-It is Finished- (means what??)

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=88699]Jethro Bodine[/MENTION]. Elijah forgets that genesis wasn't written until by moses at sanai.he also ignores that if the jews did shabat then it would be mentioned that Hebrews did it and they wouldn't ask moses . we saw a man gather sticks on the sabaath and moses inquire of the lord of what would be done since that would be already a command of obedience and death for not obeying it. such as was the case with circumcision. the Lord sought to slay moses for not circumcising his youngest.

 

[Deborah13]

Yes you are missing it.

Adam & Eve were perfect! (before sin)
And they were 7 Day Sabbath keepers according to Gods direction.

No I was pretty sure this is exactly what you would say. I tend to read most of your posts.

Anyway, I think that I can half way agree with you. I don't see clearly that the Sabbath was change from Saturday to Sunday. In fact, that would be rather silly in my view. God rested on the 7th day, not the first. I don't think a scripture about Paul teaching on the first day and into the night would be enough for me to see Sunday as the Sabbath day. I could certainly be wrong though, I may be missing something.

Hebrews 4 KJV
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

What I see here is that God is saying "today" enter into my rest. Don't harden your harden with unbelief. God ceased from His works (righteous and perfect works) and we are to rest from our own works (attempts at righteous works, to earn entering into to His rest. So I see it much the same as this next verse, that says "today" in other words.

2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Blessings, Deborah

By the way, I love the picture of you and your wife.

 

[jasoncran]

by tradition adam and eve sinned on the first day of their creation.which would be the shabat.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

[MENTION=88699]Jethro Bodine[/MENTION]. Elijah forgets that genesis wasn't written until by moses at sanai.he also ignores that if the jews did shabat then it would be mentioned that Hebrews did it and they wouldn't ask moses . we saw a man gather sticks on the sabaath and moses inquire of the lord of what would be done since that would be already a command of obedience and death for not obeying it. such as was the case with circumcision. the Lord sought to slay moses for not circumcising his youngest.

If I keep hanging around you I might get smarter about this stuff.

Good job.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

by tradition adam and eve sinned on the first day of their creation.which would be the shabat.

Ouch!

...busted right out of the box.

That smarts.

 

[Elijah674]

So why not go on a killing spree, we are to love the creation above God, huh?

But never mind with whatever comes out of your mind. See James 2:8-12, and if ye love me keep My Commandments, + it was Christ in Acts who executed the open presumptuous sinners. (Numbers 16) And David in the same chapter has the Law of God 'More to be desired are they than gold, yea than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.'

But surely you can just do your thing huh? Obad. 1:16 '... and they shall be as though they had not been.'
And that is even called the Lords strange act.

--Elijah

PS: That was Acts 7:38

 

[reba]

by tradition adam and eve sinned on the first day of their creation.which would be the shabat.

One week of class the instructor was a Rabbi. He taught on Genesis ... His view was just as Jason has said.

 

[reba]

ar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandmentsis,Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: thisisthe first commandment.
Mar 12:31And the secondislike,namelythis, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[ezra]

It means the work of redemption is finished.

It is the fulfillment that Christ spoke about that must happen before so much as a jot or tittle could 'disappear' from the law. Now that the fulfillment, the finishing of God's work in redeeming restless, sinful man, is done the appropriate jots and tittles (and so much more) can indeed 'disappear' from the law, and mankind can enter into the true Sabbath Rest established by God from the beginning of creation--Jesus Christ.

The work is done. Let us enter into our Rest, now. The invitation still stands for all who would hear it.

Amen, amen, and amen.

amen amen The work is done. Let us enter into our Rest, now. The invitation still stands for all who would hear it.

 

[Deborah13]

by tradition adam and eve sinned on the first day of their creation.which would be the shabat.

Dah, again....I'm confused! How could it have been on the Shabbat if God says man was created on the 6th day and Shabbat is the 7th?

 

[Elijah674]

Yes you are missing it.

Adam & Eve were perfect! (before sin)
And they were 7 Day Sabbath keepers according to Gods direction.

No I was pretty sure this is exactly what you would say. I tend to read most of your posts.

Anyway, I think that I can half way agree with you. I don't see clearly that the Sabbath was change from Saturday to Sunday. In fact, that would be rather silly in my view. God rested on the 7th day, not the first. I don't think a scripture about Paul teaching on the first day and into the night would be enough for me to see Sunday as the Sabbath day. I could certainly be wrong though, I may be missing something.

Hebrews 4 KJV
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

What I see here is that God is saying "today" enter into my rest. Don't harden your harden with unbelief. God ceased from His works (righteous and perfect works) and we are to rest from our own works (attempts at righteous works, to earn entering into to His rest. So I see it much the same as this next verse, that says "today" in other words.

2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Blessings, Deborah

By the way, I love the picture of you and your wife.

And the Lord said...
Deut. 4:12
[13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
[14] And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
[15] Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:

And this was what satan hates! Dan. 7:25

--Elijah

 

[ezra]

i must be confused but what does this have to do with the finish work of the cross?

 

[Deborah13]

PS: That was Acts 7:38

38 `This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the messenger who is speaking to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who did receive the living oracles to give to us;

"divine words" or "life giving words, as living water"

And so they are in many ways but they can't save me, they can't redeem me.

 

[Elijah674]

And the Lord said...
Deut. 4:12
[13] And he declared unto you [[his covenant]], which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
[14] And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
[15] Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:

And this was what satan hates! Dan. 7:25

Deb, here is the Eternal Covenant that God penned in two tables of stone. He COMMANDED its
obedience. This is the only part of the Lords Word that He himself wrote. He wanted the people to have LOVE for Him was the reason! As David in Psalms 19 states!

It is the first table that PROVES our LOVE to God that is in the 7th Day Sabbath Commandment. Eccl. 12:13-14

And it is this Eternal Covenant law that most all want to get ride of, but it is the 7th Day Sabbath that is hated the most.
(again Dan. 7:25)

And it was Christ who stated....
Matt. 22
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So why not go on a killing spree, we are to love the creation above God, huh?

How is going on a killing spree loving the creation above God? Now I'm confused.


6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
13 ...serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.†(Galatians 5:6,13-14 NIV)


Where do you see 'keeping Sabbath' in the faith that Paul says counts toward justification? I see love--love for others--in the faith that counts toward justification. But you accuse me of loving the creation above God when I speak of faith finding it's most important manifestation in love for others, which you seem to think is something completely different than loving God.

So you say two things that are amiss:

First you say Sabbath keeping fulfills the law of love. You have it backwards--love fulfills the law. (If you can't see the important difference between the two I'll be glad to expound).

Secondly, you always see 'love' as being love for God, separate and distinct from love for others, a distinction that the Bible does not make. The Bible does quite the opposite and inextricably joins the two. Your artificial division of the Ten Commandments into two parts is false. It sounds good, but it is not supported by scripture. Paul said the ENTIRE law is summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself', not just six of the Ten. Love for others fulfills ALL of the Ten. So you misrepresent what the scriptures teach.

Since you don't mind suggesting that what I teach is of the devil, may I suggest that telling people that ceremonial worship is what God is leading his people into as the most important thing to do is exactly the false 'gospel' that Paul is trying to rescue the Galatians from?

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Simply put, the debt is paid in full. The word tetellastai (sp?) is the Greek word for that... When Jesus said, "It is finished." There was nothing left for him to do to pay the debt of the elect of YHWH.

 

[Sinthesis]

The sabbath is a part of creation. It was created, therefore it should not be worshiped. The sabbath shouldn't be loved more than God, or yourself, or even your neighbors. This is why we no longer stone sabbath breakers to death, which is what Moses' Law required.

 

[Elijah674]

Deut. 4 together with Eccl. 12 tells EVERYONE who will be saved. First it is the Lords Eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20

And the FINAL test will be who it is that is loved! 666

[10] Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
[11] And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
[12] And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
[13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Eccl. 12
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

And what are we hearing? All but the forth one Lord!
Dan. 7
[25] And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

--Elijah

 

[Mountain Man]

What I have always struggled with is salvation which comes through being a disciple of Jesus being a"free" gift yet we are told to"count the cost" if salvation comes through discipleship and discipleship has a cost how is it free.

 

[Elijah674]

Nothing disappeared from the Royal law of Liberty of 1 John 2:7! And John tells the why of it in the next few verses!

--Elijah

Correct, nothing has disappeared from the "royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself'†(James 2:8 NIV).

In fact, in this New Covenant, through the finished work of Christ on the cross, we fulfill and magnify all the more the royal command to 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

What has been made obsolete and, therefore, laid aside (not destroyed, but fulfilled in Christ) are the literal first covenant ceremonial requirements. They were but a shadow of the real worship requirements of God, faith in Christ, the NEW Covenant between God and man.

It is through faith in Christ that we draw near to God in Covenant worship, now. And because that's true, the old way of drawing near to God is no longer needed. Not destroyed, not nullified, not broken...just not needed anymore. Like grandpa's '56 Buick. Nice to look at and reminisce about, and even learn from...and still fun to drive now and again, but just not needed anymore.

OK:
Lets get down to the Bible Facts of Heb. 3, 4, or 5! and just see where the Lord changes His Eternal Covenant in wording!? It is your turn!

And you left out the FIRST COMMANDMENT!

Matt. 22:35-40
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second [[is like unto it]], Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

--Elijah

PS: And it is the 7th Sabbath that is questioned.. James 2:8-12 by the breaking [ONE} All are broken.

For starters, why don't you show us in scripture where the literal Sabbath is the Eternal Covenant. If that's what you're suggesting.

There is no command greater than 'love your neighbor as yourself', except the command to 'love God'. The sacrifice of worship is pretty far down on the ladder of importance from the obedience to love God/neighbor.

Obedience is better than sacrifice. In fact, your sacrifice will be rejected if you don't first obey.

Deut. 4
[11] And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
[12] And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
[13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon [[two]] tables of stone.

--Elijah

PS: All except the 7th Day Sabbath one' huh! Which is the forth Commandment. Matt. 22 has it stated...
[38] This is the [[first and great commandment.]]

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these [[two commandments hang all ]] the law and the prophets. !!!