[__ Science __ ] Ivermectin used in New York Hospitals

[7thMoon]

Yet, you provide no evidence of anything. Do you think it is possible that for those for whom ivermectin supposedly worked, that they had worms and that was their underlying problem, making their bodies weaker and unable to fight COVID effectively?

While very possible, viruses could the least of worries from a vaccine which has organisms which make mRNA viruses. But there is not picture or ingredient label on the vaccine.

 

[Free]

The fact that the study is completely void of all foundational health or age of patients being compared one to the other , which you cannot dispute is the evidence .
All persons & their underlying conditions put forth as being equal for the purpose of politics, not medicine .
Just the way communists like all people being the same.
Except for themselves of course.
A study custom made not for the furthering of science , but for use by political hacks to promote agenda

I don't think you read the study. What Barbarian provided was the abstract.

"Patients

On presentation to one of the trial outpatient care clinics, potential participants were screened to identify those meeting the eligibility criteria. Inclusion criteria were an age of 18 years or older; presentation to an outpatient care setting with an acute clinical condition consistent with Covid-19 within 7 days after symptom onset; and at least one high-risk criterion for progression of Covid-19, including an age older than 50 years, diabetes mellitus, hypertension leading to the use of medication, cardiovascular disease, lung disease, smoking, obesity (defined as a body-mass index [the weight in kilograms divided by the square of the height in meters] of >30), organ transplantation, chronic kidney disease (stage IV) or receipt of dialysis, immunosuppressive therapy (receipt of ≥10 mg of prednisone or equivalent daily), a diagnosis of cancer within the previous 6 months, or receipt of chemotherapy for cancer. Patients who had been vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 were eligible for participation in the trial. Further inclusion and exclusion criteria are listed in the trial protocol.10

If a patient met these eligibility criteria, trial personnel obtained written in-person informed consent and performed a rapid antigen test for SARS-CoV-2 (Panbio, Abbott Laboratories) to confirm eligibility for the trial. Before randomization, trial personnel obtained data on demographic characteristics, medical history, concomitant medications, coexisting conditions, and previous exposure to a person with Covid-19, as well as the score on the World Health Organization (WHO) clinical progression scale.13 Participants also completed the Patient-Reported Outcomes Measurement Information System (PROMIS) Global-10 health scale, which allows for the measurements of symptoms, functioning, and health-related quality of life (scores range from 5 to 20, with higher scores indicating better health-related quality of life). Normalized values are presented."

"Statistical Analysis
...
The primary outcome was also assessed in subgroups defined according to participant age, body-mass index, status of having cardiovascular disease or lung disease, sex, smoking status, and time since symptom onset."

"Subgroup Analyses

In prespecified subgroup analyses, there was no evidence of a treatment effect with ivermectin as compared with placebo in subgroups defined according to patient age, body-mass index, status of having cardiovascular disease or lung disease, sex, smoking status, or time since symptom onset."

"Discussion
...
Major strengths of our trial include the rapid recruitment and enrollment of high-risk patients."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869

There is even a nice chart provided showing the population characteristics at baseline.

Maybe read the study first, then comment.

 

[Free]

While very possible, viruses could the least of worries from a vaccine which has organisms which make mRNA viruses.

"Organisms which make mRNA viruses"? You sure about that?

But there is not picture or ingredient label on the vaccine.

Why should there be? Does every other vaccine have ingredients listed on their labels?

 

[Barbarian]

While very possible, viruses could the least of worries from a vaccine which has organisms which make mRNA viruses. But there is not picture or ingredient label on the vaccine.

The vaccine has no "organisms." And mRNA can do nothing but make a specific protein; it has no way of affecting one's genome or doing anything other than joining with a ribosome and assembling that protein, after which the cell then breaks it down into nucleotides that can be used by the cell in its metabolism.

What kind of picture would you like on the container? Notice the case in which the vaccine comes has all FDA required information.

 

[Uncle J]

This is very much like a conversation I had this weekend with my oldest daughter. I posed the question....if a truly horrible person, such as someone who says they hate Jews or is an overt racist/bigot, also believed that COVID wasn't real (or was exaggerated), the vaccines are deadly, and horse de-wormer is an effective treatment, would you try and convince them to change their views?

We both agreed that our response would be to shrug our shoulders and let them do whatever they want. If they get it and have a bad outcome.....oh well.

(and yes, I also see the value in correcting the misinformation in a public form so others aren't persuaded by it)

 

[Consecrated Life]

I don't think you read the study. What Barbarian provided was the abstract.

"Patients

On presentation to one of the trial outpatient care clinics, potential participants were screened to identify those meeting the eligibility criteria. Inclusion criteria were an age of 18 years or older;

"18 years or older" lol
Thank you for making the case that by their own admission that outcome of an 18 year old could be compared to a 71
year old.

 

[Free]

"18 years or older" lol
Thank you for making the case that by their own admission that outcome of an 18 year old could be compared to a 71
year old.

Try not to move the goalposts. Your initial claim was: "The fact that you have a 27 year old "patient" in excellent health with covid is matched head to head with 78 year heavy life long smoker, afflicted with kidney dysfunction with covid is never mentioned." Yet, the study used only those with "at least one high-risk criterion for progression of Covid-19."

The irony is, it proves to be a difficulty for your position. You are essentially arguing that ivermectin only "works" on those who are young and most likely to survive and doesn't work on those who are more likely to die. Do you see the problem there? You're arguing to the cases that are most likely to survive without any intervention whatsoever to support your belief that ivermectin is an effective treatment. Either way, then, the study shows that ivermectin most likely doesn't work.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Try not to move the goalposts. Your initial claim was: "The fact that you have a 27 year old "patient" in excellent health with covid is matched head to head with 78 year heavy life long smoker, afflicted with kidney dysfunction with covid is never mentioned." Yet, the study used only those with "at least one high-risk criterion for progression of Covid-19."

The irony is, it proves to be a difficulty for your position. You are essentially arguing that ivermectin only "works" on those who are young and most likely to survive and doesn't work on those who are more likely to die.

There is no basis to say what variation in ages or what underlying conditions were compared with each other.
No one knows, and no one can say because they do not tell you.
Keeping the facts secret is just the way that snake oil salesmen roll.

 

[Free]

There is no basis to say what variation in ages or what underlying conditions were compared with each other.
No one knows, and no one can say because they do not tell you.
Keeping the facts secret is just the way that snake oil salesmen roll.

Does it really matter when every person has at least one underlying condition and the median age was 49, with the interquartile range (meaning 50% of the population) being between 38 and 57, and with slightly more being under 50? In no way whatsoever should it be suggested that they are somehow "keeping the facts secret" in accordance with "snake oil salesmen."

 

[Consecrated Life]

Does it really matter when every person has at least one underlying condition and the median age was 49, with the interquartile range (meaning 50% of the population) being between 38 and 57, and with slightly more being under 50? In no way whatsoever should it be suggested that they are somehow "keeping the facts secret" in accordance with "snake oil salesmen."

Yes,it does matter.
When there literally is almost nothing that cannot qualify as an "underlying condition"
Obesity vs arthritis, lung condition vs Migraines, vs etc,etc,etc,& etc,

In the case of two men of the same age vying for the same heart transplant, the transplant doctors do not look at each other and say :
" it does not really matter which one gets the transplant so lets just flip a coin"

The underlying conditions of each are always weighed in the balance in making the decision, and transplant recipients are well aware of these factors when they go on the list.
Medicine is led by the science .

 

[Free]

Yes,it does matter.
When there literally is almost nothing that cannot qualify as an "underlying condition"
Obesity vs arthritis, lung condition vs Migraines, vs etc,etc,etc,& etc,

In the case of two men of the same age vying for the same heart transplant, the transplant doctors do not look at each other and say :
" it does not really matter which one gets the transplant so lets just flip a coin"

The underlying conditions of each are always weighed in the balance in making the decision, and transplant recipients are well aware of these factors when they go on the list.
Medicine is led by the science .

What do organ transplants have to do with ivermectin not working for COVID? You’ve lost me.

 

[7thMoon]

The vaccine has no "organisms." And mRNA can do nothing but make a specific protein; it has no way of affecting one's genome or doing anything other than joining with a ribosome and assembling that protein, after which the cell then breaks it down into nucleotides that can be used by the cell in its metabolism.

What kind of picture would you like on the container? Notice the case in which the vaccine comes has all FDA required information.

But I find the FDA requirements to be meaningless. If it has DNA, it implies there are organisms, but that would make it totally harmless. Plasmids and viruses are meant to be toxins made bacteria and fungi. Instead of using "dead viruses" the goal is to use antibodies. Perhaps, this is why organisms might not be used. (I needed to know for sure.)

Yes, it is a conspiracy theory, but I don't see how a virus can replicate in human white blood cells how that they have a shell shifting structure which reminds me a little bit of an amoeba. But the viruses replicate well in fungi and bacteria cells, because they are the real germs.

 

[Barbarian]

But I find the FDA requirements to be meaningless.

The difference is, they actually understand the issues, and you don't.

If it has DNA, it implies there are organisms

The vaccines have no DNA. Great example.

but that would make it totally harmless.

You got that wrong, too.

Plasmids and viruses are meant to be toxins made bacteria and fungi.

Could you rephrase that in English?

Instead of using "dead viruses" the goal is to use antibodies.

No. Antibodies are made by the body in response to antigens.

Yes, it is a conspiracy theory, but I don't see how a virus can replicate in human white blood cells how that they have a shell shifting structure which reminds me a little bit of an amoeba.

Learn about it here:

How Viruses Invade Cells - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[JLB]

The New England Journal of Medicine has more credibility than Rumble on medical issues.

Not Rumble. It’s hospitals that are using Ivermectin to treat Covid patients.

That’s Covid patients who have received the vaccine and several boosters to no avail.


Ivermectin is working whereas the Covid Vaccine is killing more people than the disease itself.

 

[Barbarian]

The New England Journal of Medicine has more credibility than Rumble on medical issues.

Not Rumble.

Wrong. That nonsense came from Rumble.

It’s hospitals that are using Ivermectin to treat Covid patients.

Actually, hospitals don't; some doctors might. FDA does not approve ivermectin for COVID-19, but doctors can prescribe drugs for off-label use.

Ivermectin is working whereas the Covid Vaccine is killing more people than the disease itself

By now you surely realize that the COVID-19 vaccines have saved millions of lives. And no one actually believes that the vaccines used in the United States were harmful.

 

[Uncle J]

Anyone else find it odd to see Trump supporters spreading conspiracies about COVID vaccines? You know...the vaccines that were created under Trump's "Warp Speed" program? The vaccines that Trump urged his followers to get? The vaccine that Trump got himself?

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2021-03-17/trump-tells-followers-to-get-vaccinated-against-coronavirus

Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday evening told his supporters to get the COVID-19 vaccine, saying it is a safe shot that works.​

​

"I would recommend it and I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly," Trump told "Fox News Primetime."​

​

Trump, who was quietly vaccinated in January, added that "we have our freedoms and we have to live by that and I agree with that also."​

So does that mean Trump is in on, or even orchestrated, the conspiracy?

 

[7thMoon]

The difference is, they actually understand the issues, and you don't.

Then I need to undestand why they lie about their poisons.

The vaccines have no DNA. Great example.

But I suspect mistakes were made. lame example.

You got that wrong, too.

Yes plasmid toxins are harmful.

Could you rephrase that in English?

No. Antibodies are made by the body in response to antigens.

Whatever..

Learn about it here:

How Viruses Invade Cells - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Viruses don't invade bacteria cells. Bateria cells invite them in.

File:Conjugation.svg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Plasmid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Barbarian]

Then I need to undestand why they lie about their poisons.

But I suspect mistakes were made. lame example.

Yes plasmid toxins are harmful.

You didn't read very carefully. Plasmids are small loops of DNA found in prokaryotes. They have nothing to do with mRNA vaccines. And they are not toxins. A very few of them code for toxins or for antitoxin substances. But that has nothing to do with mRNA vaccines, either. The primary significance of plasmids are in conjugation, where DNA is exchanged between two prokaryotic cells, such as bacteria.

Viruses don't invade bacteria cells. Bateria cells invite them in.

No. Viruses exploit specific features of the cell surface to enter a bacterium. And viruses affecting bacteria are called "phages" not "viruses."

Perhaps you should read up a bit and learn about the things you propose to tell us about.

Whatever..

Or not. There's some entertainment involved if you don't.

 

[Barbarian]

Everything except the ingredients.

It lists the ingredients. You just didn't read very carefully.

Notice the link talks about how the cells are infected, but the label doesn't.

There's nothing infectious at all in the vaccine. There is in some vaccines like some polio and smallpox vaccines. But not in any mRNA vaccine.

Your link lacks any evidence for Malone's claims. I'm pretty sure I know why.

 

[Barbarian]

While very possible, viruses could the least of worries from a vaccine which has organisms which make mRNA viruses.

As you learned earlier, there are no organisms in mRNA vaccines.