Going back and reading through the thread, the entire thread, more thoroughly than I did the first time.
First of all--my apologies, @
Withheld , you did provide more scripture than I thought. I'm personally not convinced that all of it meant what you were saying it, however...but others have spoken to you about that, and there's not much more to be said.
What I am seeing is that the idea of a pastor
is scriptural--and, yes, there should be elders in the church that are helping him and having responsibilities of their own, if nothing else. He wasn't meant to carry all that responsibility on his own. (Unless possibly the church is so small that he doesn't need much help anyway?) And the members should be helping out where they can as well, it seems.
Things sometimes have to be managed according to specific needs, and the Bible does not always give instructions on some things--which means there is some amount of freedom in running such things, IMO.
Are there churches and pastors than are only in it for the glory and money? Definitely. Obviously. Glaringly obvious, I'd say. That said, even the televangelists do some good, IMO--whether they are in it for their own gain or not, they do still manage to get the gospel out there. I know people, including my own mother, who say that God sometimes speaks to them through those preachers. Even if they aren't in it for the right reasons, God can still use them, it seems. God can use evil for good. He's capable of anything.
It's true that a pastor is not to be seen or think of himself as a ruler or take pride in titles--after all, we are all one in Christ. However, as has been pointed out, I cannot see how it's wrong to refer someone as a pastor or a janitor or whatever if you are describing what kind of work they do.
As far as whether he should be paid or not, I thought some good points were brought up--if the pastor is working so much so that he cannot hold his own job, he should be paid. And I'm fairly familiar with the scriptures teaching that a pastor should be paid. My dad used to teach Bible study classes at my old church, and he knew his Bible very well for a layman--he mentioned these
scriptures a few times. (And I know that he was not paid for teaching Bible study. He had his own business at the time, so he didn't teach it in the interest of confirming that he needed any pay for it or anything.)
I am seeing guidelines as to how the leadership should function and what standards they should be held to--and, yes, that is a problem in some churches today.
What I am not seeing is scripture condemning church buildings or necessary leadership function as to what is necessary for specific times and cultures. And yes, there is to be some form of leadership that has some form of authority in churches, because there are scriptures on how to deal with sin in the church--which requires some form of leadership, I'm pretty sure.
As to picking pastors and other needed leader from among the congregation--yes, this appears to be a good idea. And while I have little experience with or knowledge or how many churches operate, it does not seem that it's as rare in today's churches as you seem to think.
However, this is assuming that there is anyone eligible in the congregation. Often there is not.
Are there more practical ideas than having a church building that everyone drives to to attend services? Perhaps. (Don't ask me.
) But this is not covered in scripture, so it seems to me that it depends, or can depend, upon the needs of the individual church congregation.
Go about getting fellowship and edification whichever way works best for you. If that means attending a local church assembly? Cool. If not, seek out and pray for a home church.
But, honestly, I see no scriptural basis for condemning the whole way things are generally set up today for church--baring the things that we can both agree on to be problems.
As for me, I've been asking myself the questions of how is a church supposed to be run, is my church doing it right, etc for months, before I was in my current church. In the end, I decided that my spiritual needs were not being met at my childhood church. So I left. I am satisfied with my new church, quite. I love the people there, and the doctrine is sound. As for if they're doing everything to the letter, scripture-wise? I have no flipping clue. It seems so complicated, and people (in general, especially on this site, not at my church) not being able to look at the same scripture and come to the same conclusions makes it even more mind-numbing. I've come to the conclusion that as long as my spiritual needs are being met, then I should stay. If there is something I'm somehow missing, God has not shown it to me.
Anyway, I do get both a sermon and opportunities to discuss scripture in groups there. I do think, and that thought is strengthened by reading through this thread, that being able to discuss Biblical doctrine in a group of likeminded believers is important.
And that is all I have to say for now. I made my head spin enough for one night. lol
Actually, this might be where I just bow out of the conversation. I'm leaving on a nice vacation in a couple of days, and there are some things I still need to get done around the house before I leave. I already ended up puting off something I should have done several hours ago.
