-It is Finished- (means what??)

[Elijah674]

Christ as God man Adam in the N.T. was born of a woman yet was conceived of the Holy Ghost. He could use NO power that the first Adam had not excess to, to be the Second FAITHFUL Adam! (see John 20:17 for needing Jehovah’s acceptance)

SO: We hear that it is ALL FINISHED at the cross. But what was finished??

New Covenant??

1 John 2:3-6 has John saying it this way...

[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

(it was an extension of the Eternal Law of God)

And the purpose was to HAVE it indebted into ones heart. Deut. 10:12

[12] And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
[13] To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

And what do we hear?? satan has CHANGED! Mal. 3:6 states that God does not change! And Heb. 13

[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

We can see that finished has quite a different meaning. And it could have stated EXTENSION instead as John explained in the next few verses.

SO: What was Finished?

John 17:4 has Inspiration put it this way...

[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have FINISHED the work which [[thou gavest me to do]].

Another? John in John 19:30 says it this way...

[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

And in 2 Tim. 4:7 it is stated this way for All who ‘LOVE CHRIST!’

[7] I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: (against satan & his constant lies!)
[8] Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that [[love his appearing]].

And surely the Eccl. 12:13-14 Scripture says it all!
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

SO, this is the only question to be asked in the ‘CONCLUSION’ of the whole matter as is stated. Where/ever one is at in their ‘GOOD’ MATURING process has one doing right in the saving process!

--Elijah

Daniel foretold what it was...

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

All of this verse is not finished, but the way to salvation is. Christ came and paid the ultimate price to give us grace. Now is all finished or is IT finished?

This has not occurred yet...

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

If it has, we missed it. We are not of the elect and won't be gathered to Christ.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Missed this too, and this...

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So what was finished was the sacrifice for sin. There is no longer need for a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

This was finished, but the entire plan of God is not. There are billions yet to be born that will share in it. It ain't over yet.

But it won't take long to reach these 'billions' now will it! With Mikes contraptions!;) TV!

So the testing will end with who really LOVES their Maker?

--Elijah

Matt. 6:24's Kind!

 

[Elijah674]

Who of us will do as these 3 have done will be the final testing point! And if we are still as the 'tower of babbling ones' I question the real sincerity.

Dan. 3
[12] There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
[13] Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
[14] Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?
[15] Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
[16] Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
[17] If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
[18] But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
[19] Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.

And who loves the Lord will be the FINAL test. (and the last question to be answered) And James 2 tells it this way....

[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that [[shall be judged by the law of liberty.]]

And which of the one Law do most all break? this will be the one that will test all of us.

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Who of us will do as these 3 have done will be the final testing point! And if we are still as the 'tower of babbling ones' I question the real sincerity.

Dan. 3
[12] There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
[13] Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
[14] Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?
[15] Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
[16] Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
[17] If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
[18] But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
[19] Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.

And who loves the Lord will be the FINAL test. (and the last question to be answered) And James 2 tells it this way....

[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that [[shall be judged by the law of liberty.]]

And which of the one Law do most all break? this will be the one that will test all of us.

--Elijah

Paul said that if you 'love your neighbor as yourself' you have fulfilled all the law. You will not be guilty of violating any law. You will have fulfilled the ENTIRE law:

"14 ...the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”" (Galatians 5:14 NASB)

So, as long as we are careful to 'do no harm to our neighbor', the practical definition of godly love (Romans 13:10), we will not be guilty of leaving some part of God's law unkept.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" is the law by which we all are tested. People who love God show it by loving others. That is the definitive test of our faith in, and love for God. That is the signature of the faith that saves--the faith that Christ's finished work of redemption secured for us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So the testing will end with who really LOVES their Maker?

--Elijah

Matt. 6:24's Kind!

We know who really loves his maker by if they love their neighbor as themselves, or not.

Godly love for others is the test of saving faith.

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love (for others--see context)" (Galatians 5:6 NIV)

"15 ...what counts is the new creation." (Galatians 6:15 NIV)

We can tell if we have Christ's finished work of redemption applied to our lives by whether we love others with God's kind of love, or not. Things like circumcision count for nothing in that regard.

 

[Elijah674]

So the testing will end with who really LOVES their Maker?

--Elijah

Matt. 6:24's Kind!

We know who really loves his maker by if they love their neighbor as themselves, or not.

Godly love for others is the test of saving faith.

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love (for others--see context)" (Galatians 5:6 NIV)

"15 ...what counts is the new creation." (Galatians 6:15 NIV)

We can tell if we have Christ's finished work of redemption applied to our lives by whether we love others with God's kind of love, or not. Things like circumcision count for nothing in that regard.

This IS the LAST test! (did you get that??)
We are not there yet.

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This IS the LAST test! (did you get that??)

We are not there yet.

--Elijah

No. I did not get that.

I'm not aware of the Bible saying there is an upcoming 'last' test. I know about the Day of Judgment, but not some kind of last test.

I only know of the Bible saying that obedience to 'love your neighbor as yourself' is the definitive, or ultimate test of whether you belong to Christ, or not. That's the only 'last test' I'm aware of.

Christ's finished work on the cross has prepared me for the Day of Judgment. I know that because he is working 'love your neighbor as yourself' in my heart. The Bible says that is how I find peace and comfort in the surety of my salvation.

 

[Elijah674]

This IS the LAST test! (did you get that??)

We are not there yet.

--Elijah

No. I did not get that.

I'm not aware of the Bible saying there is an upcoming 'last' test. I know about the Day of Judgment, but not some kind of last test.

I only know of the Bible saying that obedience to 'love your neighbor as yourself' is the definitive, or ultimate test of whether you belong to Christ, or not. That's the only 'last test' I'm aware of.

Christ's finished work on the cross has prepared me for the Day of Judgment. I know that because he is working 'love your neighbor as yourself' in my heart. The Bible says that is how I find peace and comfort in the surety of my salvation.

The last test will be for the ones alive to choose between life or death. 666
Dan. 3
[11] And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth, that he should be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
[12] There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
[13] Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
[14] Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?
[15] Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
[16] Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
[17] If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
[18] But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Regardless of the details, it will be FINAL free choice made. Who do we LOVE???
Matt. 37-39.

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This IS the LAST test! (did you get that??)

We are not there yet.

--Elijah

No. I did not get that.

I'm not aware of the Bible saying there is an upcoming 'last' test. I know about the Day of Judgment, but not some kind of last test.

I only know of the Bible saying that obedience to 'love your neighbor as yourself' is the definitive, or ultimate test of whether you belong to Christ, or not. That's the only 'last test' I'm aware of.

Christ's finished work on the cross has prepared me for the Day of Judgment. I know that because he is working 'love your neighbor as yourself' in my heart. The Bible says that is how I find peace and comfort in the surety of my salvation.

The last test will be for the ones alive to choose between life or death. 666
Dan. 3
[11] And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth, that he should be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
[12] There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
[13] Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
[14] Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?
[15] Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
[16] Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
[17] If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
[18] But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Regardless of the details, it will be FINAL free choice made. Who do we LOVE???
Matt. 37-39.

--Elijah

Not sure what this has to do with the OP.

Or your favorite subject, literal Sabbath keeping.

 

[jasoncran]

yeah I noticed.

Or your favorite subject, literal Sabbath keeping

god will judge men and women for not believing jesus , and he will not judge men for following the shabat or failing to do the shabat.

 

[reba]

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.



I am wondering if you @Elijah647 Keep this commandment as it is written?
The stranger within your gates allows for water and electric power to your home.... Some how some one has a job keeping the internet operating on Sabbath, and you use it. Do you shut these off at sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. You do not 'go out' to eat on Sabbath do you? About a mile is a Sabbath walk I think you don't travel any where do you? How well do you really keep Sabbath...

 

[Elijah674]

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.



I am wondering if you @Elijah647 Keep this commandment as it is written?
The stranger within your gates allows for water and electric power to your home.... Some how some one has a job keeping the internet operating on Sabbath, and you use it. Do you shut these off at sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. You do not 'go out' to eat on Sabbath do you? About a mile is a Sabbath walk I think you don't travel any where do you? How well do you really keep Sabbath...

Yes, we see Isa. 58:13-14 as documented telling us what we will loveingly do.

And we are told that I can do ALL things 'through Christ' which strengtheneth me.

And that HIS GRACE is made perfect! + in 2 Cor. 12 it is said.. 'My strength is made PREFECT in weakness'.

So yes one will OBEY Christ God because of our loving HIM!

And when we fail at our agreement? (and being baptized is our pledge!) We find that John in 1 John 5:16-17 has a sin which is not unto death. And we go onward & upward to full MATURITY! (the following verses!)

--Elijah

 

[reba]

That is not a real answer Elijah You are a smart man, you know that answer was/is a dodge . I read that as saying, as much as you tell folks over and over to observe the Sabbath you don't.


I agree with your post #131.

 

[Elijah674]

Are you calling me a liar?? (read it again!)

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

uhm, well if I he lived in vero, he would be a sin. I will say the local sda cause my coworkers to sin as that church may have been read on Saturday. we do at times in the past read water and electric on Saturdays.its on the grid.

 

[reba]

Are you calling me a liar?? (read it again!)

--Elijah

Good grief no Elijah . How you come to that conclusion is beyond me.

Do you observe the Sabbath as it is written? A more direct answer could not be miss understood.

 

[Elijah674]

Isa. 42:21 is the way that God would magnify His Law...

[19] Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant?
[20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Just for starters: Did Christ tell one to leave the ox in the ditch until after sunset? Or was this what they all were hearing Christ saying in Matt.23:1-2...

[1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[3] All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Well how did Christ MAGNIFY His Law??

And the sick one?? Did He say to leave him alone until after sunset?

Again if one will read the verses of Isa. 58 s-l-o-w-l-y and prayerfully & ‘see’ verses 12-14 ...

[12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Then we hear that Christ went through the corn field and picked enough corn for the whole week, huh?

No way, to magnify the Law was to do just that! His church were a bunch of LEGALISTS. Again Isa. 5 says it this way...
Isa.5
[1] Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:
[2] And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.


[3] And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, [[judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard]].

(and see who they chose in John 12:42-43)

[4] What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

But the Problem was never with the doctrines! See verse 3 AGAIN!

The New Church of Acts held to the same doctrines as were taught by Christ here... BUT THEY HAD BOTH CHRIST AND HIS DOCTRINES!

That is how John DOCUMENTED the fact that of... 1 John 2:6-8

[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
[8] Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
But some still are in darkness & do not see how the darkness is past?? As one Baptist minister put it... Dr. E.T. Hiscox, (report of his sermon at the Baptist Minister’s Convention)
’To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years discussion with His disciples, often convening with them upon the Sabbath question, discussing it in some of its various aspects, freeing it from its false (Jewish traditional) glosses, never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during the forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated. Nor, so far as we know, did the Spirit, which was given to bring to their remembrance all things whatsoever that He had said unto them, deal with this question. Nor yet did the inspired apostals, in their preaching the gospel, founding churches, counseling and instructing those founded, discuss the subject.’

--Elijah

 

[reba]

Are you calling me a liar?? (read it again!)

--Elijah

Good grief no Elijah . How you come to that conclusion is beyond me.

Do you observe the Sabbath as it is written? A more direct answer could not be miss understood.

 

[Elijah674]

Are you calling me a liar?? (read it again!)

--Elijah

Good grief no Elijah . How you come to that conclusion is beyond me.

Do you observe the Sabbath as it is written? A more direct answer could not be miss understood.

What does the mean? Sarcastic???

--Elijah

 

[reba]

in this case simply means I bumped the post up.

Its ok Elijah, your answer is readable through the lines.... I wont bother you about it again for a good while....

 

[dadof10]

Look at all the translations for Psa 22:15 and you'll see the public acknowledgment of His thirst is in regard to the prophecy of that verse. It clearly wasn't in regard to the fulfillment of 'all' scripture because the resurrection was still future. So I take what was finished is what Christ had to do before His death on the cross.

OK, I see your point now. I look at these verses as a whole thought. It seems that "it is finished" is directly tied to "(to fulfill Scripture) said "I thirst". Once He took the drink, he said "it is finished", which tells me this was the goal, to get a drink, not to show thirst. To fulfill the Scripture of Ps. 22:15, all He had to do was BE thirsty, not actually take a drink, unless He was trying to tie Ps. 69 in there too.

"When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished"..." This indicates to me that taking a drink was the final act of something that needed to be "finished".

That being said, you could be right. It could be that He had fulfilled everything that was prophesied in Ps. 22 except verse 15, which was what He meant by "it is finished" and what John was getting at by "to fulfill Scripture". The text could be read that way too, I think. I like my interpretation better, though.

I like your symbolism even though I don't agree with it. Why don't I agree?

Because Jesus knew it was finished even before He took the vinegar. John 19:28

What was finished then? Right before he said "I thirst" He gave Mary to John, that's what the "after this..." refers to. If it was finished after He told John to take care of Mary, what was finished?

Vinegar in a sponge on a stick is a lousy substitute for wine in a cup.

Irrelevant.

...this fruit of the vine - Matt 26:29 - seems particular to wine, not vinegar...when I drink it new with you - Matt 26:29 - where were the disciples when He was offered vinegar?The cup of restoration was to be taken in God's Kingdom. Matt 26:29

I don't think the "fruit of the vine" at the last supper is the same as the "vinegar" here. When do you think this drinking "anew in my Father's Kingdom" happened?

Restoration could not happen before the Resurrection, therefore the cup of restoration could not be taken prior to the Resurrection.

Why not? The verse for the Cup of Restoration is "I will acquire you as My people and I will be your God." The sacrifice and death on the cross has restored His people to Him. As important as the resurrection is, it didn't restore us to God's Graces per say. The atoning sacrifice on the cross did that.

That said, I also don't believe the last supper was a Passover Seder, but it does seem significant that in a similar pattern to the Seder they left out the last cup.

I studied this a little (as time permitted) and I know there are two camps on this matter. I still need to give it more attention before I comment.