Jehovah Lord a word study

[Free]

Then why do you object to having the I AM in the centre of the Trinity triangle?
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I don't. I've never said anything about that and you have never brought it up.

 

[Cooper]

I don't. I've never said anything about that and you have never brought it up.

Now is the time. So, seeing as it was the I AM who brought the Israelites out of captivity, are you happy to accept the "I AM" as your Lord and Saviour?
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[Free]

Now is the time. So, seeing as it was the I AM who brought the Israelites out of captivity, are you happy to accept the "I AM" as your Lord and Saviour?
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Of course. This has never been the issue.

 

[Cooper]

Of course. This has never been the issue.

That is lovely, and I thank the Lord. (Our Lord and Saviour being Jesus, the I AM.)

So what next?
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[Free]

That is lovely, and I thank the Lord. (Our Lord and Saviour being Jesus, the I AM.)

The triune God, YHWH, is our Saviour, with each person playing a slightly different role. The Son is the one who came in the flesh, in the person of Jesus, to die for us.

So what next?

Well, we could get back to the topic of this thread and discuss the I AM who also called himself YHWH, who is the one and only true God.

 

[Cooper]

The triune God, YHWH, is our Saviour, with each person playing a slightly different role. The Son is the one who came in the flesh, in the person of Jesus, to die for us.


Well, we could get back to the topic of this thread and discuss the I AM who also called himself YHWH, who is the one and only true God.

When people say the god of the Jews is the same God who I worship, I could scream, for these reasons: -

1) (Mat 23:31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. (They killed Isaiah by cutting him in half with a saw.)

2) (Joh 8:44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

3) They killed Jesus.

4) They horribly killed the disciples. (Foxes Book of Martyrs.)

5) Their god is not my God.

I am out of this conversation.
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[Free]

When people say the god of the Jews is the same God who I worship, I could scream, for these reasons: -

1) (Mat 23:31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. (They killed Isaiah by cutting him in half with a saw.)

2) (Joh 8:44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

3) They killed Jesus.

4) They horribly killed the disciples. (Foxes Book of Martyrs.)

5) Their god is not my God.

I am out of this conversation.
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If their God, the God of the Israelites in the OT and Jews in the NT, isn't your God, then your god isn't the God of the Bible. You can throw out the OT, which makes the NT impossible to understand, and your god is of your own making.

 

[tigger 2]

That is lovely, and I thank the Lord. (Our Lord and Saviour being Jesus, the I AM.)

So what next?
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"I am" is the probable mistranslation of the meaning (mah in Hebrew) of God's name. His actual name is YHWH (probably Yehowah) in the OT manuscripts. Any who honestly want to know the truth of this important matter would actually carefully read my personal study of it: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/i-am-part-1.html

Everyone should be aware that YHWH is the actual name God has selected for himself and used many thousands of times throughout the OT. "I am" is rarely, if ever, used as His personal name. See Ex. 3:15, for example.

 

[Cooper]

"I am" is the probable mistranslation of the meaning (mah in Hebrew) of God's name. His actual name is YHWH (probably Yehowah) in the OT manuscripts. Any who honestly want to know the truth of this important matter would actually carefully read my personal study of it: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/i-am-part-1.html

Everyone should be aware that YHWH is the actual name God has selected for himself and used many thousands of times throughout the OT. "I am" is rarely, if ever, used as His personal name. See Ex. 3:15, for example.

I believe Jesus who never lied. His life is an example to all, especially when compared with the mass killings in the Old Testament carried out in the name of YHWH in whom there is no life.
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[Cooper]

Word study continued:
The Israelites called idols like the golden calf "LORD," the same as they did with the pantheon of all their false gods, but we know that there can only be one true God. See below.

Isa 60:16 thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isa_44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself.

Isa_47:4 As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.

Isa_48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Isa_49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isa_49:7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship.

Isa_54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Isa_59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Isa_60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isa_63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearance of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
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[Highway54]

The I AM is eternal God. His name on earth was Jesus.

8:58 The Lord Jesus here made another clear claim to be God. He did not say, “Before Abraham was, I was.” That might simply mean that He came into existence before Abraham. Rather, He used the Name of God: I AM. The Lord Jesus had dwelt with God the Father from all eternity. There was never a time when He came into being, or when He did not exist. Therefore He said, “Before Abraham was, I AM.”

(Believers Bible)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I AM: This is the third time in this chapter Jesus uses the phrase I AM(Joh_8:24; Joh_8:28), and here in Joh_8:58. The ancient Greek phrase is ego emi, which was the same term used in the Greek translation of the Old Testament in Jesus’ day to describe the Voice from the burning bush. “All the previous lightning flashes pale into significance before the blaze of this passage.” (Barclay)

ii. In using the phrase I AM (Joh_8:24; Joh_8:58; Joh_13:19) Jesus used a clear divine title belonging to Yahweh alone (Exo_3:13-14, Deu_32:39, Isa_43:10) and was interpreted as such by Jesus’ listeners (Joh_8:58-59). “I AM was recognized by the Jews as a title of deity.” (Tenney)

iii. “Before Abraham came into existence I am, eternally existent… No stronger affirmation of pre-existence occurs.” (Dods)

iv. “If Jesus’ claim was not well founded, then his words were openly blasphemous: he was using language that only God could use.” (Bruce).

(David Guzik)

No sir, God's name is Jehovah in English, Jesus is God's son. He made God's name known, and his disciples make it known today. God's name is known earth wide today. Best worship the God Jesus worshipped and served, if you want salvation anyway.

 

[Free]

I believe Jesus who never lied. His life is an example to all, especially when compared with the mass killings in the Old Testament carried out in the name of YHWH in whom there is no life.
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Word study continued:
The Israelites called idols like the golden calf "LORD," the same as they did with the pantheon of all their false gods, but we know that there can only be one true God. See below.

Isa 60:16 thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isa_44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself.

Isa_47:4 As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.

Isa_48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Isa_49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isa_49:7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship.

Isa_54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Isa_59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Isa_60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isa_63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearance of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
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First you say there is no life in YHWH but then you provide verses which show YHWH is Saviour and Redeemer. Which is it?

 

[Cooper]

No sir, God's name is Jehovah in English, Jesus is God's son. He made God's name known, and his disciples make it known today. God's name is known earth wide today. Best worship the God Jesus worshipped and served, if you want salvation anyway.

Correct. God's name for the Jews is YHWH or Jehovah, but Free says it is Lord. However, Lord is what they called the Golden Calf and other idols. He brags that the name Lord, occurs over 7,000 times in the Old Testament, which is evidence of what big idol worshippers they were, far, far away from the true God.
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[Free]

Correct. God's name for the Jews is YHWH or Jehovah, but Free says it is Lord. However, Lord is what they called the Golden Calf and other idols.

There are two misleading statements here. First, you don't seem to understand what Highway54 is saying. He is saying (somewhat incorrectly) that the one true God's name is Jehovah (YHWH in Hebrew). You have clearly denied that Yahweh (YHWH) is the one true God, claiming that he is the false God that the Israelites worshiped. Starting here: https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-28#post-1778645

Second, that actually is not what I said. What I clearly said was that "I worship YHWH. All Christians do. The NT reveals more about YHWH, namely, that he is the triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." I then pointed out that "The I AM is YHWH" and that "'LORD' is YHWH, as it (almost) always is in English translations." That is all starting here: https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-28#post-1778735

Do you remember that I asked you if the OT was originally written in Hebrew and you didn't want to answer? In the Hebrew language, the one true God who says he is the I AM, says is name is YHWH. That is his name in Hebrew. But we aren't reading Hebrew, are we? You and I are reading English, and because the name is unpronounceable and there is no direct translation, English translators use "LORD" in place of "YHWH."

He brags that the name Lord, occurs over 7,000 times in the Old Testament, which is evidence of what big idol worshippers they were, far, far away from the true God.
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I am not at all bragging; I'm simply stating the fact that YHWH ("LORD," Yahweh, or Jehovah in English) is used over 6,500 times. That is the name of the one true God.

It's all repeated here: https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-32#post-1779553

Your entire position rests on the only instance in the entire Bible where God says he is I AM, but then ignores the very next verse where he says his name is YHWH.

The one true God's name, the one God from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation, is YHWH, sometimes translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, but often is just LORD. They all refer to the one true God who was and is the God of the Israelites and is the God of all true Christians. To deny that is to deny the God of the Bible.

 

[Cooper]

There are two misleading statements here. First, you don't seem to understand what Highway54 is saying. He is saying (somewhat incorrectly) that the one true God's name is Jehovah (YHWH in Hebrew). You have clearly denied that Yahweh (YHWH) is the one true God, claiming that he is the false God that the Israelites worshiped. Starting here: https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-28#post-1778645

Second, that actually is not what I said. What I clearly said was that "I worship YHWH. All Christians do. The NT reveals more about YHWH, namely, that he is the triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." I then pointed out that "The I AM is YHWH" and that "'LORD' is YHWH, as it (almost) always is in English translations." That is all starting here: https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-28#post-1778735

Do you remember that I asked you if the OT was originally written in Hebrew and you didn't want to answer? In the Hebrew language, the one true God who says he is the I AM, says is name is YHWH. That is his name in Hebrew. But we aren't reading Hebrew, are we? You and I are reading English, and because the name is unpronounceable and there is no direct translation, English translators use "LORD" in place of "YHWH."


I am not at all bragging; I'm simply stating the fact that YHWH ("LORD," Yahweh, or Jehovah in English) is used over 6,500 times. That is the name of the one true God.

It's all repeated here: https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-32#post-1779553

Your entire position rests on the only instance in the entire Bible where God says he is I AM, but then ignores the very next verse where he says his name is YHWH.

The one true God's name, the one God from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation, is YHWH, sometimes translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, but often is just LORD. They all refer to the one true God who was and is the God of the Israelites and is the God of all true Christians. To deny that is to deny the God of the Bible.

You need to wipe the slate clean and start over again. Search out every occurrence of the word LORD, and while you do that, remember both graven images (Baal's) and the true God (YHWH) were both called LORD.

After you have identified every occurrence of the word LORD, work out the true LORD, from the false LORD.

The true Lord will be identified with the words 'Saviour,' 'Redeemer', 'mighty One of Jacob' or something similar, while the false gods, the idols like the golden calf, and other graven images or sacred trees like Asherah poles, will simply be LORD. Then report back to me with your findings.
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[Free]

You need to wipe the slate clean and start over again. Search out every occurrence of the word LORD, and while you do that, remember both graven images (Baal's)

Where?

and the true God (YHWH) were both called LORD.

Only the one true God is YHWH is called LORD. As I pointed out, that is what most translations use to translate YHWH.

After you have identified every occurrence of the word LORD, work out the true LORD, from the false LORD.

The true Lord will be identified with the words 'Saviour,' 'Redeemer', 'mighty One of Jacob' or something similar, while the false gods, the idols, will simply be LORD. Then report back.
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This just isn't the case, at all. There is no "true LORD" and a "false LORD." LORD always, always refers to the one true God. This is very basic Bible knowledge.

 

[Cooper]

Where?


Only the one true God is YHWH is called LORD. As I pointed out, that is what most translations use to translate YHWH.


This just isn't the case, at all. There is no "true LORD" and a "false LORD." LORD always, always refers to the one true God. This is very basic Bible knowledge.

You say,"Only the one true God is YHWH is called LORD."

The golden calf is called LORD.
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[Free]

You say,"Only the one true God is YHWH is called LORD."

The golden calf is called LORD.
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I’ve already explained that, and it doesn’t mean that the golden calf actually was the LORD, nor does it mean that the Israelites worshiped a false god they called YHWH. There is only one YHWH in the Bible from beginning to end and it is the one true God.

Exo 32:4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” (ESV)

Since, as you have said, I AM brought the Israelites out of Egypt, that means the golden calf is I AM, according to your reasoning.

Do you see the problem with your reasoning?

 

[Cooper]

I’ve already explained that, and it doesn’t mean that the golden calf actually was the LORD, nor does it mean that the Israelites worshiped a false god they called YHWH. There is only one YHWH in the Bible from beginning to end and it is the one true God.

Exo 32:4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” (ESV)

Since, as you have said, I AM brought the Israelites out of Egypt, that means the golden calf is I AM, according to your reasoning.

Do you see the problem with your reasoning?

“These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!”

Polytheistic!
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[Cooper]

I’ve already explained that, and it doesn’t mean that the golden calf actually was the LORD, nor does it mean that the Israelites worshiped a false god they called YHWH. There is only one YHWH in the Bible from beginning to end and it is the one true God.

Exo 32:4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” (ESV)

Since, as you have said, I AM brought the Israelites out of Egypt, that means the golden calf is I AM, according to your reasoning.

Do you see the problem with your reasoning?

The I AM is not YHWH.

The Jews have a false god.
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