to stop being children/immature but to be mature in their understanding as to what tongues was/is for.

 

[Dave Slayer]

Paul said that it is better if everyone was edified, so why don't see that happening? I have only seen that happen once in my entire Christian life. It was in a Church and someone was speaking in a foreign language and someone interpreted it so that everyone could be edified.

So why doesn't this happen more? My guess is beacuse tongue speakers care more about edifying themselves than they care about edifying everyone else. Paul didn't appear to be very happy about that and even wrote a whole chapter on it. Paul spent a lot more time talking about edification of the entire assembly than he did about self edification. I sure wish Paul were here today to step into these Churches and stop the chaos.

When was the last time you tongue speakers spoke in a tongue in the Church where someone interpreted what you were saying that so everyone could be edified? My guess is probably never. When was the last time you spoke in a prayer language during your prayer time? My guess is this morning.

I just cannot understand why no one is interested in the edification of everyone. They seem to only care about themselves and Paul said that is childish.

 

[follower of Christ]

I just cannot understand why no one is interested in the edification of everyone. They seem to only care about themselves and Paul said that is childish.

Something the self absorbed tongues pusher doesnt seem to be concerned with...anyone but self.