Islam – how well do you know the facts?

[Balaclava]

In terms of what am I, I like most people in the world considermyself to be what I was born into and I was born into a Christian family andChristian education. Over the years Ihave gathered enough evidence to convince me that there is not enough evidence(for me) to convince me Christ was the son of God or not. Bye the by I have studied Islam for the past3 years in an attempt to understand the violence and I have uncovered anabundance of evidence to convince me unequivocally that Islam is not simplywrong but is a fascist, racist, hateful, divisive, ideology. I have pursued my learning on Islamic for a (nowbanned from all of them) on left wing fora and philosophy fora. The Muslim ban me from their fora because theycan’t counter my logical and evidence arguments, the left wing (so called antifascists) need the existence of fascists to justify their existence and haveconvinced themselves that Muslims are a race and that anyone saying anything againstIslam is racist and all racists are fascists and the philosophers don’t care.

So what do the Christian’s think, what do they know?

This is probably a difficult question but I’m interested toknow whether or not Christian’s know Islam? I accept that the majority of Christians (and the majority of Muslims)don’t know evry much about Islam but I presume the members of this forum areChristians who take it seriously. So dothe members here know and understand Islam, do they know the evidence at theirfinger tips to argue that it is evil?

Why do I ask? BecauseI hear our politicians keep telling the population that Islam is a religion ofpeace that has been hijacked by a few lunatics. And, I hear Christian church leaders saying the same things – why dothey say that when it is absolutely not true?

 

[Navigator]

In terms of what am I, I like most people in the world considermyself to be what I was born into and I was born into a Christian family andChristian education. Over the years Ihave gathered enough evidence to convince me that there is not enough evidence(for me) to convince me Christ was the son of God or not. Bye the by I have studied Islam for the past3 years in an attempt to understand the violence and I have uncovered anabundance of evidence to convince me unequivocally that Islam is not simplywrong but is a fascist, racist, hateful, divisive, ideology. I have pursued my learning on Islamic for a (nowbanned from all of them) on left wing fora and philosophy fora. The Muslim ban me from their fora because theycan’t counter my logical and evidence arguments, the left wing (so called antifascists) need the existence of fascists to justify their existence and haveconvinced themselves that Muslims are a race and that anyone saying anything againstIslam is racist and all racists are fascists and the philosophers don’t care.

So what do the Christian’s think, what do they know?

This is probably a difficult question but I’m interested toknow whether or not Christian’s know Islam? I accept that the majority of Christians (and the majority of Muslims)don’t know evry much about Islam but I presume the members of this forum areChristians who take it seriously. So dothe members here know and understand Islam, do they know the evidence at theirfinger tips to argue that it is evil?

Why do I ask? BecauseI hear our politicians keep telling the population that Islam is a religion ofpeace that has been hijacked by a few lunatics. And, I hear Christian church leaders saying the same things – why dothey say that when it is absolutely not true?

The extent of my knowledge on Islam is a History of the Middle East course I took in last quarter. I understand that some may think Islam is a religion of peace. One of it's five pillars involves giving to the needy..no? I'd say that's a pretty peaceful practice to have at the forefront of your religion. That being said, the early Muslims took land and made converts through war..hardly peaceful. What I don't really like...even as a Christian are those that refuse to believe that the "Christians of old" should share any blame the wars between these two religions. I'm interested in learning more about Islam though...just to maybe understand it more....

 

[MarbleShooter]

Before I say anything I must ask, have you read the Koran from cover to cover?

 

[Bowman]

The whole purpose of Islam is to deny Jesus' divinity and the Trinity.

This is a real pity since the Koran proclaims both as Biblical truths.

 

[ivorhughjarse]

people do seem shocked that Islam wants world domination yet easily accept that is what many Christians want for their God..what about the unbeliever? Who's yoke would he choose?...if a free man was free to chose Syria or Iran or UK or USA, just watch which direction immigration goes.

I have tried reading the Koran but find it very difficult and uninspired It may be my culture but I didn't go too deep into the bible until I had Christ in my life and he opened my eyes. Now the bible is not like work anymore

 

[ChristianNationalist]

The extent of my knowledge on Islam is a History of the Middle East course I took in last quarter. I understand that some may think Islam is a religion of peace. One of it's five pillars involves giving to the needy..no? I'd say that's a pretty peaceful practice to have at the forefront of your religion. That being said, the early Muslims took land and made converts through war..hardly peaceful. What I don't really like...even as a Christian are those that refuse to believe that the "Christians of old" should share any blame the wars between these two religions. I'm interested in learning more about Islam though...just to maybe understand it more....

Exactly why should the "Christians of old" share any blame? Muslims invaded an conquered Christian lands for centuries before we fought back. Not one single battle was fought on land that wasn't invaded by Muslim armies. Before the First Crusade was declared Muslims had conquered the Christian Holy Land (which was a part of Christian Byzantium), Christian North Africa, Christian Sicily, Christian Southern Italy, etc, etc, etc. Our refusal to submit to extinction puts the blame at our feet? Please, explain how Christians are responsible for the conflicts that occurred when Islamic armies invaded OUR LANDS?!

 

[reba]

I know enough about a snake to stay away

 

[ivorhughjarse]

Exactly why should the "Christians of old" share any blame? Muslims invaded an conquered Christian lands for centuries before we fought back. Not one single battle was fought on land that wasn't invaded by Muslim armies. Before the First Crusade was declared Muslims had conquered the Christian Holy Land (which was a part of Christian Byzantium), Christian North Africa, Christian Sicily, Christian Southern Italy, etc, etc, etc. Our refusal to submit to extinction puts the blame at our feet? Please, explain how Christians are responsible for the conflicts that occurred when Islamic armies invaded OUR LANDS?!

the Christian crusades were not about honor and freeing land the Crusaders were thieves murderers and robbers killing anyone in any land that they went through..no different to Muslims of the day in that regard. Roman catholic history is nothing but bloodshed and torture in the name of God by corrupt demonic Popes and nothing at all to do with God...many of the Popes in their day are the most evil men in history.......it's not always good to side with such filth as them...even if we have the same enemy

 

[ChristianNationalist]

the Christian crusades were not about honor and freeing land the Crusaders were thieves murderers and robbers killing anyone in any land that they went through..no different to Muslims of the day in that regard. Roman catholic history is nothing but bloodshed and torture in the name of God by corrupt demonic Popes and nothing at all to do with God...many of the Popes in their day are the most evil men in history.......it's not always good to side with such filth as them...even if we have the same enemy

Please, you have no idea what you're talking about. All you're doing is parroting what the liberal media tells you to. The Crusades were called to support the Byzantine Empire which was begging from support from fellow Christians against the constant attacks by Muslim invaders.

This is a map of Christendom prior to the birth of that dog Mohammad.

This is a map of the same lands at the outset of the First Crusade.

The fact that people like you actually faults Christians for finally fighting back after centuries of "turning the other cheek" as their brethren were butchered by followers of that vile "religion" Islam is ridiculous. Islam has always been and always will be a murderous faith.

 

[ivorhughjarse]

the same as the Christian one that killed anyone in sight when it got there...dont label the crusade with all Christians it was a Catholic fight to rule the known world

 

[ChristianNationalist]

the same as the Christian one that killed anyone in sight when it got there...dont label the crusade with all Christians it was a Catholic fight to rule the known world

Only to someone who hasn't studied the era. Stop believing everything they tell you.

 

[theLords]

I have tried reading the Koran but find it very difficult and uninspired It may be my culture but I didn't go too deep into the bible until I had Christ in my life and he opened my eyes. Now the bible is not like work anymore

I don't think it's just your culture. I was very excited to read the Koran too, but then I read it and it was so uninspired and boring. I couldn't keep going. I suppose the deep beauty of the Psalms (and entire Bible) sets a pretty high standard. I was disappointed with the Koran! I've heard people tell me there are some beautiful verses (poetry-esq) but I didn't find it. I read it in two different languages but no luck.

Nothing compares to the Word of God :D

Psalm 113:5
Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high, Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!

 

[Navigator]

the Christian crusades were not about honor and freeing land the Crusaders were thieves murderers and robbers killing anyone in any land that they went through..no different to Muslims of the day in that regard. Roman catholic history is nothing but bloodshed and torture in the name of God by corrupt demonic Popes and nothing at all to do with God...many of the Popes in their day are the most evil men in history.......it's not always good to side with such filth as them...even if we have the same enemy

Yep. It was the Pope that actually approved the first movements of "Crusaders" to the Middle East. The Muslim empire at the time was so far stretched, but also divided, and the Christians saw that as their chance to strike back. I'm not denying that Muslims took Christian/Jewish lands and persecuted them, but the Crusades were not so good-guy/bad-guy as you seem to think.

 

[Mike]

Please, you have no idea what you're talking about. All you're doing is parroting what the liberal media tells you to. The Crusades were called to support the Byzantine Empire which was begging from support from fellow Christians against the constant attacks by Muslim invaders.

This is a map of Christendom prior to the birth of that dog Mohammad.

This is a map of the same lands at the outset of the First Crusade.

The fact that people like you actually faults Christians for finally fighting back after centuries of "turning the other cheek" as their brethren were butchered by followers of that vile "religion" Islam is ridiculous. Islam has always been and always will be a murderous faith.

First of all, be careful of your tone with other members, and read the ToS again if you don't see a problem with this post. Secondly, I agree with your stance on the violence of Islam, but to dismiss the actions of those who took part in the Crusade is to turn a blind eye on a heinous era of the church. Excusing what they did (which Christ had nothing to do with) is comparable to justifying the actions of any historical murderous dictator. This was among the worst atrocities ever committed in the Name of the Lord and was destructive to His Church in the worst way. :gah

 

[ChristianNationalist]

First of all, be careful of your tone with other members, and read the ToS again if you don't see a problem with this post.

Firstly, you're absolutely right about my tone and I sincerely apologize to Ivor. I will try to be more civilized in the future. I unfortunately have a fiery temperment and I often struggle to keep that part of me under control, I will try to be more mindful in the future.

We will have to disagree on the nature of the Crusades though. I am curious as to what people who think the crusaders were just evil marauders should have done. Should Christendom simply laid down and permitted Islam to grind the teachings of Jesus Christ into the dust? Should we have abandoned the Holy Land, North Africa, Spain, Sicily, Southern Italy, and Byzantium to their fate? Should we have simply abandoned all the Christian souls of those lands into the control of their cruel Islamic masters? While you can fault actions taken as individuals during the Crusades I don't see how a good Christian can fault the Crusades themselves. That would be like claiming the Allies were an evil marauding force in WWII because of the atrocities commited by allied forces (and there were atrocities).

 

[Mike]

Firstly, you're absolutely right about my tone and I sincerely apologize to Ivor. I will try to be more civilized in the future. I unfortunately have a fiery temperment and I often struggle to keep that part of me under control, I will try to be more mindful in the future.

Thank you for understanding. :nod

We will have to disagree on the nature of the Crusades though. I am curious as to what people who think the crusaders were just evil marauders should have done. Should Christendom simply laid down and permitted Islam to grind the teachings of Jesus Christ into the dust? Should we have abandoned the Holy Land, North Africa, Spain, Sicily, Southern Italy, and Byzantium to their fate? Should we have simply abandoned all the Christian souls of those lands into the control of their cruel Islamic masters? While you can fault actions taken as individuals during the Crusades I don't see how a good Christian can fault the Crusades themselves. That would be like claiming the Allies were an evil marauding force in WWII because of the atrocities commited by allied forces (and there were atrocities).

I agree that Islam was gaining power and taking land that wasn't theirs. In the process of responding, what the crusaders did was force conversion or be murdered. How is this any different than what we see wrong with Islam? Since that dark period in the Church, Christians have been forced to explain this as they condemn other religions and atheistic regimes, though I think the records show that these crusaders were not true Christians (most of them, anyway).

 

[ivorhughjarse]

Firstly, you're absolutely right about my tone and I sincerely apologize to Ivor. I will try to be more civilized in the future.

Thank you for the apology although to me it was not needed, but it was right for the unity of the forum....I do admire your passion even if it is in disagreement with me... too many Christians are lukewarm with regard to everything it makes a refreshing change to find fire in the belly

 

[Navigator]

Thank you for understanding. :nod



I agree that Islam was gaining power and taking land that wasn't theirs. In the process of responding, what the crusaders did was force conversion or be murdered. How is this any different than what we see wrong with Islam? Since that dark period in the Church, Christians have been forced to explain this as they condemn other religions and atheistic regimes, though I think the records show that these crusaders were not true Christians (most of them, anyway).

Yeah this was the issue. They weren't simply taking back lands that were originally theirs; they went on a conversion spree so to say and whoever did not adhere to it were murdered. Women were raped, children killed; there's no justification for that, regardless of what the Islamic regime did.

 

[justme1808]

Racially actually Islam is pretty diverse from Africans to Asians to Europeans/middle eastern(same race) to South Americans to North Americans. In the Quran it actually says color does not matter. It rarely speaks of color because it doesn't matter... Also in the book it says the Christians and Jewish people will make it to heaven also Christians and Jewish people are people of the scripture. Anyone who believes in GOD does right and believes in a heaven and hell. Non-believers are people outside of the main faiths Jewish Christian Sabbayan and a few other faiths are considered believers and people of the scripture. Also idolators are supposed to pay a tax not be murdered. How can one pay a tax while dead. So of course even people of primitive religions are supposed to be tolerated just made to pay a tax... Some Christians still say Jewish people and Muslims will go to Hell which I disagree with if they don't accept Christianity. Js.. Of course some Muslims may try to believe that too for their own gain, but they differ just like Christians do. The ones kill because one won't convert to Islam is either a reader of some Haddith or just changing their religion to fit what they believe. Most Muslims are Asian not middle eastern and Indonesia is the most Muslim populated country. A lot of ignorance seems to be brewing... If you don't know a Muslim or read the book and understand how it can be interpreted than you'll never be correct. The puritans were Christians I don't think anyone wants to use them as examples of what Christians are supposed to. Just using a group of Muslims shows nothing about what their faith says. Many people lie and stretch the truth.

By this train of thought prostitution homosexuals and people who have sex with others while married should all be killed as mentioned in the bible. You don't take everything by every word in your religion why would you do it with another. Btw I'm a christian myself.

 

[justme1808]

Thank you for understanding. :nod



I agree that Islam was gaining power and taking land that wasn't theirs. In the process of responding, what the crusaders did was force conversion or be murdered. How is this any different than what we see wrong with Islam? Since that dark period in the Church, Christians have been forced to explain this as they condemn other religions and atheistic regimes, though I think the records show that these crusaders were not true Christians (most of them, anyway).

yea then why do you give this benefit to the Christians and not to Muslims. I guess we can realize if you're an example of a good christian. It would seems we're all prejudice to other religions and never treat them with the same benefit as other Christians. But we're not all like you and neither are all Muslims the same. It seems there's a division as some read hadiths while other just read the Quran you can also perceive it differently just like with Christians. We have millions of sects and read some of the same books. Obviously interpretation is a big deal and just like Muslims can differ in what they think... Prejudging just builds ignorance I believe. I guess that's why I listen before I take a stance...