ezra
Member
neither do they
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
I didn't mean to imply every church, but that we need to be aware of what others are teaching us if it's truth or error. 1 John 4:1-6.
When Jesus said "It is finished" I wasn't speaking about His return, but only saying not all things are finished yet by Him.
RevSRE
Member
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
First: GOD said if you eat of the tree YOU WILL DIE!!
Second: Gen 3:15 is the first covenant , The first promise, THE “Protoevangelium, (First Gospel). It is God’s promise to Pay a debt HE REQUIRED.
Third: Jesus came, He said He came to do the will and work of the Father. The DEBT is what GOD had required, the death of MAN. Jesus’ Birth, life, teaching, ministry, and death, ALL HE DID, “It is Finished” is a general reference spoken in its proper time.
Please do not read specific details of doctrine into a statement where they do not appear.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
First: GOD said if you eat of the tree YOU WILL DIE!!
Second: Gen 3:15 is the first covenant , The first promise, THE “Protoevangelium, (First Gospel). It is God’s promise to Pay a debt HE REQUIRED.
Third: Jesus came, He said He came to do the will and work of the Father. The DEBT is what GOD had required, the death of MAN. Jesus’ Birth, life, teaching, ministry, and death, ALL HE DID, “It is Finished” is a general reference spoken in its proper time.
Please do not read specific details of doctrine into a statement where they do not appear.
Also, in re to what you said to Walpole in post no. 75...
I considered
Luke 9:21-22
21But He warned them and instructed them not to tell this to anyone,
22saying, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed and be raised up on the third day.”
I believe that Jesus warned the Apostles of what was to come, but they couldn't really accept it or understand what Jesus meant. Jesus even scolded Peter for saying that no such thing could happen to Him...
Mathew 16:23
However, I don't think they really understood everything until they saw Jesus alive again in the upper rooom...as you stated.
On the Road to Emmaus, Jesus told the two travellers that all these "things" were necessary to happen in order to fulfill the prophecies of the O.T.
The cross is the "crossroads" of the past and the future.
It fulfills the past, opens the gates of heaven,
restores God's relationship to man which was broken by Adam,
and frees us from the bondage to satan and our sin nature.
It looks forward to the future via the New Covenant whereby we're given the Holy Spirit in order to be our helper in our journey.
John 16:7
7“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. "
Jesus did split time into two parts.
Before Jesus
After Jesus
The above sounds correct to me.
Jesus knew the end was near...He wanted to fulfill scripture.
I'm not sure what the drink offered to Jesus was...
But I do believe it's to fulfill
Psalm 69:20-21
20Reproach has broken my heart and I am so sick.
And I looked for sympathy, but there was none,
And for comforters, but I found none.
21They also gave me gall for my food
And for my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
In my NASB it's starred and refers to:
Mathew 27:34
34they gave Him wine to drink mixed with gall; and after tasting it, He was unwilling to drink.
Two points...
I agree with the above...
although IT IS FINISHED refers to the work Jesus was sent on earth to finish by our Father in heaven...the work of saving mankind from the fear of death and sin.
I think I didn't explain myself correctly as to how some believe the finished work of Jesus to be....
They mean that THEY need to NOTHING in their life....no WORKS are necessary, in fact. works is a bad word.
This because Jesus did it all...so if Jesus did it ALL, there is nothing left for us to do but to "believe" in Him.
Of course persons that think this way do not know the meaning of the word believe....they believe as the demons believed.
Sorry for the bad explanation...
It just amazes me when Jesus said "It is finished" then hung His head and gave up the Ghost seem to think there was so much more to it.
John3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
The reason I highlighted vs. 20 is because the devils believed there is one God, but yet they hate the light (Christ Jesus), because the finished work of Christ on the cross gave a way for all to be redeemed of their sin through the sacrifice Christ made for all who will believe and come unto Him. There is a big difference between believe and coming to Him. Many believe, but yet do not come to Him as they are not willing to give up their evil ways.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
All good ....
I posted this thread to see if we all agreed on what it meant when Jesus said "It Is Finished".
I'm very happy to see that we do...it matters not that some think there is more to it than what you state...what's important is that it's UNDERSTOOD!
How refreshing this site is! (one can hear such weird opinions).
Walpole
Member
Please read the link again. The very first sentence is what you objected to in a previous thread. (Here is your post.) Here are the words of this popular Evangelical:
"A person is saved by trusting in the finished work of Christ on the cross, and not by bodily sensations and religious ecstasy." (Source)
Once again, we know the work of Christ was not finished on the Cross. The story does not end there. As St. Paul said, if Christ had not risen, our faith is in vain and we are still in our sins. (cf. 1 Cor 15:17)
Walpole
Member
I would direct you to this post of mine.
---> https://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/it-is-finished.78719/page-3#post-1503251
Walpole
Member
Indeed.
Indeed.
But when Jesus hung on the cross, He had not yet died, nor rose from the dead. Ergo, "It is finished" has to refer to something already begun and which truly finished when He spoke those words.
See my previous post here ---> https://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/it-is-finished.78719/page-3#post-1503251
dianegcook
Member
Can God abandon Himself?
I have heard that doctrine before, and I do not agree with it.
I don't believe that Christ had a weak moment.
As I quoted Psa.22:23
For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, neither hath He HID His face from Him,but when He cried unto Him,
HE HEARD.
That was the reason He came..
So what you're saying is this:
The sacrifice began on Thursday when Jesus declared He would give His body and blood.
The sacrifice happened on Friday.
The work Jesus was sent to do here was not finished until Sunday (the resurrection).
I don't have a problem with this...however, you do have to explain why He said IT IS FINISHED while still on the cross...
Think of this:
Jesus did what HE was supposed to do.
The resurrection was powered by God Father.
(so was it a work of Jesus?)
Can God pray to Himself?
WHAT was the reason He came?
We're discussing what IT IS FINISHED means.
I think you're referring to
MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME....
Walpole
Member
I'm saying this...
The passion of Christ actually began at the Last Supper, where the new covenant was instituted...
"Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, 'Take, eat; this is my body.' And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, 'Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.'" (Mt. 26:26-28)
"And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, 'Take; this is my body.' And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. And he said to them, 'This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.'" (Mark 14:22-24)
"And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me' And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.'" (Luke 22:19-20)
Here Jesus, the new Moses, fulfills the type and figure of the Mosaic covenant in Exodus...
Exodus 24 (The figure / type) ---> The hill, the altar, the twelve, the blood, Moses, the covenant, the eating the drinking and communion with God ---> Points to the reality of the new now being fulfilled by Christ ---> The Upper Room, the altar, the twelve, the blood, the New Moses, the new covenant, the eating and drinking and communion with God.
The Last Supper is what is consummated / completed / finished when Jesus is on the cross. The Last Supper and Calvary are one single event. Christ is both the high priest and the victim (Hebrews 9:11-12).
What difference does it make that Jesus had not died yet when He spoke those words. What Jesus fulfilled nailing it to his cross was what the law could not do in setting us free from the curses of the law as the law was weak in our flesh, Romans 8:1-6; Colossians 2:14. This is what is meant by Jesus saying "It is finished" then He gave up the Ghost and died and in three days God raised Him from His grave as He now sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us before the Father.
dianegcook
Member
I was referring to your post#33.
Don't you believe that Jesus was God in the flesh?
I do!
He could had wiped all those people out.
What do we know of another dimension?
Just disagreeing with some folks, that think ,that God abandon Him, as you suggested.
The reason He came here was to be a sacrificial Lamb.
That part is finished, also to destroy him that had power of death, that is, the devil.
Heb.2:14
It's not ME that suggested God abandoned Jesus.
I don't make up my own theology as some do...I don't have a PhD after my name.
This idea that God abandoned Jesus on the cross is believed by theologians that have studied the bible at length.
What they say is that when Jesus took on the sins of the world...at that moment, God left Him because God cannot be in the presence of sin.
I don't know what Jesus meant when He said My God, My God....
I do know what He meant when He said:
It Is Finished.
I agree with what you stated above.
He conquered death....
He broke the yoke of slavery to sin.
He did all He was meant to do from Genesis 3:17
dianegcook
Member
Yes, but even scholars are divided on many things.
You have to get more than one opinion, and let the spirit guide you to truth.
Peace
I agree. I had to leave a church...I know all about studying different opinions.
You and I are just getting two words from the cross mixed up...
I'm talking about IT IS FINISHED...
(even in post 33)
And you're talking about MY GOD, MY GOD.
Re the last, I DO NOT know for sure what Jesus meant. I don't think anyone could be 100% sure...I do think it's a matter of opinion.
We will be doing that "word" in the future, BTW and we could discuss more fully.