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Bible Study Is Water Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

The person who doesn't get water baptized, take communion, etc. is not saved because they failed to do that which makes them saved, but rather they are demonstrating by their disobedience that they don't have faith in the blood by which a person is saved. They are in unbelief. They either never had it, or stopped having it.
 
If we asked can one who has gone to Christ by faith and prayer but has not been baptized in "water" be forgiven of their sins by Christ Jesus, (and they are looking at the one God lifted up), the answer is yes.

Jesus is not bound. He makes a righteous judgment by "His" righteousness. I am not sure why any would not want to be baptized though unless circumstances prevent it like the man on the cross next to Jesus who was forgiven by the Lord.

I also believe infants and the very young who die apart from baptism would be seen by the Lord as "blameless" and their spirits would live.

It is God's choice whom he accepts into heaven.
But Jesus promised "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16).
he left unsaid what happened to those who believe but do not get baptised, but bear in mind that disobediance is disbelief and he add to the above "but he who does not believe will be condemned."
 
You're interpreting the scriptures you posted incorrectly. You are unrightly dividing them out from the rest of the context of scripture.

And you are infallibly interpreting scripture correctly?
You don't get saved by being obedient to be water baptized, take communion, etc. You get saved by believing that the blood of Christ forgives your sin.

Jesus promised "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16).
I think scripture trumps your opinions.
 
The person who doesn't get water baptized, take communion, etc. is not saved because they failed to do that which makes them saved, but rather they are demonstrating by their disobedience that they don't have faith in the blood by which a person is saved. They are in unbelief. They either never had it, or stopped having it.

This is a waste of time.
You ignore the scriptures I post.
You just keep parroting your opinions.
 
And you are infallibly interpreting scripture correctly?


Jesus promised "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16).
I think scripture trumps your opinions.
Baptism does not make you saved. The blood of Christ received by faith is what makes you saved. I am reading scripture correctly. ALL of it. Not just isolated parts of it, but all of it as a whole.

Ultimately, the person who does not get baptized is lost because disobedience is unbelief. They are not lost because they failed to do something that makes them saved. They are lost because they are in unbelief.

Baptism is not a work that makes you saved. No work does that. Only the blood of Christ received by faith can do that. That's what "righteousness apart from works" means (Romans 4:6).
 
This is a waste of time.
You ignore the scriptures I post.
You just keep parroting your opinions.
I'm not ignoring your scriptures. I'm showing you using the whole counsel of scripture that they do not mean that Baptism is what makes you saved.

Baptism is a commanded obedience, but it is not what makes you saved. Faith in the blood does that all by itself apart from rituals and good deeds regardless of how necessary and required those are rituals and good deeds are.

The commanded obediences of the Lord only save in the sense that they are the evidence Jesus uses to judge the presence of love for and faith in Him at the resurrection (Matthew 25:31-46).
 
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It is God's choice whom he accepts into heaven.
But Jesus promised "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16).
he left unsaid what happened to those who believe but do not get baptised, but bear in mind that disobediance is disbelief and he add to the above "but he who does not believe will be condemned."
This is a great answer. 👍

All is good as long as one understands that the unbaptized person is lost because of unbelief and not because they failed to perform a ritual or work that makes them saved.

Disobedience to the commands of God is unbelief and is not a failure to do something that makes them saved. Only the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin received through faith makes a person saved.
 
Baptism does not make you saved. The blood of Christ received by faith is what makes you saved. I am reading scripture correctly. ALL of it. Not just isolated parts of it, but all of it as a whole.

If you believe you are addressing ALL of scripture then why do you keep ignoring the scripture I post?

Baptism does not make you saved. The blood of Christ received by faith is what makes you saved.

We are saved by faith AND baptism - Jesus says so.
As to the blood of Christ:
The blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin (1Jn 1:7)

To him [Jesus] who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood (Rev 1:5)

It is through the blood of Christ that our sins are forgiven.
Jesus shed his blood by his death on the cross.
One soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed out. (Jn 19:34)

To have our sins washed away we must come into contact with the blood of Christ that he shed on the cross. How do we do that?

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? (Rom 6:3)

When we are baptised into Jesus’ death we spiritually come into contact with his blood and we are cleansed from sin. Baptism is the way we can do this. When Ananias told Paul ‘Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.’ (Acts 22;16), it was by Jesus’ blood that Paul’s sins were washed away.

You have no understanding of baptism.
Ultimately, the person who does not get baptized is lost because disobedience is unbelief. They are not lost because they failed to do something that makes them saved. They are lost because they are in unbelief.

Baptism is not a work that makes you saved. No work does that. Only the blood of Christ received by faith can do that. That's what "righteousness apart from works" means (Romans 4:6).

Baptism is not a work that makes you saved.
It is in baptism that God saves us.
It is God's work.

In baptism God renews us.
“..he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)

“Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.” (Rom 6:3-4).

Romans continues in verse 5:
For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection. If we are not united with Christ in his death (by baptism), we will not be united to him in the resurrection.

In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; (Col 2:11-13)

Through baptism we are brought into the new covenant “In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” (Col 2:11-12) This clearly links a “spiritual circumcision” with baptism, a link from baptism to the covenant, not through physical circumcision (as in the Old Covenant) but a spiritual one.

This is why we must be “born from above”. Jews were born into the Old Covenant. When we are born from above we are born into the New Covenant.

Converts to Judaism had a formal conversion process which involved undergoing the ritual bath (in a mikvah) and for men circumcision. For Christians last requirement was dispensed with at the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. But the ritual bath remained as baptism.

In baptism our sins are forgiven
Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. (Acts 2:38)

Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away, calling upon his name. (Acts 22:16).

You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; (Col 2:11-13)

baptism makes us children of God
For through faith you are all children of God in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendant, heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:26-27)

Paul tells us in Romans 9:8 “That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.” It is in baptism (with water) that we become children of the promise; we are made children of God.
 
If you believe you are addressing ALL of scripture then why do you keep ignoring the scripture I post?
Stop doing this!

I'm not ignoring the scriptures you post. I'm rejecting your interpretation of them. They don't have to only mean what you say they mean. They do not mean that a person is saved by being baptized.

What you aren't grasping is us rejecting your interpretation doesn't mean that we believe a person can skip being water baptized when all opportunity exists to be water baptized. What we're rejecting is your contention that water baptism is what makes a person saved, and therefore, that is why you can not be saved without being baptized.

Rejecting water baptism does not mean a person has failed to do something that makes them saved. It means, ultimately, they lack the faith in God that makes a person saved. And that is why a person who does not get water baptized is, in the end, not saved. It has nothing to do with baptism being what makes a person saved as you are claiming. That is a works gospel in which a person is justified (becomes righteous) by doing something righteous. Instead of what Paul says makes a person righteous—receiving the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin by faith, apart from works of righteousness (Romans 4:6).
 
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We are saved by faith AND baptism - Jesus says so.
You're literally saying God sees the righteousness of being water baptized and makes us righteous in return for that obedience. That is quite literally the works gospel condemned in scripture!

This doesn't mean we don't have to be water baptized to be saved when Jesus comes back. It means your water baptism is not the basis upon which God makes you righteous. Faith all by itself does that, because faith ALL BY ITSELF, APART FROM WORKS is what accesses the the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin (Romans 5:1-2).

Paul says Abraham and David are our examples of that. They did NOTHING to be declared righteous except believe God. That is Paul's whole argument. And you have to remember that part of the counsel of God when reading Mark 16:16. That way you won't make the mistake of thinking Jesus is saying water baptism makes you righteous/saved.
 
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Stop doing this!

I'm not ignoring the scriptures you post. I'm rejecting your interpretation of them. They don't have to only mean what you say they mean. They do not mean that a person is saved by being baptized.

What you aren't grasping is us rejecting your interpretation doesn't mean that we believe a person can skip being water baptized when all opportunity exists to be water baptized. What we're rejecting is your contention that water baptism is what makes a person saved, and therefore, that is why you can not be saved without being baptized.

Rejecting water baptism does not mean a person has failed to do something that makes them saved. It means, ultimately, they lack the faith in God that makes a person saved. And that is why a person who does not get water baptized is, in the end, not saved. It has nothing to do with baptism being what makes a person saved as you are claiming. That is a works gospel in which a person is justified (becomes righteous) by doing something righteous. Instead of what Paul says makes a person righteous—receiving the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin by faith, apart from works of righteousness (Romans 4:6).
You ARE ignoring my scriptures.
For example you made NO attempt to answer the points I raised in post #50 or in post #68 above.

Nor haver you explained why Jesus was wrong when he said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
 
You ARE ignoring my scriptures.
For example you made NO attempt to answer the points I raised in post #50 or in post #68 above.

Nor haver you explained why Jesus was wrong when he said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
Read the post I just made before this.

You're literally saying Jesus is saying baptism makes you saved. I'm showing you if you believe that then you contradict Paul's teaching about justification. Just look at Mark 16:16. He is not saying baptism makes you saved. He said people who believe and are baptized are saved. You twisted and misinterpreted it to mean water baptism makes you saved.
 
You're literally saying God sees the righteousness of being water baptized and makes us righteous in return for that obedience. That is quite literally the works gospel condemned in scripture!

No I'm not literally saying that. If I was literally saying that you could quote me exactly.
This doesn't mean we don't have to be water baptized to be saved when Jesus comes back. It means your water baptism is not the basis upon which God makes you righteous. Faith all by itself does that, because faith ALL BY ITSELF, APART FROM WORKS is what accesses the the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.

Paul says Abraham and David are our examples of that. They did NOTHING to be declared righteous except believe God. That is Paul's whole argument. And you have to remember that part of the counsel of God when reading Mark 16:16. That way you won't make the mistake of thinking Jesus is saying water baptism makes you righteous.

Look Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
 
I don't see an explanation of why Jesus was wrong.
Jesus was not wrong. What you can't see is the explanation I provided that shows us Jesus did not mean what you say he meant.

Indoctrinations are very frustrating to try to uproot and expose! They go deep, and they blind a person. You're the victim of an indoctrination. You have to be willing to see that I'm not wrong in saying Jesus did NOT say water baptism MAKES you a saved person in Mark 16:16. It says those who believe and are baptized are saved people. You are erroneously drawing the false inference that means faith and water baptism makes you saved. If you believe that then you directly contradict Paul's teaching about what makes a person justified/saved.
 
No I'm not literally saying that. If I was literally saying that you could quote me exactly.
You have been plainly saying people are saved by faith and water baptism.

I'm telling you that you are wrong and I provided the rest of the counsel of scripture that you are ignoring to prove it. Your failure to see this is exactly why the Catholic church was abandoned by the protesters. Justification/salvation is granted solely on the basis of having faith in God's promise of His Son.
 
You have been plainly saying people are saved by faith and water baptism.
No I didn't. You keep misquoting me.

I said:
It's not the water baptism itself that saves us. God saves us, but he does it in water baptism.
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you,..." (1Pet 3:21)

And later to one of your posts:
I haven't claimed that baptism itself makes us righteous. That is a straw man you have invented.

I've had enough of your opinions, false claims, half truths, insults and evasions.

I shall withdraw from this thread. I'm going away to visit family very shortly anyway.

Have a blessed Christmas.
 
It is God's choice whom he accepts into heaven.
But Jesus promised "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16).
he left unsaid what happened to those who believe but do not get baptised, but bear in mind that disobediance is disbelief and he add to the above "but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Not necessarily disobedience as someone on their death bed may call on the Lord and pass. Do you really envision the Lord stating I can't or won't forgive you unless you were baptized in water?

If someone proclaimed faith in Jesus but refused to be baptized, I would be skeptical of their claim.

I was circumcised and baptized as a infant. I had nothing to do with either, but I did have much to state to God later in asking for the gift of the Spirit and when I did experience the inner witness of the Spirit I rejoiced and was full of joy.
 
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