What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

It shall not be so among you.

Eugene said:
1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 1 Tim 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
Click to expand...


King James and 'rule well', boy I'll tell you............

In the Hebrew text, if you look back a few verses it can be clearly seen that elders (older saints) were to be given honor as in respect, simply because they were elders. The elders that acted as pastors for the congregation, were said to be worthy of twice the respect/honor because not only were they elders, but the worked as leaders and that was deserving of respect.
These groups of elder pastors lead, but by no means RULED over the brotherhood.
 
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Heb 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.
 
Hebrews 13:17. Try the Greek language on it. My para: ' be persuaded by them that guide you. And yield yourselves( to their persuasive arguments) . Do smell the difference.

Go listen to 'The Great Ecclesiastical Conspiracy' then we'll talk further.
 
1Tim.3:6. ..'.not a novice lest he become arrogant and come under the same condemnation as the devil.'
This is talking about one of the conditions for being recognized as an elder. Do not allow a newbie to throw his wait around which can only lead to pride. Newbies need teaching and instruction in righteousness in order to grow up into maturity. Elders r to c to their education. True elders r to run as fast as they can from elevation and the pride that goes with it.
So lets look at Isaiah 14. Lucifer, instead of wanting to be a humble servant, wanted a higher rank, above the stars and the congregation. He was the first cleric, the first clergy. The iniquity in his heart was pride. God cast him down to the earth and his arrogant influence on man kind has been a disaster ever since unto this very hour. Need I go into history? I think not.
Jesus said that 'the Gentiles have rulers that reign over them, but it shall not be so among you, the brethren.'
The fall of man influenced by satan in the beginning was all about pride, lifting oneself above others which is contrary to God's economy, His original eternal plan. Adam and Cavah wanted knowledge which puffs up. They did not want the tree of life, which is life in the Spirit as we crucify that old man Adam, pride.
Diotrephes in 3 John pulled the same devilish dung when he lifted himself up above the others to take control.
Lucifer was not happy just being a servant and neither is mankind. When we were kids we played 'king of the mountain', just a game you say but quite telling of the condition of mans heart. I'm not advocating not keeping score in our sports games. I am saying that as born from above believers, we cannot continue in this church hiearchy mentality. We are all to be servants one to another, bound with the servants apron, ready to wash each others feet, not plan and scheme how to vy for that coveted position behind a pulpit...above the congregation. Read Isaiah 14 and see where this clergy system all started.
 
Withheld said:
Jesus said that 'the Gentiles have rulers that reign over them, but it shall not be so among you, the brethren.'
Click to expand...

Try to be accurate while reporting what the Word of God states please.

When Jesus spoke to the mother about the request of right and left hand positions for her sons, he corrected her. This correction was not directed against 'hierarchy'. Our God is a God of order. They were told, as you have said, to seek to serve. Yet, your posts seem to oppose all authority in the church, which is totally unscriptural; lawlessness is not of God.

"You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
Click to expand...

Jesus did not do away with the positions of authority and instead said, "...but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."
 
Sparrow, I don't know what else to say. Jesus said whoever wants to be leader must be a servant. He washed their feet and told them to follow his example. He told them not to 'lord it over His heritage.' I'm repeating way to much. Check: 'the Great Ecclesiastcal Conspiracy'.
 
I have no problem whatsoever with the last post you have made. Perhaps I misunderstood you. Did you mean to say that the Pastors, called of God, who serve as ministers and not as lords are fine? That's not the gist of what I had understood you to say, but if that's the case, great.
 
Poimen:shepherds, plural, elders...all the in the same. No pulpits. No podiums elevating one man above the many. No religious titles that spawn pride in the bearer of the title and causes the other sheep to feel like they r subordinate. Do u still agree.
 
I am reminded of an episode of the Waltons.. I believe it was Mary Ellen who was so very proud of her humbleness . John Ritter played the part of the preacher...
 
Check out Paul in 2Cor. 1:24: not that we have dominion/authority/preeminence over your faith, but r helpers of yor joy.....'

If anyone in all of n.t. History should be in the hierarchical order, it should be Paul.....right?...Wrong! This one solitary verse proves it.
 
Paul? Perhaps, but it is as he said, "Follow me as I follow Christ."

He did not exercise his own authority. That does not mean that he had no authority. I am convinced that, if asked, Paul would point to Jesus who has been given all authority.
 
Each member has authority in Christ. In all authority submit yourselves one to another. The confusion here is between the worlds authority, up one, one down, and the authority of Christ in each of us submitting to each other in humility, not submitting to the flesh but to the Christ in each of us as His workings are manifest through us. We yield to each other as God's particular function is brought forth in a particular believer, all ministering in turn, everything decently and in order.
The leg saying to the foot, 'we have no need of you', or the hand saying to the arm ' we have no need of you' is what Paul is condemning. Jesus is Head over His body. No other heads. A beast with several heads is what we have become. One Head, Jesus. All the body parts are to operate in their spiritual functions. 1Cor.12 and 14 .
It seems we've been functioning in the false paradigm of the deeds of the Nicolaitans, the clergy/laity system so that to many saints look at 1Cor.12 and 14 and ignore it with disdain.
 
Withheld said:
It seems we've been functioning in the false paradigm of the deeds of the Nicolaitans, the clergy/laity system so that to many saints look at 1Cor.12 and 14 and ignore it with disdain.
Click to expand...

First and foremost I agree with much of what you post. In fact, with the exception of the quote above, you have my full agreement and appreciation for succinctly stating the truth as the Bible has said. It is when you go further and begin to speak of the 'false paradigm' and include not only yourself but perhaps me also that my objection arises. What do you know of the churches that I have attended? Please speak in as much detail as you would like about those churches that I know of before you lump myself and others into one pot, apparently along with yourself and criticize if not castigate.

You should know that before I consider a church to be my 'home' church, with a single exception only, the question is asked: "Is there or is there not one body, one baptism...?"
 
Sparrow, It has appeared to me that you do not support the biblical construct for an assembly. So I assumed you never have been to a biblical gathering. If my presumption has been wrong then I offer my apology?
 
lol. at least I wasn't the only one who caught that. I was well attracted to Susanne sommers then. but well lets not derail this thread.
 
I'm not hearing from anyone. Maybe I missed it. I r getting old!
Has anyone listened to or read 'The Great Ecclesiastical Conspiracy' yet?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top